Uh no:
Google Hands Feds 1,500 Phone Locations In Unprecedented ‘Geofence’ Search
Feds tell Google to search four areas for suspected arsonists' phones. Google gives it 1,500 device IDs.
www.forbes.com
Apple Responds to Report on iOS 13's Frequent Location Tracking Reminders, Emphasizes Privacy
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www.forbes.com
Uh no:
Google Hands Feds 1,500 Phone Locations In Unprecedented ‘Geofence’ Search
Feds tell Google to search four areas for suspected arsonists' phones. Google gives it 1,500 device IDs.
Apple does the exact same thing. How do you think your phone figures out how Wi-Fi access points and Bluetooth iBeacons correspond to geographic location? By requesting this information from Apple's servers. This data is obtained via crowdsourcing, so your phone transmits to Apple it's GPS coordinates and similar Wi-Fi and Bluetooth data.
Justanotherfanboy
Suspended
The developers that are complaining.... the ones insisting that if they can’t continue FOREVER to track location data, etc. w/ the user never being reminded of the power they were granted at install- claiming that reminding the user of this fact will “hurt adoption of their apps”. Screw THOSE developers. Not ALL developers; to be clear.
Lol, not my original post to respond to- but I’m of relative certainty that’s what they meant! =)
Apple has never done anything even remotely like this. The similarities end at them both obtaining tracking data. I think it’s glaringly obvious what the big difference is here, so please don’t try to play this issue off as nothing, thanks.
Apple has never done anything even remotely like this. The similarities end at them both obtaining tracking data. I think it’s glaringly obvious what the big difference is here, so please don’t try to play this issue off as nothing, thanks.
What you don't understand is that as long as Apple collects the data, and they do, the government can get it under subpoena. That's law.
And if you actually read Apple's disclosure, they collect that and much much more.
And if you actually read the article you linked to, you'd see that Google does the same thing, they provided anonymized data to the Feds. However, it's been proven over and over again that anonymized data can be traced based on observing workplaces and travel patterns.
The article you linked to, if you bothered to read it, shows they got the data from location services requests. Apple says
so there's absolutely no difference.
So you're just burying your head in the sand and pretending Apple is somehow different. They're not. It's an automatic risk when using the location services consumers want.
dk001
macrumors demi-god
Just another thing I do not freaking need. So instead of finding ways to help fix this overabundance of "notifications", Apple just tacks more of the same on.
Yes ... a subpoena ... for a single person. Google freely gave away this info without a subpoena or a warrant for over 1,500 people ... people that had nothing to do with the incident, they just happened to own Android phones. So no, it’s not the same.What you don't understand is that as long as Apple collects the data, and they do, the government can get it under subpoena. That's law.
And if you actually read Apple's disclosure, they collect that and much much more.
And if you actually read the article you linked to, you'd see that Google does the same thing, they provided anonymized data to the Feds. However, it's been proven over and over again that anonymized data can be traced based on observing workplaces and travel patterns.
The article you linked to, if you bothered to read it, shows they got the data from location services requests. Apple says
so there's absolutely no difference.
So you're just burying your head in the sand and pretending Apple is somehow different. They're not. It's an automatic risk when using the location services consumers want.
dk001
macrumors demi-god
The more I look at this the less use I see for it.
For myself personally, all this is is an annoyance. I set the apps the way I want. Continued reminders that I have a couple set to "Always On" does not requires frequent reminders telling me this.
PITA.
Another reminder why my main phone is not an iPhone.
For myself personally, all this is is an annoyance. I set the apps the way I want. Continued reminders that I have a couple set to "Always On" does not requires frequent reminders telling me this.
PITA.
Another reminder why my main phone is not an iPhone.
Because the law says no subpoena or warrant is necessary. Because the data is voluntarily transmitted to the service provider there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, and therefore can be obtained without a court order. If Google fought it, and they probably have before, they would just be wasting time and money.
It's very dangerous thinking that Apple would be different, when the exact same laws apply to both.
realtuner
Suspended
You have a source for this? Keeping track of the geographic location of a WiFi hotspot of Bluetooth beacon IS NOT the same as doing continuous 24hr tracking of where YOUR iPhone actually is.
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False equivalency. I find it hilarious when people think that Apple and Google would behave the same just because the have to follow the same laws.
Again, actually read the article and look at the data that Google actually provided. They are location services and map queries, including Wi-Fi location and an anonymizing ID:
Unless you are asserting that Apple devices contain a database of every single WiFi location in the world and contain the entire Apple Map, then that data is necessarily downloaded from Apple. I even quoted part of the explanation from Apple's article above.
Apple even shows this fact off:
Privacy - Features
Apple products, including Apple Intelligence, are designed to protect your privacy, because privacy is a fundamental human right.
www.apple.com
They didn't say you aren't tracked. They said you are tracked with a random ID. Exactly like what was shown in the article.
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Flawed argument. We established that Apple and Google collect the same data. They are subject to the same laws requiring them to produce the data. Therefore the end result is identical.
It's dangerous to base privacy on advertising and wishful thinking.
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Justanotherfanboy
Suspended
Hmmmm.....What you don't understand is that as long as Apple collects the data, and they do, the government can get it under subpoena. That's law.
And if you actually read Apple's disclosure, they collect that and much much more.
And if you actually read the article you linked to, you'd see that Google does the same thing, they provided anonymized data to the Feds. However, it's been proven over and over again that anonymized data can be traced based on observing workplaces and travel patterns.
The article you linked to, if you bothered to read it, shows they got the data from location services requests. Apple says
so there's absolutely no difference.
So you're just burying your head in the sand and pretending Apple is somehow different. They're not. It's an automatic risk when using the location services consumers want.
Not sure that is accurate. It is my understanding that the data Google collected & handed over without being compelled to (1,500 peoples’ location data, over an area 7.5 acres) was ORIGINALLY only given as long/lat coordinates corresponding to a device identifier (anonymize); then the feds said “perfect, now go ahead and give us actual user data (names, etc.) of each of those anonymized device IDs”, to which Google again... without being compelled to do so, did anyways. Before I lose my s**t over what an incredibly clear violation of privacy this was- and over such a nothingburger crime (no human death, not millions of dollars of damage... we’re talking about a suspected arson w/ about $50k in damage- lol, my car is worth more than that. Can I just get all the names & location info of anyone within 7.5 acres, if someone trashed my car in a seedy parking lot or something??), I want to turn back to the location data differences between the two companies. As stated, Google gives a device ID that corresponds to the user... if I understand correctly, Apple’s is a “blind” identifier- as in, if you asked: “yeah, but who’s Apple ID is associated w/ this device?”, they’d have to respond: “we have no idea”.
kemal
macrumors 68000
I purchased an inexpensive digital timer / temperature controlled outlet switch. It is programmed via BlueTooth. I loaded the software on my Android phone and found it will not run unless I allow full time location access. And the app will not show in the Android settings for location services with the other location using apps. Install app, program switch, delete app.
Thanks Apple!
Thanks Apple!
Justanotherfanboy
Suspended
This picture of the spreadsheet of useless (to police) information, would mean a lot more if you left in the description of the photo where it said: “and then Google freely gave up the user’s names that were linked to these supposedly anonymous identifiers”.
According to that same article you lifted that image from, the government requested FAR more than the anonymized info you posted: FTA “which the tech giant duly provided, including name, email and other Google account use data.”
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In most states, arson is considered the most serious level of felony, the same as aggravated murder. This is because arson can easily result in death. Same in other countries, the maximum penalty for arson in the UK is life.
"Uh no" what? There are legitimate uses for background tracking and those listed by Google Maps in the settings are definitely legitimate uses, otherwise Apple would not have accepted the App in their curated App Store.
It's obvious that if you want those features you'll need to enable background tracking, otherwise the features would not work. Then Google obviously will know your location basically at all times. If you don't trust them with such information nobody is forcing you to use their products or to grant them such level of permission.
As someone who has to help people on a daily basis with their devices, I can say that 100% of the people that try and tell me they're "pro" users and smarter than the average user are, in fact, not at all any more knowledgeable.
If, as you say, you are not an idiot, rather than complain about the way the control center toggle works, why not make yourself a shortcut using the shortcuts app? Then you won't have to go to the settings every time, and it will be just as easy to toggle as the control center option.
Would that stop the periodic popup with the tracking reporting and request for confirmation to keep the "Allow Always" setting?
Kabeyun
macrumors 68040
They’re breaking my heart.
Outstanding, and validation for those of us who have always been all-in on the Apple ecosystem, in spite of some valid frustrations, because of their superiority with privacy, one of the biggest issues of our time.
You’re not the average mobile phone user, then. I think it’s a good nudge for those of us who know, and a bit of an education for the clueless legion.
I meant that's not all they're using your data for. Obviously some those features require tracking be turned on. I don't use their products, so I'm good.
PickUrPoison
macrumors G3
How is this “Apple monetizing the user’s location”?
Seoras
macrumors 6502a
I've only ever seen this once telling me that the Facebook App was tracking my location in the background. Surprised the hell out of me and I turned it off entirely.
I'm grateful to Apple for adding that to iOS13. I'm an app developer too and I don't really see the need for apps like facebook to track location constantly in the background. It does explain why it manages to suggest people as friends who have visited my home a few times.
Those "users" expressing frustration at a pop up every few days warning them of this must be a minority - or developers frustrated at Apple's move to reduced their intrusiveness into the lives of others.
