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Apple Responds to UDID Leak, Says Did Not Provide Data to FBI

pgiguere1 said:
Apple's denial about stupid stuff like the Mac ads aired during the Olympics make them lose credibility about important stuff like this. I'm not saying they're lying here, but I could trust them more if they were more honest in general.
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Companies will not do anything that harms there business. Apple is no different .
Vague words, convoluted carefully crafted sentences and denials until caught with the hand in the cookie jar and pressed to the wall by evidence is the norm in business.

Anybody who gets excited about privacy needs to realize the only way not to be visible is to have no phone of any kind, preferably no bank accounts, credit cards, bills to pay, job, i.e. dead?

Even then there are ID thieves checking obituaries.

We can also be assured that no matter what Apple puts into iOS6 for privacy will be hacked!
 
BRLawyer said:
A classic case of "plausible deniability" - what else would they say to the public? Or do you think agencies like the CIA also admit publicly to having secret prisons all over the world?
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Except for the fact that AntiSec has presented literally zero evidence that the UDIDs were actually taken from an FBI agent's computer.

I like to harbor a healthy skepticism about what my government says, as well, but that doesn't mean I'll believe a claim from an anonymous hacker with absolutely nothing to back it up.
 
I wonder if it is from all those people who used those unauthorized services to allow their iDevice to get into the iOS 6 beta. 12 million seems like a lot, but we really don't know how many people used those services.
 
bananasquiddly said:
Except for the fact that AntiSec has presented literally zero evidence that the UDIDs were actually taken from an FBI agent's computer.

I like to harbor a healthy skepticism about what my government says, as well, but that doesn't mean I'll believe a claim from an anonymous hacker with absolutely nothing to back it up.
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When the FBI says "ah, we have no evidence of blabla", this pretty much settles it for me - just as when the US Army states that "there is no evidence that whatever helicopter has been shot by the Taleban" in order to keep the morale of the troops...until the Taleban forces show the real wreckage for all to see.
 
Someone's lying here that's for sure. There was an old iPad 1 on that list that used to belong to me, but it was Wi-Fi only. So I don't think it was a telcom. Although it's easy to claim the FBI is lying, it seems nobody is questioning whether the hackers are simply lying. Why show only 1 million of the 12 million records? Maybe because they only have 1 million records, and it was from an app and the developer's computer was infected. I mean, do you really think an FBI agent has a macbook as his company laptop?
 
dBeats said:
Someone's lying here that's for sure. There was an old iPad 1 on that list that used to belong to me, but it was Wi-Fi only. So I don't think it was a telcom. Although it's easy to claim the FBI is lying, it seems nobody is questioning whether the hackers are simply lying. Why show only 1 million of the 12 million records? Maybe because they only have 1 million records, and it was from an app and the developer's computer was infected. I mean, do you really think an FBI agent has a macbook as his company laptop?
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Already in 2004...

http://www.macworld.com/article/1029277/fbi.html
 
the "evidence" thing makes me laugh.

There's no outright denial that it happened here. Just that there's no evidence presented to them.

There's no evidence in my office that I just farted, Because I didnt sniff for it. That doesn't change the fact that i did, in fact, just fart.

Antiec claims they got it from the FBI. FBI says "we have no evidence" and conducts no investigation.

Without a public inquiry into the FBI, there's no checks and ballances against them. there's no way for anyone but to take their words. And I'm sorry, but the FBI isn't exactly known to be the most trustworthy organization
 
BRLawyer said:
When the FBI says "ah, we have no evidence of blabla", this pretty much settles it for me - just as when the US Army states that "there is no evidence that whatever helicopter has been shot by the Taleban" in order to keep the morale of the troops...until the Taleban forces show the real wreckage for all to see.
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But… we ALSO have no evidence of it. It would be one thing if AntiSec had provided information definitively linking this dataset to the FBI, but as it is we're just taking them at their word.

LordVic said:
the "evidence" thing makes me laugh.

There's no outright denial that it happened here. Just that there's no evidence presented to them.

There's no evidence in my office that I just farted, Because I didnt sniff for it. That doesn't change the fact that i did, in fact, just fart.

Antiec claims they got it from the FBI. FBI says "we have no evidence" and conducts no investigation.

Without a public inquiry into the FBI, there's no checks and ballances against them. there's no way for anyone but to take their words. And I'm sorry, but the FBI isn't exactly known to be the most trustworthy organization
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Wait, really? So all we need to conclude that the FBI has something to hide is to make an unsubstantiated and baseless claim, and for them not to deny it?

HEY GUYS, THE FBI CAME INTO MY HOUSE LAST NIGHT AND STOLE ALL THE MILK FROM MY FRIDGE!!!!!11!1one

Yeah, no. Sorry.

Furthermore, how do you know there's no investigation? Just because they haven't mentioned it? Because a breach of security is exactly the kind of thing they would investigate publicly, right?

Being skeptical of the FBI but blindly trusting the accusations of an anonymous hacker without one iota of proof to back up his or her claims doesn't make you a skeptic, or savvy, or anything. It makes you a conspiracy theorist.
 
bananasquiddly said:
Wait, really? So all we need to conclude that the FBI has something to hide is to make an unsubstantiated and baseless claim, and for them not to deny it?

HEY GUYS, THE FBI CAME INTO MY HOUSE LAST NIGHT AND STOLE ALL THE MILK FROM MY FRIDGE!!!!!11!1one

Yeah, no. Sorry.

Furthermore, how do you know there's no investigation? Just because they haven't mentioned it? Because a breach of security is exactly the kind of thing they would investigate publicly, right?

Being skeptical of the FBI but blindly trusting the accusations of an anonymous hacker without one iota of proof to back up his or her claims doesn't make you a skeptic, or savvy, or anything. It makes you a conspiracy theorist.
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If the FBI has nothing to hide in this matter, than what harm would a public inquiry hold?

All government organzations should operate with complete transparency to it's people. When they believe they have to hide their actions from the very people that they're dealt with protecting, Questions should be brought up.

in this particular case. I don't know who to believe.

the only facts we have is that 1 million UDID's were somehow acquired by a hacker group. they claim to have 12 million more, And they claim to have gotten it from the FBI.

we have absolutely nothing else to go on. FBI hasn't outright declared they were not responsible. their wording was precise and not done by err. They know exactly what they said with "we have no evidence" instead of "it didnt come from us". There is a huge implied meaning.

So the questions come up. And I believe a public Inquiry would solve that.
 
LordVic said:
we have absolutely nothing else to go on. FBI hasn't outright declared they were not responsible. their wording was precise and not done by err. They know exactly what they said with "we have no evidence" instead of "it didnt come from us". There is a huge implied meaning.
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Obviously I realize the distinction between governmental organizations and private citizens, but some of the key tenets of our justice system are the presumption of innocence, and that the lack of communication regarding an issue such as this does not by itself count against you. Once again, if AntiSec had any evidence whatsoever linking the FBI to this list other than their word, I might be more skeptical, but since they don't I can't consider the FBI's statement damning at all.


LordVic said:
in this particular case. I don't know who to believe.
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Nor do I. So I'm believing no one.
 
dBeats said:
Someone's lying here that's for sure. There was an old iPad 1 on that list that used to belong to me, but it was Wi-Fi only. So I don't think it was a telcom. Although it's easy to claim the FBI is lying, it seems nobody is questioning whether the hackers are simply lying. Why show only 1 million of the 12 million records? Maybe because they only have 1 million records, and it was from an app and the developer's computer was infected. I mean, do you really think an FBI agent has a macbook as his company laptop?
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It was a Dell laptop.
 
charlieegan3 said:
so how did they get the data if apple didn't give it to them?

Glad to hear a new system is in the works.
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App back in the day when Apple wasn't actively blocking use of UDIDs is one way. A hack like that in app purchases for free is another. Those 'get access to the betas' folks is yet another.

Who knows if they really have one million UDIDs much less twelve million. They could have perhaps a 100k from these type of sources and the rest are fake. Gives them just enough hits for it to look legit so dumb folks get all scared and tell their equally dumb friends they better go check and bingo, more UDIDs since the idiots will out in the whole number

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pgiguere1 said:
Apple's denial about stupid stuff like the Mac ads aired during the Olympics make them lose credibility about important stuff like this. I'm not saying they're lying here, but I could trust them more if they were more honest in general.
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But you take an admitted hacker group's word as truth. Especially when they show no proof to back up the claims nd we can think up several alt methods etc
 
charlituna said:
Who knows if they really have one million UDIDs much less twelve million. They could have perhaps a 100k from these type of sources and the rest are fake. Gives them just enough hits for it to look legit so dumb folks get all scared and tell their equally dumb friends they better go check and bingo, more UDIDs since the idiots will out in the whole number

But you take an admitted hacker group's word as truth. Especially when they show no proof to back up the claims nd we can think up several alt methods etc
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This.
 
Who do I believe more, the FBI, or third parties? The answer should be fairly obvious -- third parties. While third parties have the impetus to lie and generate publicity for themselves, even if the FBI was responsible they'd never own up to it. If this was between someone else and hackers, perhaps.

I have never seen an agency so ignorant and ass-backwards as the current FBI. They waste money and resources on the abhorent spying and harassment of innocent citizens, all while failing at their principal mandate (mostly empowered by the Patriot Act). Irony in it's finest of course in the fact that an intelligence agency is not that secure. That laptop should have been encrypted...
 
“The FBI has not requested this information from Apple, nor have we provided it to the FBI or any organization."
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What a well-constructed misleading statement!

Apple does not need to actively "provide" it to the FBI, neither does FBI need to request "this" information. All of the companies in the US is already forced to have everything supervised by the FBI. Whenever the FBI wants to get some information from any of the companies, it does not need to specifically request for it, neither does the company need to specifically "provide" it, the FBI simply grabs it without the necessity to tell anyone!

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charlituna said:
But you take an admitted hacker group's word as truth. Especially when they show no proof to back up the claims nd we can think up several alt methods etc
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That's for sure. The nature of the FBI's operation force it to always lie to the public -- to hide the secret, for security of the nation, which is in reality controlled by the group of families who have built up their wealth for at least two generations.
 
LordVic said:
If the FBI has nothing to hide in this matter, than what harm would a public inquiry hold?
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A waste of tax dollars and time. What is the threshold for launching a public inquiry? A claim from an anonymous source with no evidence to back it up? We could gum up the entire functioning of public agencies in a day if that's all it took to launch an inquiry, not to mention the millions of tax dollars that would be expended. One person could literally generate hundreds of claims a year and then demand inquires. Since they were anonymous, we wouldn't know if it was one person generating them or hundreds of individuals each raising an issue.

I think a public inquiry makes sense if there was some proof this was from the FBI, regardless of whether the agency denies it or not. There has to be a threshold before such an inquiry is launched and this simply doesn't meet any threshold I can think of.
 
Battlefield Fan said:
Why am I not surprised the FBI denied any involvement?:rolleyes:
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Just how LulzSec denied getting caught and were simply disbanding for the heck of it. :rolleyes:

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SeattleMoose said:
If the government says they are NOT spying on us, then I for one believe them. Baaaahhhhhhhh!!!! ;)
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Looks like the anti-government, anti-authority movement is still going strong lol.

Government does about as much spying as a concerned parent trying to make sure their kid doesn't end up on a naughty site or is hiding drugs somewhere in his room.
 
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