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But cutting of Aperture, Apple wants everyone to use the Photos app..

I think Apple simply wants you to use something other than Aperture. Photos isn't a suitable replacement and they know it. They've had plenty of opportunity to make some tweaks to Photos that would make it a viable alternative for hobbyist photographers who were using Aperture.

All they would need to do to make a lot of Aperture users happy is introduce a rating system and/or color tagging of photos in lieu of the "favorite / not favorite" system. That's probably not as trivial as it sounds, but it's not an outlandish request so if they haven't done it by now, it's not coming.
 
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Aperture hasn't aged well. If Aperture is all you know, you won't be able to understand this.

Apple was right to abandon it. The photo editing / digital asset management space is very crowded. It has over a dozen major competitors and probably several dozen if you start considering stand alone editor tools without asset management built in. Some of those alternatives are extremely good.

I loved Aperture and I hung onto it for too long myself. When I finally moved on, my only regret was that I didn't do it soon. Aperture was easy to use and didn't make me think very much, but it was underpowered in its color editing tools and my extended reliance on it stunted my development as a photographer.

Capture One Pro is my photo editor these days and it can be configured to work similarly to the way Aperture worked. If the thought of giving up Aperture makes you want to make Mojave the last MacOS you'll ever use, do yourself a favor and give Capture One Pro a serious look. It takes a little exporing to figure out how to configure it, but my setup really does mimic Aperture.

No, Apple was not right to abandon it. This was a stupid corporate squabble decision. Aperture was lightyears ahead of the competition and still is to this day. Aperture may not have been excelling in image editing itself but the whole DAM part remains unmatched. 5 years after its discontinuation, it still beats the pants off every other software out there. And I've tried all of them, desperately.

CaptureOne is great in terms of quality when it comes to image editing, however the rest is a miserable sh*t show. I mean, think about that; CaptureOne existed even before Aperture was created, simply as an editor. The "DAM" part was added later but it's still such an afterthought that even after almost a decade it's nowhere near capable of the functionality of a long discontinued application. Image editing in C1 has progressed greatly over that timespan, but not the managing part even though PhaseOne purchased (and subsequently discontinued) a solely DAM-focused application.

Now let's look at Adobe; LR was a frantic and rushed response to the launch of Aperture. The mistakes they made are still part of LR classic to this day. Well, realizing that their aging software that they pile stuff on over and over wasn't going to sustain this forever, they finally started over with the new LR. A chance to fix everything they did wrong in the original one and now look at it: it's terrible. It has years to go before it amounts to anything.

Aperture had tons of potential, the only thing needing improvement was the image editing part. Clearly not an impossible task considering the countless good image editors that are now on the market. Yet, none, I repeat; none of them has a well functioning DAM part like Aperture did despite years and years of development and having Aperture as an example to simply copy from. They just can't replicate it. I guess it turns out building an image editor with a well functioning DAM isn't actually so easy.
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If you think Aperture is a pro application, you are not a pro.
1. Aperture was classified by Apple as part of their Pro-Applications, even the license was located in a folder called Pro-Apps. But you knew that, right?
2. Read my response above regarding other "Pro" applications and how they compare to Aperture.
3. You clearly have no idea what a Pro is.
 
Aperture may not have been excelling in image editing itself but the whole DAM part remains unmatched. 5 years after its discontinuation, it still beats the pants off every other software out there. And I've tried all of them, desperately.

Have you given Photo Mechanic a spin? That seems to be the gold standard for a pure DAM, but I wasn't too eager to split up ingestion and editing into two different workflows.

Aperture was a really slick DAM. I'll give you that and I do miss how smooth the workflow was, but by the time I left the Aperture bubble three years ago, it was no longer stable and getting slower.

3. You clearly have no idea what a Pro is.

I guess not. I actually meant that anyone clinging to Aperture isn't a pro and I've updated my comment to avoid giving the wrong impression. It was a pro app with some deficits in its day, but every app has deficits. By the time it was abandoned the list of deficits was getting more alarming and for a pro app, it had underpowered RAW export conversion. If you don't like color, that was the RAW processor for you.
 
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Have you given Photo Mechanic a spin? That seems to be the gold standard for a pure DAM, but I wasn't too eager to split up ingestion and editing into two different workflows.

Photo Mechanic has a new Photo Mechanic plus which persists a catalog of images it has ingested or browsed.

Capture 1 does not allow all the metadata one works to enter to be pushed back into the original files, like Aperture does or Photo Mechanic does. This means don't enter metadata innnto (<<nice keyboard, eh Apple?) Capture 1, use something else.
 
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Photo Mechanic has a new Photo Mechanic plus which persists a catalog of images it has ingested or browsed.

Capture 1 does not allow all the metadata one works to enter to be pushed back into the original files, like Aperture does or Photo Mechanic does. This means don't enter metadata innnto (<<nice keyboard, eh Apple?) Capture 1, use something else.

Photo Mechanic plus looks like it might be a good DAM. I hope they don't price it too high, it is in beta now.

It uses macos raw renders for preview, but you can choose whatever for other renders, Adobe Capture Raw, Caputure 1, Nikon nx-d, etc. It keeps all your metadata work (captions, locations, keywords) in your images, so it would be easy to change renderers, as you are not tied to one. Aperture allows one to push all the metadata back into the original images, so it should be easy to switch to other software. Aperture will be working for well over a year as the current os will get updates for at least a year and a half. I just got updates to Sept 2016 Sierra, which is 2.5 years old.

Problems with Capture 1: https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=28880

Readme for Photo Mechanic Plus: http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=12297.0
 
Because they they have sold two million copies of Final Cut Pro X and they sold no where near that many of Aperture.

no **** Sherlock...care to explain who's fault is was? Updates were getting slower and slower, third party plugins launched and kinda died off, lens correction never made it into the app, etc ...


I'm a die hard Aperture user since version 2 (have v2 a upgrade to v3 as physical boxes) but blaming the market or users is pathetic, it was Apple's fault that Aperture didn't become go-to-app for photographers on Macs.

Everybody can take some kind of a picture, fewer people can shoot a watcheable video, even less people can play some instruments and turn it into a song. There were 3 very distinct needs and casual/pro users in each and they still are there now. How come Affinity, Luminar even Capture One can afford developing photo apps and Apple couldn't find the resources??
 
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no **** Sherlock...care to explain who's fault is was? Updates were getting slower and slower, third party plugins launched and kinda died off, lens correction never made it into the app, etc...

You mix cause and effect. Apple did not invest in Aperture because the market was not there for it.

but blaming the market or users is pathetic, it was Apple's fault that Aperture didn't become go-to-app for photographers on Macs.

Given that people got Lightroom as part of a bundle with Photoshop, a tool that many people were already paying to have, and that many others do not see the need for either Aperture or Lightroom, explains why Apple market share was always small.

Everybody can take some kind of a picture, fewer people can shoot a watcheable video,

That is true, but most people who shoot photos, do not edit them and certainly do not use more than something like Photos (or Google Photos) offers them. In contrast, almost no one that produces video to share, produces it in final form in camera, without editing it in an NLE.

even less people can play some instruments and turn it into a song.

Not sure if you are attacking Logic or Garage Band. Garage Band (and its audience is similar to Photos). Logic is used for way more than composing, and again, way more people who produce audio, use DAW then people who shoot photos and edit them at the level they need Aperture.

There were 3 very distinct needs and casual/pro users in each and they still are there now. How come Affinity, Luminar even Capture One can afford developing photo apps and Apple couldn't find the resources??

The problem with Apple expending resources on this product is not one of dollars, it is one of opportunity cost. Apple has a limited number of engineers and the teams that support them. Assigning one team to a product that does not generate the needed return vs. a product that will is what they do not want to do.

There are benefits to building some products that enhance the ecosystem even without generating the needed return. That was the reason to build the iLife products. That there are as many competitors as you already listed, shows that the market is robust and Apple does not need to be in it, if they cannot hold substantial market share.
 
There are benefits to building some products that enhance the ecosystem even without generating the needed return. That was the reason to build the iLife products. That there are as many competitors as you already listed, shows that the market is robust and Apple does not need to be in it, if they cannot hold substantial market share.

Building ecosystem of consumer and pro apps gave them a significant differentiation and was driving sales of hardware. In 2006 I bought my first Apple gear because of it (could have bought 2-3 PCs w monitors for that money). I started with iPhoto and 1y later I went for Aperture. In 2019 by killing photo apps, external monitors I have very little reasons to stick with them going forward when my gear dies. I already replaced my monitor with NEC and I'm using Capture One, which seems to run faster in Bootcamp than on OS X (same machine w eGPU).

Very few of 3rd party apps take advantage of Mac specific features because they strive to be cross platform. I'm not buying the argument of small teams - for some reason it is OK for them to keep engineers for audio and video pro apps, but not for photography.

I agree on the opportunity cost, but as a strategic decision this one was horribly wrong....seems to be a pattern since Cook took over. These software driven transitions happen slowly, but when they become visible in the financials it's too late to fix them.
In my case killing Aperture is THE reason that my money won't go into Mac hardware or software after my current gear retires as I do not see any practical reason in staying with the platform.
 
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I loved Aperture and I hung onto it for too long myself. When I finally moved on, my only regret was that I didn't do it sooner. Aperture was easy to use and didn't make me think very much, but it was underpowered in its color editing tools and my extended reliance on it stunted my development as a photographer.

Ditto. Kept hoping that Aperture would get updates and be great. But once I went to LR I found everything I hoped Aperture would have become - and regretted waiting too long to transfer.

Now I just have to move my photos over a little faster (Have been moving small batches here and there but not rushing)

Of course I still have some older photos in iPhoto - wondering when that will die as well...
 
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Building ecosystem of consumer and pro apps gave them a significant differentiation and was driving sales of hardware. In 2006 I bought my first Apple gear because of it (could have bought 2-3 PCs w monitors for that money). I started with iPhoto and 1y later I went for Aperture. In 2019 by killing photo apps, external monitors I have very little reasons to stick with them going forward when my gear dies. I already replaced my monitor with NEC and I'm using Capture One, which seems to run faster in Bootcamp than on OS X (same machine w eGPU).

If the only reason people are buying Macs is Apple’s proprietary pro apps, Apple is doing something seriously wrong. I am sure there are some people who bought systems to get Final Cut X, Logic, and/or Aperture, but that is a small part of their pro market. They have already announced that as part of the new modular Mac Pro, there will be an Apple monitor (or maybe monitors). It may be too late for them to keep you as a customer and that is completely their fault. However, it is their fault mostly because they have not been building compelling hardware for you, not just because Aperture is not supported.

Very few of 3rd party apps take advantage of Mac specific features because they strive to be cross platform. I'm not buying the argument of small teams - for some reason it is OK for them to keep engineers for audio and video pro apps, but not for photography.

Some (Affinity Photo, Pixelmator Pro, DaVinci Resolve, etc.) do really take advantage of the platform. Again, they have sold 2 million copies of Final Cut Pro X, and (I would be primarily because of Photoshop and the Creative Cloud bundle deal) sold no where near as many copies of Aperture. Timing may have been an issue. Had Affinity Photo, Luminar and Pixelmator Pro been options when people were considering Aperture vs. Lightroom/Photoshop, things might have been different.

I agree on the opportunity cost, but as a strategic decision this one was horribly wrong....seems to be a pattern since Cook took over. These software driven transitions happen slowly, but when they become visible in the financials it's too late to fix them.

There were just as many people screaming about strategic decisions that Steve made as their are about those that Tim makes. I understand what you think, and I do not have enough of the data to prove you are wrong, but I still think that the bigger problem is the hardware, not Aperture.

In my case killing Aperture is THE reason that my money won't go into Mac hardware or software after my current gear retires as I do not see any practical reason in staying with the platform.

It certainly is possible that even if Apple made hardware that was not very compelling for you, had they continued to update Aperture, you might have stayed. However, if they made hardware that was compelling now, you would stay even without Aperture. As someone at NeXT Computer, Inc. once said: “People should want to buy our hardware despite that it only runs our software, and our software despite that it only runs on our hardware. Our job is twofold: Make both so compelling on their own that they over come the downsides or their proprietary nature, and make the pair even more compelling.”

Apple’s more serious failure is not have compelling hardware for you (and others).

P.S. I am not trying to convince you that you should not be upset that it was your ox that was gored. I am just saying that, from the numbers I do know, Aperture was not a viable market for them.
 
Did you check the Apple support document re the Aperture announcement? it has instructions on how to move to Adobe's Lightroom Classic. It has an Aperture import plugin. Some metadata will have issues, and you might want to use keyword hierarchies instead of Aperture's album/folder setup as this will impart the same organizational info, but be much more portable into any other subsequent DAM program. Not sure what "notes" are in Aperture; don't remember those.

It helps to use Aperture Exporter on the Aperture library first; it can help with exporting adjusted images, and do some other stuff to make the transition easier.

DxO Photolab (the newer versions of Optics Pro, which ended quite a while ago) isn't so hot on organization, metadata, etc.

And consider Graphic Converter. It can browse right inside your existing Aperture library, showing folders, albums, etc. Even Places and Faces. But I don't think it can show anything but the original masters. Still, super useful and affordable, and it can do an awful lot besides conversion. And unlike Aperture, despite its long history on macOS it just keeps going and getting better and better.
Hi, thanks for all that. I saw a product called Affinity and might wait for a while to see if they incorporate a DAM into the package. I'm going to stay on 10.14 for a while as I'm cool about how it works.
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DxO’s claim to fame is their camera/lens database and how they use that for specialized image corrections. Their perspective correction module isn’t bad either. It’s capable, and I sometimes use it for editing individual images, particularly architecture. They also have a series of “film packs” that are essentially filters to make your image look like various analog film types if you’re into that. It’s been a generation or two since I’ve tried using it for library management, but at the time it was more awkward to use than Aperture for sure.

Capture One is a more expensive alternative, but I’ve found it easier to fit into my workflow after some practice and concessions on my end. If DxO excels at lens correction, Capture One seems focused on color correction. It has a one click import that will pull most of your Aperture library in (or it did when I imported at version 10, they’re at 12 now) and a trial version. The import isn’t perfect, but I doubt any of them are. The metadata doesn’t match 1:1 across packages but I’ve forgotten the specific item I had trouble with?

And no package you import into will carry your Aperture adjustments, so you need to export your adjusted images from Aperture to a good archive format like PSD or TIFF.
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I’ll admit, I’m still confounded by the sessions versus catalog split. I went catalogs. What made you choose sessions? Best I could figure from the vague documentation was that sessions were tuned for tethered capture in studio?
Yah, thanks. Will check that out too in the interim.
 
I've still not forgiven Apple for pulling the plug on one of the best apps they've created, especially since there's just no good alternatives… :mad:

(Hoping that Affinity eventually will create a descent DAM but that does not let Apple off the hook.)
It already is, its called Affinity Photo
 
I really hope some workaround is found. Aperture is still working perfectly for me on Mojave, and I have many dozens of libraries and TBs upon TBs of images across multiple drives as I have used it not just for personal reasons but for work for over a decade.



Tried lightroom, didn't like it. Photos is great but just for my iPhone-shot, iCloud-synced stuff, but for professional work and the amount of images I go through, my work machine may stay on Mojave indefinitely. Though Photos still crashes MORE on me than Aperture and i use it far, far, far less.



I also really like all my plugins on it that also still work perfectly fine.
 
I really hope some workaround is found. Aperture is still working perfectly for me on Mojave, and I have many dozens of libraries and TBs upon TBs of images across multiple drives as I have used it not just for personal reasons but for work for over a decade.



Tried lightroom, didn't like it. Photos is great but just for my iPhone-shot, iCloud-synced stuff, but for professional work and the amount of images I go through, my work machine may stay on Mojave indefinitely. Though Photos still crashes MORE on me than Aperture and i use it far, far, far less.



I also really like all my plugins on it that also still work perfectly fine.

Give Lightroom Classic a second chance. I don't know a single professional photographer that doesn't use it. Aperture was as "prosumer" as it gets (and a complete train wreck under the hood). Adobe apps are a little clunkier (they've gotten better) but they're accountable, which is to say they're reliable where Apple is not (reading EXIF data), and they listen to user feedback (as opposed to telling users "No, this is what you want").

My experience with Aperture was diving down a rabbit hole of workarounds trying to get it to work until I finally gave in to Lightroom (back in 2011), and then everything just worked as expected. It sucks that you would lose so much work from edits but it's otherwise a no-brainer. And you won't have to worry about the future roadmap/upgrade path because it's the industry standard, and they hold themselves accountable with compatibility, so you won't be left in the lurch if you transition from Lightroom Classic to "diet" Lightroom (CC) or some new photo editing software they release a decade from now.
 
Give Lightroom Classic a second chance. I don't know a single professional photographer that doesn't use it. Aperture was as "prosumer" as it gets (and a complete train wreck under the hood). Adobe apps are a little clunkier (they've gotten better) but they're accountable, which is to say they're reliable where Apple is not (reading EXIF data), and they listen to user feedback (as opposed to telling users "No, this is what you want").

My experience with Aperture was diving down a rabbit hole of workarounds trying to get it to work until I finally gave in to Lightroom (back in 2011), and then everything just worked as expected. It sucks that you would lose so much work from edits but it's otherwise a no-brainer. And you won't have to worry about the future roadmap/upgrade path because it's the industry standard, and they hold themselves accountable with compatibility, so you won't be left in the lurch if you transition from Lightroom Classic to "diet" Lightroom (CC) or some new photo editing software they release a decade from now.

Our experiences are basically inverse. Aperture had issues around 2011 or so, i think when it was still transitioning out of the MobileMe era, but I can count the crashes/issues on one hand in the last 5+ years, and never had to worry about any workarounds except waiting for the RAW engine to be updated as I'm usually an early adapter for new cameras (sony alphas, DJI anything etc), and then I only needed to batch exported TIFFs via photoshop.

I use CC for photoshop/illustrator/indesign all the time, but for me Lightroom was always very slow and the interface was a bit convoluted and poor. It would also take a few minutes to launch when I only had like ~100 photos in it when trying it out. Mind you, this wasn't recently because Aperture has been smooth sailing since MacOS was still cats. And among at least 4 different macs between my employees and I when we were doing both the shooting and designing for print work.
 
There is a glimmer of hope for you. BTW, I feel the same way as you about Aperture and am still using it.

The hope is that the ex-engineering lead on Aperture, Nik Bhatt (so some who knows Aperture probably better than anyone) is perhaps right now, as we speak, working on introducing Aperture like DAM features into his raw processing app, RAW Power (gentlemen coders.com). The reason for this, is that Apple announced at the developers conference a month ago, that they are opening up the Photos library to 3rd party apps.

Nik Bhatt on their twitter account:
"Apple is providing photo library access on Mac for Catalina. I’m digging into it now. I’m optimistic!"

This is actually pretty huge. It opens up a LOT of possibilities. The crux for Aperture users ... is that Photos can read Aperture libraries in their entirety.

I encourage you to check out RAW Power (I bought it myself when it was launched a couple of years back, in the vain hope that something like this might happen). I also suggest you tweet your encouragement and maybe send an email directly on gentlemencoders.com to encourage and perhaps mention the features you most like in Aperture.
 
I have a feeling there will be a work around for Aperture in Catalina, like when they killed Final Cut Studio for FCX.

@GFS, I had not heard of RAW Power, the interface looks very similar to Aperture. If they included an Aperture like DAM it looks like it could be the first decent Aperture replacement.
 
There is a glimmer of hope for you. BTW, I feel the same way as you about Aperture and am still using it.

The hope is that the ex-engineering lead on Aperture, Nik Bhatt (so some who knows Aperture probably better than anyone) is perhaps right now, as we speak, working on introducing Aperture like DAM features into his raw processing app, RAW Power (gentlemen coders.com). The reason for this, is that Apple announced at the developers conference a month ago, that they are opening up the Photos library to 3rd party apps.

Nik Bhatt on their twitter account:
"Apple is providing photo library access on Mac for Catalina. I’m digging into it now. I’m optimistic!"

This is actually pretty huge. It opens up a LOT of possibilities. The crux for Aperture users ... is that Photos can read Aperture libraries in their entirety.

I encourage you to check out RAW Power (I bought it myself when it was launched a couple of years back, in the vain hope that something like this might happen). I also suggest you tweet your encouragement and maybe send an email directly on gentlemencoders.com to encourage and perhaps mention the features you most like in Aperture.

Didn't Apple promise 3rd party support for Photos from day one, or was that just those useless extensions?

Better late than never, but also better not to lie that Photos will be able to replace Aperture and then do nothing until the last possible moment and hope 3rd party developers deliver on your promise.
 
I really hope some workaround is found. Aperture is still working perfectly for me on Mojave, and I have many dozens of libraries and TBs upon TBs of images across multiple drives as I have used it not just for personal reasons but for work for over a decade.



Tried lightroom, didn't like it. Photos is great but just for my iPhone-shot, iCloud-synced stuff, but for professional work and the amount of images I go through, my work machine may stay on Mojave indefinitely. Though Photos still crashes MORE on me than Aperture and i use it far, far, far less.



I also really like all my plugins on it that also still work perfectly fine.

Maybe running Mojave in a VM is the way forward. I found it to be not as responsive as windows in VMware Fusion though.
 
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