Apple Says Meta is Making Unreasonable Interoperability Requests Under Europe's DMA Requirements

[jinnj]

I remember when Facebook released their own phone created by HTC. Of all Android phones, it was the worst battery life ever. HTC leaked that FB insisted that GPS data is constantly sent back to FB. When Zuck was asked about it... Let the users carry a charger with them. Can't believe that phone didn't take off.

Facebook also got busted playing an silent audio stream on devices just to record the phone's location for each server request. It's ******** like this why I always shutdown any social media app.

 

[paradox00]

If Apple were to have to grant all of these requests, Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp could enable Meta to read on a user's device all of their messages and emails, see every phone call they make or receive, track every app that they use, scan all of their photos, look at their files and calendar events, log all of their passwords, and more.

Exactly what part of Meta logging ALL of your passwords sounds good to you, please be specific.

This is an Apple design problem. They have designed iOS in a manner where the only way to keep some things secure is to hide them from view and keep them exclusive to Apple. They didn't have to design it that way, and it's actually poor design: once compromised, everything is compromised. Security through obscurity isn't a real security mechanism.

Take the Meta Quest as an example. In my time with the Quest, my single greatest pet peeve was not having access to my messages and phone notifications. I don't know what Meta's requests were, but this was probably one of them. If Apple has no means of allowing messaging on the Quest without granting the Meta Quest iOS app unlimited access to read and write all your messages, that's Apple's problem to solve, not Meta's. Meta's request is only unreasonable because Apple hasn't done their homework, nor are they incentivized to. It's beneficial for Apple if your phone's messages are available on the Vision Pro, but not on competing headsets after all.

There have been companies that have attempted to sidestep this by acting as an intermediary where you give them your Apple ID login info and they log into to a remote MacOS instance on your behalf. This is obviously very insecure, but it's on Apple to put a better (and far more secure) option on the table. No one else can do it for them. If they don't, "Apple doesn't believe in interoperability" will remain a factual statement.

 

[ghanwani]

It's fun watching the big guys fight each other. 🍿

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Maybe they want to release their own Password manager app, who knows. Most of the stuff they already have access to anyway. Like they already ask to get access to your whole photo library to make suggestions for posts for example. Calenders also isn't really surprising, they need to be able to access the calendar to add events or birthdays?

There is already a secure method to integrate third-party password managers, and no, it doesn't work by having to read the passwords from the other password managers. There is no reasonable need for Meta or any other company to access such information under the interoperability banner.

 

[LV426]

If Apple has to put up with this stuff I hope it becomes a two way street and suddenly Meta and every company has to start open all their apis and functionality to everyone else. See if the medicine tastes as good when they have to take it themselves.

Do Meta offer an API to supply all the information they’ve gathered on their users?

 

[2540497]

One of these days the EU is going to push Apple too far

 

[dragje]

Interesting matter. On one hand, I believe that Europe's DMA regulations are important for consumers, particularly regarding privacy. On the other hand, this should not result in hampering innovation and/or accessibility for external apps.

I am curious how the European Commission will rule on this.

 

[dragje]

One of these days the EU is going to push Apple too far

Well, my iPhone has USB-C now, thanks to the EU

 

[AppliedMicro]

If you own a shopping mall, it’s reasonable for you to have a way to get into the stores when they’re closed if you need to in case of emergency

So is special access for the government in case of emergency.
But we’re no talking about emergencies here.

Please tell me where Apple has any sort of monopoly

They have a monopoly on the sale of iOS applications and digital transactions to consumers on iOS.
Which is a dedicated market, cause iOS is a platform people but in to.

All true except Europe steals under the guise of ”consumerism”.

Consumers’ interests are protected, and competition is encouraged to serve it.

 

[AppliedMicro]

For all those naysayers: Imagine how ******** it would be if Apple decided that the only mice that worked with Macs were Apple's own Magic Mouse. Wouldn't that suck?

But… but… but… that mouse could click anywhere on your screen!

They’d probably tell us how only Apple can keep us safe and how dangerouse third-party mice are.

 

[AppliedMicro]

„Some of the sensitive technologies Meta has requested to access“:

https://developer.apple.com/support/downloads/DMA-Interoperability-Dec-2024.pdf

• beginning that list with AirPlay of all things
• „calling it „altering functionality“
• and claiming it would be „completely unrelated“ to the use of Meta devices such as smart glasses

👉 Apple is trying to bull**** everyone once again.

Seems it‘s not about Facebook, Instagram pr WhatsApp. It‘s about anticompetitively withholding interoperability for Meta hardware to work with iOS devices. Stifling competition, by ensuring that no one else and other wearable headset can compete with the Vision Pro on fair terms. Claiming „security“ and privacy concerns as a ploy to prop up their own competing wearable headset. No surprise though, given how Apple how muted consumer reaction has been to the product that was supposed to define Timmy‘s legacy as their next „big thing“.

 

[AlexESP]

These stupid "ecosystems" are the tech industry going backwards and ******tifying EVERYTHING! I want to use the best tool for the job, and look, I love Apple, but SOMETIMES their tool is not the best tool for the job.

For all those naysayers: Imagine how ******** it would be if Apple decided that the only mice that worked with Macs were Apple's own Magic Mouse. Wouldn't that suck?

But I guess this is an argument against these regulations. There’s no law that mandates external mice on the Mac, but Apple allows that. Probably, because customers would be very angry if they couldn’t use them, and would stop buying Macs.

I understand that ecosystems, with their upsides and downsides, are not important to you. But it seems like Apple’s idea of an ecosystem is attractive to many many customers. If they go “too far”, customers will punish them. There’s no need for a law created by some people who won’t suffer its consequences if they’re wrong.

 

[SanderEvers]

Well, my iPhone has USB-C now, thanks to the EU

Apple implemented USB-C in the iPhone 15. The requirement is next year. So no, this is 1000% false.

They have a monopoly on the sale of iOS applications and digital transactions to consumers on iOS.
Which is a dedicated market, cause iOS is a platform people but in to.

Consumers’ interests are protected, and competition is encouraged to serve it.

1. Our local groceries store has a monopoly on the sale of their in house products. Nintendo has a monopoly on selling Switch games, Sony has a monopoly on selling PlayStation games. Microsoft has a monopoly on selling Windows apps and XBOX games.

2. Customers' interests are not protected, if you want a closed down system where only a few trusted (by the user) companies are allowed any access.

 

[ForkHandles]

I agree. There are some good arguments Apple could make here, but the ones in this response aren’t it. Apple is essentially saying, “We don’t want to let users give Meta access to sensitive information that only Apple has previously had access to.” That’s not a safety argument. It’s just a corporate preference.

Yes and no.

Apples business model relies on selling hardware and software and services.

Meta’s is solely about selling user data to advertisers.

This is more than just a corporate preference surely.

 

[Ctrlos]

Is this not the perfect opportunity for Apple to kick Meta from its platforms unless it stops harvesting consumer data? They keep going on about privacy. Maybe it’s time they did a blanket ban on all apps collecting any user metrics for commercial purposes at all?

 

[cjsuk]

Well, my iPhone has USB-C now, thanks to the EU

I wouldn’t quote the EU as having any real motivation behind this.

Apple are on the USB consortium and had design input. They also released the first devices with USB-C as standard and maintain the best implementation on any devices out there. It was going to happen and the EU made much fanfare over lining up their legislation with what the vendor was going to do anyway.

It’s like clapping at yourself for writing an order that the sun was going to come up the next morning.

 

[patjem]

If you only see the difference between a META app installed on my iPhone and my Android. On Android they want all your data. And then I ask, why?

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple implemented USB-C in the iPhone 15. The requirement is next year. So no, this is 1000% false.

The requirement is next year - when they will still sell these iPhone 15s as new product.
What iPhones models are they’re going to sell next year? iPhone 14, 15 and 16.
What iPhone models did they implement USB-C for? iPhone 14, 15 and 16.
They implemented it exactly and only for the iPhone models that they‘re continuing to sell next year.

So your argument is 10000% refuted.

Our local groceries store has a monopoly on the sale of their in house products

Apple‘s reach goes way beyond your local vicinity - and has more people in the ecosystem (even in just the EU) than most countries in the world have population.

Customers' interests are not protected, if you want a closed down system where only a few trusted (by the user) companies are allowed any access.

They are free to limit their purchases to the one shop they‘re trusting.

 

[Robin Bonathan]

EU members should delete all apps made my meta.

If only it was that easy, WhatsApp is ingrained into spain. Everyone uses it even government. I wish it was not so.

 

[itti]

Of course. What can you expect more from Meta?

 

[SanderEvers]

The requirement is next year - when they will still sell these iPhone 15s as new product.
They implemented it exactly and only for the iPhone models that they‘re continuing to sell next year.

So your argument is 10000% refuted.

Apple developed USB-C and was moving to USB-C from the first 12" MacBook. So no, it's still for 100000000% not because of the EU.

Before the EU deadline they added USB-C to:
1. Every Mac
2. Every iPad
3. Every charger
4. Every headphone
5. Every Apple TV
and 6.Every iPhone.

Apple‘s reach goes way beyond your local vicinity - and has more people in the ecosystem (even in just the EU) than most countries in the world have population.

Apple is big yes, but some of those groceries stores are equally big.

They are free to limit their purchases to the one shop they‘re trusting.

But they are not free to limit access to their devices from external sources. Which extremely dangerous.

 

[sir1963nz]

If this gets allowed anyone sane person should delete anything META off their iPhones

Or in my case it was NEVER put on in the first place, and never will be.

I lock my car, I lock up my house, strangers do not just get to "walk in" to my home and my life, why would I treat social media any differently ?

The people I would want to know on social media are already friends and family in real life.
Reality is a great place to live, No celebrities, No influencers, No "follow" or "likes", no adverts , no tracking, no scammers, no fake accounts, no phishing, no counterfeit goods, no fake prizes , no surveys.

But I do get to play with nerf guns with my grandkids, splash around in the pool, go to the beach with them too. We meet for family events, holidays, we are there when they need help. We laugh, cry, hug, encourage in real life, not with an emoji on a screen. The rewards of real life to us are worth far more than any social medial platform.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple developed USB-C and was moving to USB-C from the first 12" MacBook. So no, it's still for 100000000% not because of the EU.

It doesn’t take 10 years to migrate your lineup.
And Apple still released new product models with Lightning through 2021 and 2022.

Before the EU deadline they added USB-C to:
1. Every Mac
2. Every iPad
3. Every charger
4. Every headphone

Just in time for the impending deadline, yes.
For the products they’ll continue to sell (as new from the factory) next year.

Apple developed USB-C and was moving to USB-C from the first 12" MacBook

First 12“ MacBook was in 2015.
Redesigned AirPods Pro 2 were released with Lightning in late 2022.

Mac peripherals (keyboards and mice) were sold with Lightning ports through just a few weeks ago.
Despite being used with Macs that had long migrated to USB-C and never had Lightning connectors.

👉 The story that they were „moving“ to USB-C all that time anyway does not add up.

 

[SanderEvers]

It doesn’t take 10 years to migrate your lineup.
And Apple still released new product models with Lightning through 2021 and 2022.


Just in time for the impending deadline, yes.
For the products they’ll continue to sell (as new from the factory) next year.

Only the AriPods Max and mac accessories were for the deadline, every other product was years before the deadline. So no.

 

[InsideApple]

Everyone saying all EU users should delete all of Meta crap. I tried it several times. Facebook and Insta **** is gone. Tried Whatsapp several times. The problem is, many friends find Whatsapp popular and the best. And you get out of groups too. So I heard stuff like „ah yea right, we have to text you seperately“. Its just too popular. And now in Switzerland (and many other countries) they‘re sleeping regarding RCS support. If the DMA **** is getting passed what that devilish Meta ass****s are requesting, and RCS finally gets supported by carriers, I guess Whatsapp can finally go f*** itself too