Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple Researching Ways to Use iPhone Camera to Detect Childhood Autism

If this story was about Google doing this instead of Apple, just imagine what the comments would be like in this thread!
 
  • Like
Reactions: WLSON
ruka.snow said:
When having your child diagnosed would you not prefer the doctor give you some device or an app that you can hand over to your bairn and have them watch some videos in the comfort of your own home then click a link to share that data with said doctor so they can review before inviting you in for a rather scary and invasive appointment?

I mean, children also behave differently depending on the environment they are in. I was diagnosed based on observation in school followed by the learning support teacher taking me out to 'help with my reading'. My behaviour at home was never once questioned and my mum didn't know bugger all about it until the school had already done a full investigation.
Click to expand...

Why is Apple getting involved though? Medical researchers have been perfectly capable of developing their own methods and codes for decades without the direct involvement of the particular multinational company that happens to manufacture a device they use. Of course Apple might be doing this for purely altruistic reasons. Though that does go against the “Apple is a business” argument rolled out every time Apple puts profit first. On the other hand there are numerous less favourable reasons Apple could be doing this, ranging from tax breaks to advertising to surveillance.
 
Jim Lahey said:
It‘s not a soap box. It’s an opinion. Already said you don’t have to agree.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your permission to disagree. As you can see, I'm doing exactly that. And soap boxes have everything to do with opinions. It just gets tiring every time a news story like this comes out, people start preaching about how Apple is invading their privacy, when the reality is it's something completely optional that they don't have to participate in.
 
davidako said:
Why is Apple getting involved though? Medical researchers have been perfectly capable of developing their own methods and codes for decades without the direct involvement of the particular multinational company that happens to manufacture a device they use. Of course Apple might be doing this for purely altruistic reasons. Though that does go against the “Apple is a business” argument rolled out every time Apple puts profit first. On the other hand there are numerous less favourable reasons Apple could be doing this, ranging from tax breaks to advertising to surveillance.
Click to expand...

The answers to why Apple are involved are in the very opening post of this topic. Apple have worked with universities before to develop or assist in the development of new technologies before, this isn't any different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neuropsychguy and araadt
usagora said:
Thanks for your permission to disagree. As you can see, I'm doing exactly that. And soap boxes have everything to do with opinions. It just gets tiring every time a news story like this comes out, people start preaching about how Apple is invading their privacy, when the reality is it's something completely optional that they don't have to participate in.
Click to expand...

I have already explained it is the principle of the technology I object to. It will not be limited to Apple iPhones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jakuta
Jim Lahey said:
I have already explained it is the principle of the technology I object to. It will not be limited to Apple iPhones.
Click to expand...

I don't care if it's on every phone in the universe as long as no one's forced to use it (which would be silly anyway).
 
ruka.snow said:
When having your child diagnosed would you not prefer the doctor give you some device or an app that you can hand over to your bairn and have them watch some videos in the comfort of your own home then click a link to share that data with said doctor so they can review before inviting you in for a rather scary and invasive appointment?

I mean, children also behave differently depending on the environment they are in. I was diagnosed based on observation in school followed by the learning support teacher taking me out to 'help with my reading'. My behaviour at home was never once questioned and my mum didn't know bugger all about it until the school had already done a full investigation.
Click to expand...
If the phone were to exclusively used as a diagnostic tool, I would probably agree with you, I do however not read the article as such.
I was reading it in the context of your child is using an iPhone as a “toy” and we also observe behavior - I might be wrong about that but my comment was in that context.
For us it’s about 20 or so years ago and it was a multi months experience …
As I said, I find this intriguing - when used in the “right” context
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jakuta
jz0309 said:
If the phone were to exclusively used as a diagnostic tool, I would probably agree with you, I do however not read the article as such.
I was reading it in the context of your child is using an iPhone as a “toy” and we also observe behavior - I might be wrong about that but my comment was in that context.
For us it’s about 20 or so years ago and it was a multi months experience …
As I said, I find this intriguing - when used in the “right” context
Click to expand...

Nothing suggests in the article or otherwise that the phone is going to just switch on the camera and monitor children's expressions. It suggests it'll be while watching videos so ether a API(most likely) someone has to integrate with or a built in app(very unlikely) and then you turn the app on and show it to your toddler or ask your three year old if they want to watch some videos. Presumably some sort of show starts and the sensor monitor the bairns expressions to see if they make eye contact with the hosts or the puppets or if they hyper focus on some background element that has all the spectrum attention grabbing dials and buttons that would have pulled me in as a bairn more than some presenter asking me to sign the 'I love you' song with them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsupported
Sf844 said:
So you don't see anything weird about Apple, a consumer electronics company, considering diagnosing Autism their business, by using the biometric sensors they implemented to unlock their devices?

The big question is, what do they care?
Click to expand...
I think it is weird but the whole Apple ethos as of late has come off to me that they want to manage every aspect of their customers lives no matter how trivial. It’s like the new version of cradle to grave socialism.
 
I wouldn’t worry about this too much. It’s not possible to diagnose someone purely from observation. There are several components to the actual diagnosis and there’s a ton of actual work during the assessment for autism. It’s not only not practical, it’s not possible.
This is even before considering that each criteria contains a wide range of possible traits as well as things like masking and large differences between genders and cultural groups.
 
Maybe Apple should concentrate on a way to use an iPhone camera to detect the early signs of dementia and scan their c-suite with it because from the outside-in they seem pretty evident.
 
Last edited:
davidako said:
Why is Apple getting involved though?
Click to expand...
Because Apple is starting to get into medicine.
davidako said:
Medical researchers have been perfectly capable of developing their own methods and codes for decades without the direct involvement of the particular multinational company that happens to manufacture a device they use.
Click to expand...
So you want to compartmentalize medical researchers into only one particular group?
davidako said:
Of course Apple might be doing this for purely altruistic reasons.
Click to expand...
It's not altruistic, nor is it evil.
davidako said:
Though that does go against the “Apple is a business” argument rolled out every time Apple puts profit first.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. Medicine is big business.
davidako said:
On the other hand there are numerous less favourable reasons Apple could be doing this, ranging from tax breaks to advertising to surveillance.
Click to expand...
Sure it's not impossible that Apple is doing this for tax breaks to advertising to surveillance. It's also not impossible that pigs fly.
 
4jasontv said:
Incorrect diagnoses are frustrating, but it's better to seek a second or third opinion than relying on Shazam for medical advice. I suspect each of the doctors they saw was aware of the Asperger's condition, they simply didn't prioritize it for your nephew's kid.

Now... if this was a tested medical device that only doctors had access to, so as to avoid WebMD diagnosis, and it could be used to speed up standard testing protocol, I would be more accepting of it. But for the love of all, don't give the general population an unreliable tool that could be used to ostracize someone.
Click to expand...
A massive number of diagnostic referrals for autism are done on the basis of a non -doctor persistently researching and struggling against doctors saying people aren’t autistic.
 
The obvious reason is that it is a complete invasion of privacy. Obviously it would be good for parents to know, however they already likely do, so the implication is that a global mega corporation has an interest in developing diagnostic software to detect Autism. How far from detecting autism is detecting ptsd/adhd/any acronym mental difference? Why would it not detect it on grown-ups aswell? Why would anyone want that information to be in the hands of a commercial corporation, regardless how "secure" they claim it to be?
 
4jasontv said:
Now... if this was a tested medical device that only doctors had access to, so as to avoid WebMD diagnosis, and it could be used to speed up standard testing protocol, I would be more accepting of it. But for the love of all, don't give the general population an unreliable tool that could be used to ostracize someone.
Click to expand...

If you take the time to actually read the article you'd see that it's Apple taking part in a research program, not Apple "[giving] the general population an unreliable tool..."
 
  • Like
Reactions: citysnaps
M
4jasontv said:
Yes. That was sort of my point.
Click to expand...
what I am saying is that doctors are the number 1 cause of delay in getting an autism assessment and diagnosis. And it’s by a massive margin. Virtually no doctor has any real expertise in autism. You’re more likely to get scientifically sounds dieting advice from a doctor than scientifically sound advice regarding autism from any doctor.
What makes matters worse is that the actual scientific research on autism is incredibly divorced from reality. Seriously, if you want to read some of the most degrading scientific research, autism research is the *peak* if degrading.
An example of the poor quality of the research is given here regarding facial expressions and eye contact. Neither of those make someone autistic and they’re trivial to bypass.
 
Varda said:
If this story was about Google doing this instead of Apple, just imagine what the comments would be like in this thread!
Click to expand...

Well...if it were an opt in "feature," I suspect most rational people not into sky is falling theatrics would shrug. If it were opt out, or automatically enabled most rational people would rightfully object.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsupported
Unsupported said:
If you take the time to actually read the article you'd see that it's Apple taking part in a research program, not Apple "[giving] the general population an unreliable tool..."
Click to expand...

Stop it! You will not earn any forum cred being rational with well-reasoned views. It's much better being aggrieved and outraged.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Unsupported
“The iPhone 15 Pro Max with childhood autism detection! Same price, same giant notch. Running iOS 17, the same iOS you love, now with a redesigned stocks app and nothing else”

Samsung: Our Galaxy S24 Ultra can take pictures of Andromeda, wash your dishes, and has a 8k 480hz 12 bit screen on front and back, expands out to 60 inches when you get home to double up as a 12k tv.
 
shaedygirl said:
M

what I am saying is that doctors are the number 1 cause of delay in getting an autism assessment and diagnosis. And it’s by a massive margin. Virtually no doctor has any real expertise in autism. You’re more likely to get scientifically sounds dieting advice from a doctor than scientifically sound advice regarding autism from any doctor.
What makes matters worse is that the actual scientific research on autism is incredibly divorced from reality. Seriously, if you want to read some of the most degrading scientific research, autism research is the *peak* if degrading.
An example of the poor quality of the research is given here regarding facial expressions and eye contact. Neither of those make someone autistic and they’re trivial to bypass.
Click to expand...
I am not sure you can say that making a list of differentials and ruling them out one by one is degrading.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back