Apple Says 35% of U.S. Merchants Accept Apple Pay

[Tech198]

that's not bad till u look at the other 65% who didn't accept Apple Pay

 

[truthertech]

Clicking the Auto-Fill button in the toolbar is easier...

But not as secure or private

 

[2010mini]

So how long are you spending paying at the actual terminal as opposed to how long you are waiting in line to get to the checkout?

Whilst I always agree, quicker is better, it's rather pointless complaining about an extra, let's say 20 or 30 seconds at a pay terminal if you have had to wait for 2 to 5 minutes in the queue at the checkout.

Waiting in queue is not a problem. Waiting in queue while everyone else spends extra time using those terminals is annoying. But if the terminal also accepts mobile payments. The person after me always smiles and is amazed after my transaction completes instantly.

 

[truthertech]

I never said first world problems but thank you for answering. The chip card was introduced for frauds which causes a great loss to the system and guess where banks recover that loss from. Our pocket. That small bit of inconvenience went a long way to tackle fraud. Europe and Asian countries are using chip and pin for a very long time now. Apple Pay is certainly convenient but guess where banks will charge the extra money needed for Apple Pay. Once main stream Apple will raise the rates.

I have never been a fan of Apple Pay because it's my phone that I paid money to get however it becomes a tool for Apple to earn money and the benefit for me is 3 seconds.

Well it's certainly more than three seconds if you are using the chip readers, which is most places. But your animosity towards Apple is blinding you to the huge and main benefit of Apple Pay- It protects your privacy and the security of your information and finances infinitely better. As my dad used to say, don't cut your nose off to spite your face

 

[2010mini]

Sorry Apple, I don't use apple pay unless there's a promotion behind it like Discover had. At this point, you'd have to pay me to use it.

Except from speed, using Apple Pay is the same as using your physical card. I get points from Citibank whether I use a physical card or Apple Pay. Apple Pay is just more convenient which is an added bonus.

 

[truthertech]

Sorry Apple, I don't use apple pay unless there's a promotion behind it like Discover had. At this point, you'd have to pay me to use it.

Because you like to give your private financial and personal information to every employee and business you deal with and entrust them to protect your privacy and security even if there is a private, secure and faster way that is free to use? Got it.

 

[KidPub]

Stopped carrying anything but my iPhone and swipe card for my front door. I realised today that I haven't taken money out of a machine for over 6 months, it's very convenient.

I'm in a similar mode. I've filtered out merchants like grocers and drug stores who don't accept ApplePay, so I just carry ID and a low-limit credit card for the occasional times I need to use it, such as at a restaurant. My motivation is security rather than convenience, but the convenience is a nice side benefit.

 

[aristobrat]

A few places are suddenly requiring that I use the EMV chips instead of just sliding my card, and it's freaking annoying how long it takes and how many steps there are. But most stick with the convenient card swipe.

The places "sticking with the convenient card swipe" are doing so at their financial risk, though.

If someone goes into a place that doesn't take EMV and commits fraud with a swiped card (that would have been prevented if the merchant accepted EMV), that place is now responsible for that fraud.

Before EMV, the banks would have been responsible for that fraud.

My guess is that most merchants who still have swipe aren't keeping it around as a "convenience" for their customers. They're keeping it because they think that the cost of any fraud they incur will be less than the cost of upgrading their stuff to EMV.

35% of all U.S. merchants accept Apple Pay? I don't buy that figure. Maybe 35% of all U.S. merchants have the ability to accept Apple Pay (as in, they have compatible equipment).

I think it might be possible. If you're "just" counting merchants, Walmart (that doesn't take NFC) counts as one, but so does the dry cleaner up the street from me (that does take NFC). So that one small business near me taking it just zeroed out Walmart not taking it. I think of you add up all of the small businesses that truly do accept NFC (simply because their equipment was configured to accept it out-of-box), 35% is possible?

That's a poor excuse. What about Europe? The US is a decade late to the game. We've been using chip and pin for well over a decade, as well as tap to pay for nearly as long.

Personally, I agree with the summary below.

So why has the U.S. not embraced EMV sooner? Part of the reason is because our fraud problem, while significant, has typically been among the lowest rates among highly-developed economically-mature countries. Much of that is due to the online authentication methods at work here. In England’s old offline authentication method, credit card transactions were gathered together at specific times – typically, at the end of the business day – and then batched over to the card issuers for authorization. It’s a method that gave those committing fraud a significant time lag between the transaction and the authorization, and this time lag contributed greatly to the higher levels of fraudulent activities in England. Here at home, our online authentication methodology permits authorizations to be done in real-time, thus thwarting a significant percentage of the fraudulent attempts at the point of sale, the best place to stop fraud.

http://www.paymentsleader.com/emv-america-what-took-you-so-long/

 

[djlythium]

Insert card when prompted. Remove card when prompted. Leave. Personal narrative seems to be the determining factor in how "difficult" chip cards are.

Try using NFC. Cashier says they don't do it. Look at NFC capable terminal. Try NFC anyway. Process partially starts before timing out. Customers in line giving you the side eye. Try again. Process completes. Smile smugly. Cashier smiles "smuglier" and says sign this. Meanwhile, 5 years have passed since you walked into the store for milk and eggs. It took you 5 years to get through the Apple Pay process. Your wife has left you and your kids call the former poolboy "new daddy". Chip and pin would have only taken 5 seconds and you'd still have your family. Was Apple Pay worth your family Harvey? Was it?!?!

So, you're bitter because of previous AP trauma. Want to talk about it?

 

[DanBig]

I have to say.... it is such a pleasure using Apple Pay over the new chip card terminals. Holy crap they are slow!

I bought an Apple watch just to get around having to constantly replacing the damaged cards by the piss poor readers that corrupt the cards (gone through five so far). So much better! Besides safer too no card numbers floating out there!

 

[69Mustang]

So, you're bitter because of previous AP trauma. Want to talk about it?

So basically you're saying you missed the entire point of my post. Which was: Narrative building to make something seem good or bad depending on what you like. Like all the posts turning a 5-10 second chip transaction into a march on the Trail of Tears. Want to talk about it?

 

[thespacekid]

Haven't used Apple Pay yet. First time I tried, I was supposed to call the bank so I gave up. The next time I was able to add several cards but then when I restored my iPhone due to a problem with it, they all went away.

 

[Boatboy24]

Accept and Use are an entirely different thing.

Most people i know with iphones 6's and 7's don't have this set up.

Apple and merchants need to do a better job informing users.

True. Even my friends that I go to for tech advice who own 6's and 7's don't use it. That's changing, but it was surprising.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I think a lot of the EMV hate is exaggerated, honestly; otherwise I'd expect way more use of the Pays than there has been. Samsung Pay, for instance, should have been killing it with their usage numbers by virtue of being able to be used even at places without NFC--yet they aren't doing much better than Apple.

That's not to say there aren't problems though. The rollout's been much slower than anyone wanted to expected, for one thing. Gas stations also got a reprieve until 2020 because there simply isn't enough compliant pump hardware available. I totally wouldn't be surprised if ~25-30% of stores simply never bother unless the government forces them to (or they otherwise lose the ability to process cards).

Yet gas stations are probably the largest target for thieves to steal your CC info with scamming hardware they put in the pumps.

Was the reason for EMV just to hide the actual CC info from the vendor? It doesn't seem to have any effect on someone stealing my card or using it's numbers. As a matter of fact, many places I use my EMV chip, I don't have to sign or enter a PIN, even on a $40 charge! Some thief can still just insert my card and walk away and nobody blinks an eye.

 

[blacktape242]

its growing at a snails pace if anything...

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I find the 35% number hard to credit. I was in California January-May and there were only a couple of places where Apple Pay actually worked. CVS near my house had an NFC terminal but it was not operational. Most merchants didn't even have that much. Here in Canada NFC is ubiquitous and I rarely have to take out my credit card. It does happen in smaller shops and in restaurants. I think restaurants don't like NFC because there is no tip prompt when you tap. Or can the terminals be configured somehow to include a tip prompt and still use NFC? I don't think I've seen that.

I think Canada is already way ahead of the US with the use of wireless handheld terminals in shops and restaurants. Being able conduct the transaction at my table or the counter and not have to hand my card to someone who disappears out-of-sight to process my transaction takes a lot of the risk out of using it.

While I've lived in the US my whole life and taken for granted how we process CC sales, after having been to Canada I have to wonder why we are so backwards here?

 

[Glyn H]

Wait you're doing PAYG for tube fares? Why not use an Oyster where you'd save yourself money as you're paying at least £400 more per year using PAYG vs Oyster and it goes up each time by £50 odd per additional zone.

I'm all for Apple Pay and ease of use but that's throwing money down the toilet.

Contactless cards & Pay are capped on a daily/weekly basis when using the Tube therefore I don't think you will be paying more than you would with an Oyster card.

 

[aristobrat]

Yet gas stations are probably the largest target for thieves to steal your CC info with scamming hardware they put in the pumps.

So you've definitely got that aspect, but you've also got the situation that many of these fuel pumps will need to totally replaced (in order to support EMV), which can require a lot of physical work (concrete, etc). Seems like a mess, IMO.

Was the reason for EMV just to hide the actual CC info from the vendor? It doesn't seem to have any effect on someone stealing my card or using it's numbers.

Right, EMV does *not* hide (mask/encrypt) your credit card numbers. Merchants are able to see them, which means it's possible for someone to steal them. IMO, to mitigate this risk, most larger retailers have setup their PIN pads to encrypt the credit card numbers, but that's something they're doing additionally -- it's not part of EMV.

If someone steals your credit card numbers, they can't use them alone to do a fraudulent EMV transaction. EMV transactions require the credit card numbers plus an unique code that comes from the chip on your card. That code changes frequently, so if someone steals it (by observing it as it flies across the network when you're paying for something), they have a pretty small time window in which they can re-use that code. Once that code changes, your stolen credit card number is pretty much useless (in terms of being able to be used for EMV transactions, anyway). So that's how EMV protects you.

So if someone steals your credit card numbers from your EMV card, seems like the best they can do is use it for online transactions, or clone them to a "swipe" card. They can then take that cloned swipe card to a business that doesn't take EMV yet and use it there for fraudulent transactions. I think this is the reason for the liability shift back in Oct '15, where businesses that DON'T take EMV cards now are responsible for the cost of this type of fraud.

As a matter of fact, many places I use my EMV chip, I don't have to sign or enter a PIN, even on a $40 charge! Some thief can still just insert my card and walk away and nobody blinks an eye.

The amount of this type of fraud (from lost or stolen cards) is pretty low IMO, so I doubt we'll see this change.

 

[doelcm82]

Apple Pay is certainly convenient but guess where banks will charge the extra money needed for Apple Pay. Once main stream Apple will raise the rates.

That's ridiculous. First, because as others have pointed out, Apple is not the only player in the NFC payments game. Second, because Apple doesn't need to raise its rates if it becomes mainstream. If more people are using Apple Pay, Apple makes more money with no rate hike necessary. Third, because Apple can make even more money with NFC by licensing their version of it (TouchID authentication) for other uses, such as hotel room keys, home automation keys, loyalty programs, electronic drivers licenses and IDs, etc.

 

[centauratlas]

Publix accepts Samsung pay. Their employees have been told Publix doesn't accept Apple Pay because it costs the company money. Since that's not true (Apple Pay doesn't increase the merchant fee), I smell a rat.

This is what Publix said on the Facebook page this morning:

"At this time we do not have plans to offer Apple Pay. When looking at advances in payment processing technology, we strive for a balance that meets the needs of our customers while assuring that these decisions are long-term solutions. We have dedicated teams that not only stay on top of the latest industry trends, but also incorporate customer feedback into the process. Be assured that all comments are shared with the appropriate department for consideration. ▲Matt"

 

[V.K.]

Yes they can, given the right terminal. At dinner in Melbourne (Oz) last Friday, the terminal (brought to the table) prompted for a tip with suggestions of various percentages (a bit presumptious as we don't tip in Oz but you find restaurants that try it on). Just hit OK, hold your iPhone to the terminal and you're done.

Good to know, thanks. I suspected this might be possible but haven't seen it implemented in the restaurants I frequent in Toronto. I wonder what other Canadians' experience is in this regard.

 

[avanpelt]

This is what Publix said on the Facebook page this morning:

"At this time we do not have plans to offer Apple Pay. When looking at advances in payment processing technology, we strive for a balance that meets the needs of our customers while assuring that these decisions are long-term solutions. We have dedicated teams that not only stay on top of the latest industry trends, but also incorporate customer feedback into the process. Be assured that all comments are shared with the appropriate department for consideration. ▲Matt

I love Publix and that is a bummer. "Assuring that these decisions are long-term solutions"? Does that mean Publix thinks Apple is going to go the way of BlackBerry and the iPhone will essentially have no market share within five years? I have a feeling they're going to go the way of Walmart and do their own QR code deal, unfortunately. They'll probably call it "Publix Pay". They had signed on to CurrentC/MCX, after all; so they must think QR codes are the future.

 

[kemal]

I'm still getting used to the rhythm of using the chip. And I have been using chip and PIN for more than a decade. ApplePay, on the other hand, has worked perfectly 99.9% of the time since the first week it went live.

 

[Böhme417]

The Costco near my house completely overhauled their gas pump POS equipment recently and it has the tap to pay/NFC logo right on the pump and the light is flashing inviting you to use NFC. Imagine my excitement when I tried to use my iPhone 6 to pay for gas for the first time ever. When my iPhone wasn't bringing up my debit card as it should've been, I tried using my Apple Watch. Nothing there, either. The Costco employee came over and asked me what I was doing. When I told him I was trying to use NFC, he said, "Oh yeah, we haven't turned that on yet and I'm not sure we're going to".

Same here. Pumps were overhauled and inside the warehouse has new EMV and contactless capable terminals, but you can't use either. I inquired at the store and at the pump, and those employees had no clue. I contacted Costco online and was told it wouldn't be active until late spring.

It so frustrating at the pump with the little flashing green light on the NFC reader. Such a tease!
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I love Publix and that is a bummer. "Assuring that these decisions are long-term solutions"? Does that mean Publix thinks Apple is going to go the way of BlackBerry and the iPhone will essentially have no market share within five years? I have a feeling they're going to go the way of Walmart and do their own QR code deal, unfortunately. They'll probably call it "Publix Pay". They had signed on to CurrentC/MCX, after all; so they must think QR codes are the future.

They must feel the same way about taking chips, too...

 

[doelcm82]

Samsung Pay's ability to be used nearly everwhere is having some effect, as its users' average weekly purchase total is slightly higher than that of Apple Pay users ($82 versus $75).

You've got this reversed as to which company's system is having the impact. Apple Pay now has 75% of all the contactless payments in the US!

I think (assuming both statistics are true--which in the age of fake news is not guaranteed) that these are two different questions being answered.

If ten Samsung Pay users spend an average of $82 and seventy-five Apple Pay users spend an average of $75, then it's Samsung $820 vs Apple $5625.

Also, Apple takes a tiny cut ($8.44) of that $5625. Samsung doesn't take a cut, as far as I know. They make money off Samsung Pay if the feature causes you to buy a Samsung phone that has the feature. I don't know if they also make money from deals with banks or credit card companies that they have partnered with.