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I thought you needed the original password to reset the password

Since this was a County owned work phone issued to Farook, I doubt it was set to back up to his personal iCloud account with his user set password. It would (should) have come with a set of agreed circumstances under which it could be used and a back up schedule set by the County to a County owned iCloud account. At least this is how a reasonably run business with hundreds of employees and work phones would have managed it. If I ran the business, I would enable encryption on all of them, too. Can you imagine IBM staff trading un secured text messages and emails about ongoing projects?

If the County wasn't the one responsible for password management on these phones and their associated accounts, then every phone returned to them by an employee moving on would be a brick unless the they did a factory reset or included all password info.

Come to think of it, Farook may have had nothing to do with the settings on the phone.

Dale
 
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Apparently there is a rather old backup on iCloud, and Apple delivered that to the FBI.

So much for supporting privacy...

Although I don't mind giving away information on criminals(like a search warrant), the fact that Apple can give away your online backups means it was not secured in the first place and Apple employees can look into your stuff.
 
So much for supporting privacy...

Although I don't mind giving away information on criminals(like a search warrant), the fact that Apple can give away your online backups means it was not secured in the first place and Apple employees can look into your stuff.
I think what it means is that the law is settled when it comes to what's stored on Apple servers. If they get a warrant, they have to turn it over.

Apple used to keep an encryption key to get into the data that's stored on your phone (some of which is not part of the backup), and the law was settled on that, too. If they got a warrant, they had to turn over the key.

Now they don't keep the key. The key is only stored on your phone. Apple doesn't have it, so they don't have to turn it over. They CAN'T turn it over, because they don't have it. And that encryption key is kept safe on your iPhone with a passcode, which Apple doesn't know. The passcode may be accessible with your fingerprint. Apple doesn't have that either. And they've built safeguards into the phone so that your fingerprint only unlocks the passcode under certain circumstances. If you reboot the phone, or let enough time go by, or use the wrong finger too many times, the phone goes back to requiring you to put in the passcode. Again, none of this is stored on Apple's servers (which is why you can still get into your phone when you're not connected to Apple).

This gives you options. You don't have to back up your iPhone to iCloud. You don't have to back it up at all. And you have some control over what data gets backed up. You can set up your phone to self-destruct (not physically) if you put in the wrong passcode too many times. You don't have to post on FaceBook.

Now we get into law that's not settled. Apple can write software that makes your phone more secure. They do that all the time in the form of software updates that plug security leaks Apple knows about. They can also write software that makes your phone less secure, by introducing new security leaks.

The FBI wants Apple to write a version of iOS that has a security hole (taking away the code that self-destructs the key if you type in the wrong passcode too many times). And they want to install that version of iOS on a phone that's currently locked (normally you have to unlock your phone to install new software). Apple doesn't want to do this.

Another thing Apple doesn't want to do is create a version of iOS with a back door for law enforcement agencies like the FBI, the NYPD, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, China's Ministry of State Security, or the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence to use whenever they have whatever is the equivalent of a warrant in those countries.

This case happens to involve terrorism. But a court order is a court order, and the next court order demanding that Apple do the same thing could be to find out if Marco Rubio hired a gardener and didn't pay his portion of the payroll taxes. Or whether Madonna has pictures on her phone of Bill Cosby molesting her. Or whether you violated your child custody agreement by taking the kids to Disney World.
 
This case happens to involve terrorism. But a court order is a court order, and the next court order demanding that Apple do the same thing could be to find out if Marco Rubio hired a gardener and didn't pay his portion of the payroll taxes. Or whether Madonna has pictures on her phone of Bill Cosby molesting her. Or whether you violated your child custody agreement by taking the kids to Disney World.

"but it won't! we promise it's a one time thing!"
 
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Now it seems some of the family members of those killed are filing a legal brief against Apple. So where does it end? Apple needs to stay strong
 
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Now who's the terrorist
Just look at USA gun history:

Don't agree with somebody's policies shoot (John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, keep adding who you remember)

Don't agree with abortion, shoot doctors at the clinics.

Don't agree with getting fired (postal workers) shoot everybody.

Even in my neighborhood (5 minutes away) somebody got fired for having child porn on his company computer.
Came back after being fired shot 3 and killed 1.

Don't want to research any more, but there is a long list.

BTW:Lately that happens in Europe a lot too.
It seems that anybody who doesn't agree with democracy now takes things into their own (unlawful) hands.
Kind of a payback to politicians who keep doing business as usual.
 
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How does the FBI plan to keep that software safe from China, Russia, etc., not to mention criminals throughout the world? You can't open Pandora's box just enough that only you can see in.
Exactly. Someone else is bound to get their hands on the software. They always do.
 
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Not that I disagree with your underlying points, but that was research?

Yes, I googled (= research these days LOL) a few more things trying to add more examples, but I thought my point about people killing or shooting them when they do not agree with what others do or the law is on their side was enough.

Since I am 64 years old I have seen a lot, but forgive me if my memory is no longer the freshest.
 
I said to I'm blue in the face! Apple doesn't have this phone and the FBI won't allow Apple access to the COUNTY OWNED iPhone! So all thes sob called posters constantly overlook this point! The FBI wants to strong arm Apple to make a software back door for ALL iOS devices! That is what Apple is fighting!

Please posters get your facts straight before you blindly popu Apple every chance you get. All smart phone manufactures have the same chill at this development!
 
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I don't want Apple creating a back door to the iPhone, but I do understand why they provide law enforcement with backups from iCloud. I'm wondering if Apple could hack the iCloud account of that phone to allow it to backup with any password. That way, they wouldn't have to hack the phone and the FBI could get what they say they want.
 
I don't want Apple creating a back door to the iPhone, but I do understand why they provide law enforcement with backups from iCloud. I'm wondering if Apple could hack the iCloud account of that phone to allow it to backup with any password. That way, they wouldn't have to hack the phone and the FBI could get what they say they want.
The whole iCloud backup thing sounds like a desperate red herring put out by Apple. Even Apple says there were no iCloud backup since I think Oct 19, so mist likely the automatic backup has been disabled in the phone. If that is the case then the fact that the password was changed would have no significance, since it would never do automatic backups in any case.
 
Come to think of it, Farook may have had nothing to do with the settings on the phone.

Dale

thanks, I didn't know the phone was the County's . I thought it was his personal phone. Coming to think of it, maybe someone at the County thought he could help out by resetting the iCloud password -mistaking thinking that the iCloud password and the phone password is the one and the same thing.
 
thanks, I didn't know the phone was the County's . I thought it was his personal phone. Coming to think of it, maybe someone at the County thought he could help out by resetting the iCloud password -mistaking thinking that the iCloud password and the phone password is the one and the same thing.

The personal phones of the shooter and his wife were crushed beyond any salvage before the attack. All of the hard drives of their computers are missing and the FBI has searched a lake for them to no avail. This is why many of us believe there is nothing of significance on the work phone the FBI is pressing Apple over.

From what I read, the FBI told the County to reset the iCloud account password for this phone.

Dale
 
Looks like this going to trial! But even if the FBI wins the information in court, it might be obsolete since Apple have the right to appeal! Final verdict might be years away!
 
Looks like this going to trial! But even if the FBI wins the information in court, it might be obsolete since Apple have the right to appeal! Final verdict might be years away!
But even if it is obsolete (and possibly even more so) Apple will be in trouble. Regardless how you stand on the matter this is probably not good for Apple, either legally or in public opinion.
 
I think what it means is that the law is settled when it comes to what's stored on Apple servers. If they get a warrant, they have to turn it over.

Apple used to keep an encryption key to get into the data that's stored on your phone (some of which is not part of the backup), and the law was settled on that, too. If they got a warrant, they had to turn over the key.

Now they don't keep the key. The key is only stored on your phone. Apple doesn't have it, so they don't have to turn it over. They CAN'T turn it over, because they don't have it. And that encryption key is kept safe on your iPhone with a passcode, which Apple doesn't know. The passcode may be accessible with your fingerprint. Apple doesn't have that either. And they've built safeguards into the phone so that your fingerprint only unlocks the passcode under certain circumstances. If you reboot the phone, or let enough time go by, or use the wrong finger too many times, the phone goes back to requiring you to put in the passcode. Again, none of this is stored on Apple's servers (which is why you can still get into your phone when you're not connected to Apple).

This gives you options. You don't have to back up your iPhone to iCloud. You don't have to back it up at all. And you have some control over what data gets backed up. You can set up your phone to self-destruct (not physically) if you put in the wrong passcode too many times. You don't have to post on FaceBook.

Now we get into law that's not settled. Apple can write software that makes your phone more secure. They do that all the time in the form of software updates that plug security leaks Apple knows about. They can also write software that makes your phone less secure, by introducing new security leaks.

The FBI wants Apple to write a version of iOS that has a security hole (taking away the code that self-destructs the key if you type in the wrong passcode too many times). And they want to install that version of iOS on a phone that's currently locked (normally you have to unlock your phone to install new software). Apple doesn't want to do this.

Another thing Apple doesn't want to do is create a version of iOS with a back door for law enforcement agencies like the FBI, the NYPD, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, China's Ministry of State Security, or the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence to use whenever they have whatever is the equivalent of a warrant in those countries.

This case happens to involve terrorism. But a court order is a court order, and the next court order demanding that Apple do the same thing could be to find out if Marco Rubio hired a gardener and didn't pay his portion of the payroll taxes. Or whether Madonna has pictures on her phone of Bill Cosby molesting her. Or whether you violated your child custody agreement by taking the kids to Disney World.

So long story short...

Can Apple employees read my stored info on their servers or is it encrypted?
 
Apple used to keep an encryption key to get into the data that's stored on your phone (some of which is not part of the backup), and the law was settled on that, too. If they got a warrant, they had to turn over the key.

Now they don't keep the key. The key is only stored on your phone. Apple doesn't have it, so they don't have to turn it over. They CAN'T turn it over, because they don't have it.
Well Apple says they don't keep the key but there is no proof of that. It would really be surprised if they didn't. Personally I wouldn't believe anything that Mr. Cook said; he just does not come across as trustworthy.
 
Well Apple says they don't keep the key but there is no proof of that. It would really be surprised if they didn't. Personally I wouldn't believe anything that Mr. Cook said; he just does not come across as trustworthy.

Apple used to use an encryption algorithm that had a master key. They now use one that does not. The iPhone comes with no password. You create it. You own it. That has been established in articles relating to this topic to no end.

What has Cook done at Apple that makes you believe he can't be trusted?

Dale
 
Just look at USA gun history:

Don't agree with somebody's policies shoot (John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, keep adding who you remember)

Don't agree with abortion, shoot doctors at the clinics.

Don't agree with getting fired (postal workers) shoot everybody.

Even in my neighborhood (5 minutes away) somebody got fired for having child porn on his company computer.
Came back after being fired shot 3 and killed 1.

Don't want to research any more, but there is a long list.

BTW:Lately that happens in Europe a lot too.
It seems that anybody who doesn't agree with democracy now takes things into their own (unlawful) hands.
Kind of a payback to politicians who keep doing business as usual.


Sadly, these actions are just a copy of US foreign policy: don't like that slaved people in Cuba got rid of your dictator ? Put an embargo on all the people for 5 decades and put mines in their harbours...

Don't like that people somewher had free elections and chose others than your marionettes, like in chile (allende)? No problem - you organize a bombing of the ree-elected president in his residence and install a bloody dictator who filles a whole soccer-stade with intellectuals and kills them all - like he does with about at least 100.000 other during the following decades.

Guess who supported the dictatorship of the last countries after WWII in Europe (spain and Portugal until late 70's) and supported the military of greece "preventing" moderate left parties from winning the elections and so starting a terrible dictatorship for a decade? Always the childish and destructive US-foreign policy.
 
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