Apple Responds to Report About Thieves Spying on iPhone Passcodes to 'Steal Your Entire Digital Life'

[I7guy]

I can do all that, turn on end to end encryption on my iCloud account and switch to hardware keys for 2FA. But if anyone obtains my passcode for any of my Apple Devices they can lock me out of all of them with just that passcode.

That is a huge flaw in Apple's security model. Unlike some people here I do expect Apple to fix it. I don't expect them to admit it is a huge flaw though because they will be expecting to be sued. If the woman in the WSJ video didn't have a lawyer before the video was published she does now.

We will have to disagree on this. Whether you think Apple can be held accountable in this matter in a lawsuit can succeed is anybody's guess and whether they make any changes in the future also remains to be seen. I think you are too optimistic Apple can lose a lawsuit like this.

Be aware of your surroundings. Use a screen time password to lock out account, password, location and sharing changes. Use a good password and only use biometric authentication methods in unfamiliar surrounds. There is no way reduce the risk to zero for any phone, or to prevent assault and robbery, but by using your common sense, situational awareness the risk will go down dramatically.

 

[blacksurfer]

Didnt Kanye or Ye use a four digit pin like 1234 LOL

 

[ADGrant]

We will have to disagree on this. Whether you think Apple can be held accountable in this matter in a lawsuit can succeed is anybody's guess and whether they make any changes in the future also remains to be seen. I think you are too optimistic Apple can lose a lawsuit like this.

Be aware of your surroundings. Use a screen time password to lock out account, password, location and sharing changes. Use a good password and only use biometric authentication methods in unfamiliar surrounds. There is no way reduce the risk to zero for any phone, or to prevent assault and robbery, but by using your common sense, situational awareness the risk will go down dramatically.

I am not going to opine on how successful the lawsuits will be but there will be lawsuits. Major US corporations are sued all the time. Apple will also be continuing to make changes to their security tools in future as will Google, Microsoft and everyone else.

I think everyone who has read this thread is aware of all the possible ways to mitigate the risks.

 

[ADGrant]

Didnt Kanye or Ye use a four digit pin like 1234 LOL

Probably, but that is not the stupidest thing he has ever done.

 

[I7guy]

I am not going to opine on how successful the lawsuits will be but there will be lawsuits. Major US corporations are sued all the time. Apple will also be continuing to make changes to their security tools in future as will Google, Microsoft and everyone else.

I think everyone who has read this thread is aware of all the possible ways to mitigate the risks.

Of course Apple will make changes, whether they make the changes people want in this thread remains to be seen. And you are the one that brought up lawsuits. I noted, lawsuits are easy to file and in some cases harder to win.

Security, privacy and etc is a process not a destination.

 

[Speed38]

Okay …
The “thief” locks your AppleID.

Can you still log into you Mac?

Why not? Logging into my Mac. I am asked for my admin password. Not my Apple ID. If I’m wrong, I’d be happy if you point it out, honestly.

 

[dk001]

Why not? Logging into my Mac. I am asked for my admin password. Not my Apple ID. If I’m wrong, I’d be happy if you point it out, honest

I asked as some in this article, on Reddit (good thread there), here, and other articles that they can lock you out of all Apple devices that use that AppleID.

”If you change your Apple ID password it will change on Apple's servers. Al, of your devices will have to log in again using the new password.”

 

[MilaM]

If you have a desktop iMac which ain't going anywhere, then one would be well advised to turn off Find My on that iMac to guard against it's data being wiped, would you agree.

If you are worried about the remote wiping, then this is sensible I think. I'm not even signed in to iCloud on my iMac, because I don't use any of the syncing functions for now.

Regular Time Machine backups and also one offsite backup destination are a good thing to have too in my opinion.

 

[Reason077]

I miss TouchID, it was so effortless, just pick up the phone with my imprint finger on the button, done. The phone could be sitting on a table at a distance and you could still unlock it without picking it up. Laying in bed and need to check it? Just pick it up. 9 out of 10 times when I wake up and give it a quick glance, I have to put my passcode in.

I have the opposite experience. Touch ID was unreliable, didn’t work with gloves or if you had a tiny bit of grease or sweat on your hands etc.

But Face ID works faster and very rarely fails. Also, Face ID works fine for me when lying in bed, even in a dark room. Believe me, I use it this way all the time!

 

[CharlesShaw]

Why not? Logging into my Mac. I am asked for my admin password. Not my Apple ID. If I’m wrong, I’d be happy if you point it out, honest

People with experience getting locked out are probably not reading this thread —and testing it out is unwise, but there is a lot discussed about it elsewhere.

Some have said the Mac owner can provide Apple with a receipt of purchase and proof of identity and get it unlocked. And if that is true I’m now realizing that the Apple ID my Mac uses is the email I purchased my Mac with and the backup copy of the receipt is “safely” stored in my iCloud Drive of that very Apple ID.

I have a few more things to add to my digital hygiene security survival kit plan thing that includes what happens if an event rendered me temporarily or permanently incapable of handling my personal financial matters and my entire life is paperless and handled in one Apple ID which also includes my private emails and communications.

[Edit: I’ve just returned to my old practice of printing and storing a receipt in the Apple boxes.]

 

[Crowbot]

I have the opposite experience. Touch ID was unreliable, didn’t work with gloves or if you had a tiny bit of grease or sweat on your hands etc.

But Face ID works faster and very rarely fails. Also, Face ID works fine for me when lying in bed, even in a dark room. Believe me, I use it this way all the time!

THe only time Face ID fails with me is when I first wake up in the morning. (I use it to turn the lights on) Too disheveled, I guess.

 

[Speed38]

I asked as some in this article, on Reddit (good thread there), here, and other articles that they can lock you out of all Apple devices that use that AppleID.

I checked out this thread at reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/11awqv5

...and IMHO, this MacRumors thread has a more rational, less chicken-little-the-sky-is-falling approach to this question that does the reddit thread. reddit can be great but can also be populated with inane comments (e.g. WTF!) by folks who just want to see their handle/name online.

“We are not here for a long time; we are here for a good time."

 

[ADGrant]

I checked out this thread at reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/11awqv5

...and IMHO, this MacRumors thread has a more rational, less chicken-little-the-sky-is-falling approach to this question that does the reddit thread. reddit can be great but can also be populated with inane comments (e.g. WTF!) by folks who just want to see their handle/name online.

“We are not here for a long time; we are here for a good time."

I disagree. Apple has a huge security hole here. One post from the reddit thread:

"Hilariously, if you try to erase your device, Apple asks for both your passcode andyour Apple ID password, to disable Find My. However, there's a big f**** loophole: if you know only the passcode, you can head to settings and change your Apple ID password using only your passcode."

Its hard to exaggerate how stupid it is that you can reset your Apple ID with just a single device password or pin.

 

[I7guy]

I disagree. Apple has a huge security hole here. One post from the reddit thread:

"Hilariously, if you try to erase your device, Apple asks for both your passcode andyour Apple ID password, to disable Find My. However, there's a big f**** loophole: if you know only the passcode, you can head to settings and change your Apple ID password using only your passcode."

Its hard to exaggerate how stupid it is that you can reset your Apple ID with just a single device password or pin.

I disagree. This works as intended. Because you don’t like the design doesn’t mean it’s bad or can’t be improved without killing the user experience. For those that really need this lifeline this is it.

 

[MilaM]

I disagree. This works as intended.

Ok, I'll bite. If the above were true, why are so many users in this thread and elsewere so surprised about the fact that you can change the Apple ID password just with the knowledge of the passcode?

 

[I7guy]

Ok, I'll bite. If the above were true, why are so many users in this thread and elsewere so surprised about the fact that you can change the Apple ID password just with the knowledge of the passcode?

I’ll play. How many iPhone users are there vs how many understand (or the reverse) one can reset the Apple ID with the device passcode? These threads don't represent typical users. Everybody that knew about this came out of the woodwork to voice their view.

What I didnt know is the screen time password could be reset, which I think should not happen.

 

[Mousse]

I’ll play. How many iPhone users are there vs how many understand (or the reverse) one can reset the Apple ID with the device passcode?

Tech thieves and hackers are far more knowledgeable about the vulnerability of the iPhone/AppleID than the average MR member--far, far more than the average user.

Like the old locksmith saying goes, "A door lock keeps an honest man honest." It ain't going to stop a determined burglar.

 

[I7guy]

Tech thieves and hackers are far more knowledgeable about the vulnerability of the iPhone/AppleID than the average MR member--far, far more than the average user.

Like the old locksmith saying goes, "A door lock keeps an honest man honest." It ain't going to stop a determined burglar.

That’s the point of someone really wants something they will get it. Instead of simple assault it could be a gun to your head. The way this is engineered seems to work for the majority of cases that would ordinarily result in a call to apple.

Whether of not this changes or not remains to be seen.

 

[ADGrant]

I disagree. This works as intended. Because you don’t like the design doesn’t mean it’s bad or can’t be improved without killing the user experience. For those that really need this lifeline this is it.

I don't like the design because it is a bad design. It's hard to understand why Apple would design a system that required 2 factor authentication to login to an account but only single factor authentication to disable that account.

It is equally hard to understand why someone would defend such an obviously flawed design but it is not the first time Apple's screwups have been defended by their most loyal customers. I hope it doesn't take Apple as long to admit they were wrong as it did with the Butterfly keyboard.

 

[I7guy]

I don't like the design because it is a bad design. It's hard to understand why Apple would design a system that required 2 factor authentication to login to an account but only single factor authentication to disable that account.

It is equally hard to understand why someone would defend such an obviously flawed design but it is not the first time Apple's screwups have been defended by their most loyal customers. I hope it doesn't take Apple as long to admit they were wrong as it did with the Butterfly keyboard.

What apple designed imo according to them is a system that strikes a balance between security and usability. Assault is not the use case that apple designed against. If someone holds a gun to you, anything the ne’er do well wants (should) will be given up anyway and the thief would get what they want. (Unless you are one of those trained in such circumstances or want to go up against a gun)

I suppose with pages of this nobody is changing anybody’s mind and we’ll have to see if apple has a response of some type.

 

[CharlesShaw]

It's hard to understand why Apple would design a system that required 2 factor authentication to login to an account but only single factor authentication to disable that account.

It’s not single factor because the trusted device is one and the pass code is the other one.

 

[dk001]

I checked out this thread at reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/11awqv5

...and IMHO, this MacRumors thread has a more rational, less chicken-little-the-sky-is-falling approach to this question that does the reddit thread. reddit can be great but can also be populated with inane comments (e.g. WTF!) by folks who just want to see their handle/name online.

“We are not here for a long time; we are here for a good time."

Okay but that doesn’t answer the question of mine you quoted.

 

[ADGrant]

What apple designed imo according to them is a system that strikes a balance between security and usability. Assault is not the use case that apple designed against. If someone holds a gun to you, anything the ne’er do well wants (should) will be given up anyway and the thief would get what they want. (Unless you are one of those trained in such circumstances or want to go up against a gun)

I suppose with pages of this nobody is changing anybody’s mind and we’ll have to see if apple has a response of some type.

Not sure why you keep bringing up assault or even usability. Someone who turns on two factor authentication for their iCloud account should get 2FA. If they wanted 1FA they would have left the 2FA checkbox unchecked. Even worse, someone who goes to the trouble and expense of buying and registering hardware keys does so in the expectation that Apple will use them to keep their iCloud account secure. Apple does not do this.

 

[ADGrant]

It’s not single factor because the trusted device is one and the pass code is the other one.

The trusted device is trusted because of that same passcode. It's single factor authentication.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I am guessing we will see a change in the policy currently being discussed, given the new move towards e2e and hardware key. I think Apple has been reticent previously as to try and save users from getting themselves locked out of their account etc. I think Apple will require more than the passcode to change the account password moving forward.