Apple Says iOS is Safer Than Android Because Sideloading Apps Isn't Allowed

[vipergts2207]

It's not that you do or not. If it's made into law, you and everyone else WILL have to deal with this. You can't not have the side loading ability if the phone/iOS can do it. It's there if you want it or not, use it or not. We are all affected by this.

This system is trying to give the consumer choice. But in fact they are taking away my choice. I can't "not" (double negative) have side loading's vulnerabilities affect me.

That very much depends on implementation.

 

[djphat2000]

There is no evidence to support this at all, but it looks good on a PowerPoint slide I'm sure

They literally showed a study conducted by Nokia to prove their point.

 

[Wildkraut]

Bwahaha of course is safer because there is no sideloading, simply because they don’t want enforced sideloading, which will come anyway.

Security through obscurity is the right term here!

 

[djphat2000]

That very much depends on implementation.

You can look at Android and see how well it's implemented already. Apple solved this issue already by not allowing it.

 

[Cosmosent]

In they became Law, to the Market, side-loading & side-paying would represent Chinks in Apple's Armor.

Would NOT be surprised if Apple trades under (& stays under) $100 USD per share if it happens !

 

[Wildkraut]

Not true, safer needs restrictions sometimes.

Just like chastity belts against venereal diseases! 🤣🤮

 

[Shirasaki]

Oh yeah yeah Apple PR machine is never running at this speed than before. From “what’s a computer” to now this. Publicly attacking sideloading is just a distraction of avoiding other issues existing on App Store (scam apps for example). Of course, all of those sour stories between Apple and random individual developers are not present just because.

So, According to Apple’s logic, if sideloading is so bad, how about third party apps themselves? Maybe Apple should start mandating which app you can and cannot install, rather than giving users choice because “we are protecting our users security and online safety” and “choice lead to malware and virus being downloaded and installed”. Why not we go back to iPhone OS 1 days where there is no AppStore and everything is launched from Safari? Heck, we could stream games from Safari on iOS, so it must be it right?

Ridiculous.

PS: Someone mentioned CSAM. Oh yeah, now Apple can say “we scan harmful contents on your phone so YOU ARE SAFE WITH US”. Why Apple fails in Chinese market then?

 

[Shirasaki]

I think the it’s even more secure to use telegraph.

For example, if we can sideload, I would get YouTube Vanced. (https://vancedapp.com/)

Without sideloading, Apple can be sued and pressured to remove apps that violate the local law (e.g. China, pirating, politically incorrect) or some other stakeholder’ EULA (e.g. YouTube, DMCA). Apple should just use the same noterization system on macOS.

Sure, let’s lock down macOS from next macOS update and force remove ALL apps installed by user that is NOT from App Store without notice. I am sure this will not backfire among all loyal Apple user base.

 

[Havoc035]

Bwahaha of course is safer because there is no sideloading, simply because they don’t want enforced sideloading, which will come anyway.

Security through obscurity is the right term here!

Yeah, so if you had actually Googled that term before randomly using it you would have understood it means something completely different.

 

[Wildkraut]

My mom and dad, both nearly 80ys old, didn’t get any malware yet on their Androids. Hmmm they must be using it wrong. 😂 Ohh Apple, lobbying at it finest, good that Verstager isn’t dumb.

 

[Havoc035]

I think changes are required when it comes to the App Store. The fees seem too high and banning game streaming apps like XCloud doesn't make sense at all. Forcing iOS to open up however doesn't make sense either. And while of course Apple is using this security argument for their own gains, you'd have to be stupid to not get that sideloading will lead to more malware. iOS users as a demographic are just way to interesting for criminals to ignore.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Well of course there is going to be more malware on Android because Android is the most used mobile OS with approx 72% marketshare. Apple only has approx. 26% marketshare.

If a hacker/criminal wants to cause the most trouble, they are going to target the dominant players in the market because that is where the most damage is going to be done.

You're correct about the worldwide market share... but I think your comment about hackers and targets needs some review.

Even though iPhones "only" have 26% market share... there are still a billion iPhones out in the world today. And those iPhones are used by people that tend to have a lot of money and/or have valuable data to harvest. That's quite a lucrative target.

I would imagine the bad guys would prefer to hack iPhone users... rather than hack a larger collective group of users who use Android phones that may be in poorer developing nations.

The iPhone may be a "small" target... but it will be quite attractive to hackers if they get the chance.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

There are 10x the number of iOS/iPadOS users compared to macOS users, and yet there is a bigger virus/malware problem on the Mac. Do you not see the potential for massive problems with all of the mobile devices in existence?

 

[SqB]

It's not that you do or not. If it's made into law, you and everyone else WILL have to deal with this. You can't not have the side loading ability if the phone/iOS can do it. It's there if you want it or not, use it or not. We are all affected by this.

This system is trying to give the consumer choice. But in fact they are taking away my choice. I can't "not" (double negative) have side loading's vulnerabilities affect me.

This X100. There are lots of folks on this thread who just seem to have purchased the wrong phone.

Personally, I intentionally purchased a device that doesn't have these options. I intentionally have all my personal devices on this closed ecosystem. It's a choice for me and I'm very happy with it. I have a background and education in computer science. I work in IT on highly sensitive software. I don't want any frustration in my personal life.

If Apple allows sideloading, it should 100% void any AppleCare claims for software support (not hardware unless the damage can be proven to be from the software i.e. Magnasun-moss). Get to the genius bar, they pull up your name, find out you sideloaded, they then offer to help you wipe/reload the device to default or point you over to the Best Buy so you can talk to that crack Geek Squad. This is why all my family has Apple devices. If it breaks, they fix it, because they run the whole show.

Professionally, for everyone saying sideloading will be a "choice", you apparently don't have any experience working with large vendors (equipment and hardware) who don't give a darn about development. These are the types of companies that have been forced to invest in good developers over the past few years so that users can use things like iPads to do work. If these companies could, they would totally have us sideload garbage apps with private and/or deprecated APIs and go back to spending 0 time/money on app development. This is why we have computers running Windows 7 that we can't get rid of in multi-billion dollar companies. The signing process is forcing people to make better products. It's not the holy grail, but I would give it almost all the credit for the high quality of apps we see across all app stores now. Apple set the bar.

 

[djphat2000]

I'm skeptical of Apple's claims.

The Macintosh is wide open: we can side load, we can write our own kexts, we can use alternative boot loaders, and yet the Mac is pretty secure. So I'm not buying it. I am on the side of giving users choice. No one has to use an alternative App Store if they don't want to.

They don't have to use the alt App Store, correct. However, the ability for that is enabled by default (if they are forced to do so). So if I choose to not use it, it doesn't matter. It's there. I can't close the open door into my system, my device anymore. The door is now there when it was not, and is open because it has to be. This takes my choice away. I choose iOS for many reasons, but one of them being security. If I wanted this, I would buy and Android.

Yes, you can do what you wish on a full Mac OS X computer (or PC for that matter). This device is NOT that. The OS is not exactly the same. It lacks many desktop OS features, and you don't currently have proper access to the filesystem like you do on a full desktop. It's made this way for a reason. It's a small device with minimal power (battery) and simply does not need those functions to work well. It's also mostly always ON, which means it has network connections to it all the time. It knows your exact location on earth to within few feet/meters. It's not a Mac/PC. No more than you can say an Xbox is a PC. It has functionality similar to a PC. It has an OS based off the Windows OS. But, it's made to connect to your TV, and work with joysticks, and shop on ONE store and pay ONE party.

And regarding some apps for school not being available on the main App Store and thus possibly resulting in security risks, why couldn't the school(s) ensure a secure website for users to download the app onto the phone?

My kid just started kindergarten. The schools main page is not secure. I'm sure other schools are. But, they deal with tight budgets, and limited (in many cases) IT depts. And that again forces some other party to do something they already don't have too.

Just like what happens on the Macintosh? One could argue that with Apple's current policies, certain legitimate apps are unavailable because Apple didn't want to allow them onto the App Store (e.g., Wifi Explorer).

Macintosh is the desktop, iOS is the mobile device. Two separate things linked to a similar OS foundation. They are not the same. Could they be. Sure, if Apple wanted to invest time and money to make it the same. But that is not for us to demand or require. We don't own the business. We have a choice to purchase what they make or not. And for the 2-5% of the population that likes to tinker and play with the technology they buy. This is not worth the investment to Apple. It never was on the Mac side, and it continues on the iOS side. You have Microsoft, and Android for that, and nothing stopping you from going that route.

 

[Wildkraut]

Yeah, so if you had actually Googled that term before randomly using it you would have understood it means something completely different.

So search again young padawan…

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

Sideloading would not prevent private API usage which is your biggest threat. Nation-states could sideload apps that bypass Apple and OS rules and allow them to listen in and have access to the entirety of the phone contents.

I'm aware that private api's, such as PiP, would be opened up for use, but what are these apis that would allow to bypass all security and basically force open the whole OS? If such apis exist, is there a proof of concept? If they exist then it is very simple to prove by sideloading with Xcode

 

[Shirasaki]

So, you agree that it’s the user, not the system, right? You should improve the tech literacy of your daughter. Teach her cyber security, programming, and software engineering.

Oh yeah, when the released product has issues, always blame the user instead of the designer and/or manufacturer because ANY and ALL fault is caused by end user. Who needs warranties anyways?

Apple does check that those apps do not use private APIs that could potentially pose a risk as they cited.

Except when Apple is the one who abuses private API to gain advantage against competitors, such as Apple Music app and other third party better music apps that hooks into Apple Music libraries.
(And safari is still buggy af)

My question is why do people feel entitled to bending Apple's ecosystem to their will? If you want the freedom to sideload, buy an Android, if you want Apple's walled garden, buy an iPhone. Its really as simple as that! Choice exists, vote with your wallet. If all the sideloading fans leave for Android then Apple will be forced to adjust to a changing market, my guess is that all of 4 people will leave.

Because what Apple supposed to do is developing and building a product that users are willing to buy and use. Users dont have much power “bending Apple” per se because nowadays Apple can safely ignore any request that is not mentioned by more than 10 million users.
And oh the “use android” argument again…… I get it. Dodging issue is much easier than facing it.

I’m pretty sure doing so violates the Apple Dev Program TOS.

Then Apple should never allow this to happen in the first place. Actual devs don’t need those stuff anyways. Just introduce special dev account annual fees discounts for students etc.

Apple chose to do that and they are going to face how user uses it.

 

[Cosmosent]

Because the pendulum had swung so far in Apple's favor for such a long time, it created alot of Enemies for Apple.

And they want Payback !

Side-loading & Side-paying are both very-likely to become Law in the EU, the U.K., select Asian countries, & here in the States.

 

[toobravetosave]

All these people would have eagerly been defending microsoft and ma bell too there's no accounting for cults

 

[vipergts2207]

You can look at Android and see how well it's implemented already. Apple solved this issue already by not allowing it.

You have to go into an advanced menu and turn on the ability to sideload apps. So how exactly does "side loading's vulnerabilities affect" people like you who don't want to turn that feature on?

 

[djphat2000]

I want sideloading just because of the stupid restrictions Apple impose on some tipes of apps, like Stadia and xCloud. It's not piracy, it's legitimate apps from legitimate companies that i'm unable to use natively on MY phone or not at all on my TV, all because apple impose random restrictions on a service that basically is netflix but with games, why they allow movie streamming plataforms but not gamming ones? that's stupid and the only reason I want sideloading at all.

Microsoft created an HTML based game streaming. Works great, use it on my iPad Pro with an Xbox controller. Totally outside the AppStore, no cut to Apple. Apple approves of this method. If the streaming app was to be in the Appstore. Apple wants to be able to review each game, and have each game available separately for you to download and purchase. Apple's game streaming service works the same way. You can subscribe to the whole or just get the games you want individually. This is their way. If you want another way, you can pick another platform.

 

[toobravetosave]

Microsoft created an HTML based game streaming. Works great, use it on my iPad Pro with an Xbox controller. Totally outside the AppStore, no cut to Apple. Apple approves of this method. If the streaming app was to be in the Appstore. Apple wants to be able to review each game, and have each game available separately for you to download and purchase. Apple's game streaming service works the same way. You can subscribe to the whole or just get the games you want individually. This is their way. If you want another way, you can pick another platform.

Or we can support laws that change the platform

 

[imasterus]

And prison is safer than free society because there are far fewer traffic accidents

Plus guards everywhere to keep all in safe.

 

[vipergts2207]

Or we can support laws that change the platform

Yup, advocate for the change you want to see in the world.