Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.



Shortly after the U.S. Department of Justice filed a motion demanding Apple comply with an order to help it unlock the iPhone 5c of San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook, Apple executives shared key information with several reporters, including BuzzFeed's John Paczkowski, about government missteps that may have led to reduced access to the iPhone in question.

2015-10-01-tim-cook-0019edit_wide-da972704bfb8889652c3befb6c814e3b465055f9-s1600-c85-800x450.jpg

According to Apple, the Apple ID password on the iPhone was changed "less than 24 hours" after being in government hands. Had the password not been altered, Apple believes the backup information the government is asking for could have been accessible to Apple engineers. The FBI has said it has access to weekly iCloud backups leading up to October 19, but not after that date, and it is seeking later information that could be stored on the device.Apple executives said the entire backdoor demand could have potentially been avoided if the Apple ID password not been changed, as connecting to a known Wi-Fi network would have caused the device to start backing up automatically so long as iCloud backups were enabled. Instead, with the information inaccessible, the FBI has requested tools that set what Apple calls a "dangerous precedent." The FBI wants a version of iOS that accepts electronic passcode input and removes passcode features like time limits and data erasure following failures.

Apple says the software would be the equivalent of a master key that could be used to access millions of devices (including Apple's newest iPhones and iPads) and has called the demand an "overreach" with chilling implications. Apple executives today also refuted the DOJ's claim that the company's refusal to comply is a marketing tactic, saying it was done based on "love for the country" and "desire not to see civil liberties tossed aside."

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Apple Says Government Changed Apple ID Password on Shooter's iPhone, Losing Access to Data
Don't look at those eyes. And ignore the poop Apple will be excreting about this.
 
Which is why I have an email cert and use s/mime
...and you require everyone you email to/from use it as well? How do you keep the addresses private? Email is inherently insecure, and while the steps you're taking make it a little less insecure, it's not by much.
 
The security enclave is present and used on the iPhone 5s. Not on the iPhone 5c of this case.
[doublepost=1455969711][/doublepost]
Here's an example what you have to hide, as an absolutely law abiding and totally innocent person: You want to buy a new car. The car dealer sells cars for a major car company who has employed let's call them data specialists who have searched your phone and found out when you told your wife or husband how much you would be willing to pay for that car. With that information, the car dealer manages to extract the maximum amount of money from your wallet. My phone on the other hand was secured which allowed me to buy the same car for $2,000 less.

A larger issue is simply one of personal security and safety. Imagine the bad guys having the ability to extract all the personal information from the phones of first responders, police officers, doctors and nurses, soldiers. Imagine the psychological terror to say nothing of the real possibility that once someone has your personal information, just the information in your contact list, they can use that against you and your family. Even going so far as to threaten the health and safety of your spouse and children, relatives and friends. Imagine the position that could put our service men and woman. Imagine what it would do to you if someone had a back door to your phone and used that to blackmail you? To destroy your reputation. To post on your behalf and upload pictures unless ransom is paid. To enter into databases and change your personal information. To use that information to hack into your children's phones and do the same to them.

To say that "I have nothing to hide" is ignorant in the extreme. You do have something to PROTECT and it goes well beyond the person that owns the phone and records data in it.
 
One important thing to add to my previous comment:

If you plan on voting for ANY of the Republican clowns, you are signing the death warrant to your ability to keep your personal data secured, your ability to access unaltered factual information on the Internet, any chance for financial or global stability, and any chance for future for continued US superiority. Right-wing lunacy must end before the USA can begin to recover to it's pre-Bush greatness. A few of the most absurd "conservative" beliefs that must be corrected are:

* that blind faith in an imaginary God is acceptable an not treated as a mental disease
* that religion or conservatism is in any way correlated with "morality"
* that current Republican candidates in any way represent typical conservative voters needs in life
* that current Republican candidates in any way represent anyone that isn't making a 7-figure salary
* that war or walls are the answer to any anyone not like us
* that caring for our less fortunate citizens is a bad thing
* that educating our citizens is not important to our future
* that corporations are people and should be able to buy our political system and votes
* that modern, global, Capitalism in any way benefits consumers or US interests
* that raping our Constitutional privacy protections will protect us from terrorism

If you believe in these things, then you are ignorant.

Uh, the last time I checked, it is the current DEMOCRAT in the White House who is demanding that Apple build a back door into the iPhone. What makes you think Hillary or even Bernie would be any different in practice?

Anyway, Democrats are the party of billionaires. Look at George Soros, Warren Buffett, Michael Bloomberg and most of the Silicon Valley crowd.
 
Uh, the last time I checked, it is the current DEMOCRAT in the White House who is demanding that Apple build a back door into the iPhone. What makes you think Hillary or even Bernie would be any different in practice?

Anyway, Democrats are the party of billionaires. Look at George Soros, Warren Buffett, Michael Bloomberg and most of the Silicon Valley crowd.


I agree, especially for Hillary Clinton.

BUT I am convinced Bernie Sanders would care about human rights of the US citizens (and hopefully human rights of all citizens in other countries as well, which was NEVER the case) - Bernie Sanders did this already since decades. Hillary did not and is a pudel of Big Money.

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/19/hillary-clinton-goldman-sachs-transcripts/
 
So, we know Apple cooperated with the FBI in the days following the attack. It was reportedly just iCloud backups that was handed over but now that the password was changed, the plan they had wasn't going to work. The plan was to have the phone connect to a known wifi network and connected to a charger so it could create a backup automatically, as it should. The the FBI could request the backup data without unlocking the phone. BUT, like I said, the password was changed. So now you HAVE TO unlock the phone and input the new password for the Apple ID before you can create a backup again. But that's the problem, we don't know the passcode. :)
Not only that but one thing everyone seems to be missing is once the device it turned off it it has to be logged back in before it connects to wifi. So Apples "fix" to get current backup by connecting to known wifi most likely wouldn't have worked unless the device was never turned off.
 
Not only that but one thing everyone seems to be missing is once the device it turned off it it has to be logged back in before it connects to wifi. So Apples "fix" to get current backup by connecting to known wifi most likely wouldn't have worked unless the device was never turned off.

you mean the 5c DOESN'T have a 2 month battery life? :O
 
Instead of Apple giving the FBI new backdoor code why doesn't the FBI give the phone to Apple and let Apple do what it can to get the data, if they can. This way, whatever is created is done by Apple and can be destroyed. The only issue I see with any compliance from Apple is that as soon as they submit, they will be served with thousands of court orders to do the same to other devices.

Which means resources will be devoted to that, and we won't see a Mac Pro until 2023... Really bad precedence. Currently no software is known to exist to do this. It's the government forcing a private company to build/create something. Apple has done what they can-have helped the FBI, providing them with his iCloud backups. Any records of phone calls/texts can be retrieved from the carrier. What are they hoping to find? The fact he destroyed his personal phone and not this one (this is reported as a work phone) says to me he wasn't stupid enough to leave anything on it anyway or risk being caught from his employer a local government outfit.
 
Let them spy who cares? I have nothing to hide.
Please remove your passcode, and fingerprint ID. Please make it easier for any hacker to get your personal, financial, medical information. Remember you have nothing to hide. Please post you sSN, drivers lic no. Bank account no. below......do your part to prevent the need for hacking.
 
...and you require everyone you email to/from use it as well? How do you keep the addresses private? Email is inherently insecure, and while the steps you're taking make it a little less insecure, it's not by much.

Of course not. My secure emails are between friends, co-workers. We all have email certs and select encryption when email each other. Addresses are never encrypted but the body is encrypted from inception and sitting on any servers. That's how we roll
 
Please remove your passcode, and fingerprint ID. Please make it easier for any hacker to get your personal, financial, medical information. Remember you have nothing to hide. Please post you sSN, drivers lic no. Bank account no. below......do your part to prevent the need for hacking.

Your post gave me an idea. Any time an anti-encryption Bill is introduced in Congress, language should be included that requires that the personal data (including PII) of those that vote for it (and their family members) must be published on a government website for all to see. Because, they have nothing to hide of course and don't seem to think that protecting this data is in any way important.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SantaFeNM
This is the people/Tech Companies/Tim Cook vs the goons who call themselves our government. Stand fast on the tiller Mr. Cook, treacherous seas ahead!!!

Actually this whole thing is a good "shill test" of our congress and senate. Note carefully who votes for Big Brother and VOTE THEM OUT!!!

Gotta take care of lobbyists. That's a huge problem within American Politics. Someone has an active interest in more FBI presence and less blockades known as "rights and principles."
 
Your post gave me an idea. Any time an anti-encryption Bill is introduced in Congress, language should be included that requires that the personal data (including PII) of those that vote for it (and their family members) must be published on a government website for all to see. Because, they have nothing to hide of course and don't seem to think that protecting this data is in any way important.
brilliant and if government won't do it, may some hacker would as a public service.
 
We always hear Android market share is higher than Apple's - yet they are completely absent from this discussion. The only conclusion can be: ANDROID already HAS A BACKDOOR !
 
  • Like
Reactions: cwt1nospam
You have your iPhone at home. It is locked. Even though it is locked, it detects your WiFi network at home and it knows the password for the network. It connects to iCloud, which it can do because it knows your iCloud password. And then it backs up to iCloud even though your iPhone is locked. If you change your iCloud password that doesn't work automatically anymore, because your phone doesn't know the correct password anymore. Of course you can and will unlock your phone, change the iCloud password on the phone, and backups work again. But the FBI cannot unlock the iPhone.

So Apple can read your backups (when the FBI shows them a search warrant) without any need to break into your phone. And they told the FBI a way to get the data from the iPhone without breaking into the phone. And because some idiot changed the iCloud password, that method doesn't work anymore.

I get this part. I just think in this one case - what does it matter? Either Apple can assist them via the cloud or (if possible) through THAT device. I'm not talking about long term plans to make ALL phones with a backdoor. I just see little differenced in this specific case.
 
Someone has probably suggested this at this point, but would it be possible for Apple to just unlock the phone themselves without releasing the tools they use to do so?
 
The iCloud backups belong to the owner of the phone - the company that bought it - not the individual. Apple did not violate anyone's privacy by turning those over to the FBI.

Providing a back door for the FBI to hack iPhones with impunity however, is not something they are likely to do.

Those of you who think this is a single phone issue are not paying attention. The Patriot Act would immediately be used to allow anti terrorist agencies into any phone they got their hands on.

Android phones are all exposed today because this back door already existed and it's now illegal to close it...
 
  • Like
Reactions: gigi1701
Someone has probably suggested this at this point, but would it be possible for Apple to just unlock the phone themselves without releasing the tools they use to do so?

Apple cannot unlock your phone. Yes I know, no one believes this, but it's true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gigi1701
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.