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Everything would so much better if we would just worry about consumer protections and let companies navigate around that as they need to.

Company business structures are fully human created entities that are not deities that should be yielded to above individual interests and benefits.

All of this should be in service of what's best for consumers

(directly better, not in some nebulous "but this might make a company maybe make something better eventually for consumers, maybe" way)
Exactly that. Everyone on this board is a consumer. They’re simply cutting off their nose to spite their face.
 
So your answer is if a company doesn’t like it they should go & build their own mobile?
A bit of a silly argument that.
Again you can’t have it both ways by owing the operating system & then releasing things like headphones & watches for said device
Then deliberately give your products special software features to work better with said device that your competitors won’t get
Yeah Apple did so I don’t see why other companies shouldn’t.
 
Because there are fundamentally only two options that dominate the market
& currently nobody is going to break that up
So the only way to mange the situation is to put in regulation like this
They absolutely won’t break that up if they chose not to make products that compete.

It sounds like the regulation is to placate other businesses laziness.
 
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They absolutely won’t break that up if they chose not to make products that compete.

It sounds like the regulation is to placate other businesses laziness.
The problem is Apple are giving their own products an advantage over their competitors.
And that’s the problem because they own the operating system then they can deliberately design software that ultimately gives them an unfair advantage over the competition.
So that in turn is the reason why the EU are doing this because then customers are more likely to choose said product over the competition because of features like that
 
The problem is Apple are giving their own products an advantage over their competitors.
And that’s the problem because they own the operating system then they can deliberately design software that ultimately gives them an unfair advantage over the competition.
So that in turn is the reason why the EU are doing this because then customers are more likely to choose said product over the competition because of features like that
And competitors can give their own products an advantage when they bother to create them.
 
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And competitors can give their own products an advantage when they bother to create them.
Network effects and economies of scale.

No one needs, wants or buys a smartphone operating system without established ecosystem of third-party apps.
That’s why no one is creating one to compete with Android and iOS.
Chicken and egg.
 
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Spotify give itself a massive competitive advantage over other legitimate music services by stealing the music they didn't have the rights to stream.
And the music labels don't go after them? I find that hard to believe. Music labels go after small fries for stealing music (piracy), no way they would let a big fish get away scot-free. Few can match the greed of music labels--underpay artist, over charge customers, DRM the bejeebus out of everything they sell.
 
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And competitors can give their own products an advantage when they bother to create them.
Explain how you can compete with AirPods for example seamless integration with iOS
How is another headphone manufacturer able to compete with that?
 
They absolutely won’t break that up if they chose not to make products that compete.

It sounds like the regulation is to placate other businesses laziness.
This is an impossibility with the current situation. Perhaps regulated to allow breathing space, then yes we can have more contenders in the mobile of space.
 
Explain how you can compete with AirPods for example seamless integration with iOS
How is another headphone manufacturer able to compete with that?
Why didn't they come up with it for over 20 years that bluetooth pairing sucked? Why didn't headphone manufacturers come to Apple and Android and Microsoft and say "hey look this could be better, let's work together to do that?" Why didn't they go to the standards authority and say "let's improve the standard"?

Instead, no one does anything. Apple thinks, hey, this could be better, and then invests tens of millions of dollars, improves it for its own stuff, and then headphone manufactures say "NO FAIR! Apple has to give it to us" That's ridiculous! Take some ownership of your products.

That is what I am talking about - build a better experience using Android. Show us that you can do it. Don't just mooch off of the one company working hard to make things better.

Also, it's not like the headphones don't work on iOS, it's just that they don't pair quite as easily as they do with AirPods. I use Bose headphones every day with my Apple products and it works great. Paired to multiple devices and everything. Is it as smooth to set up as AirPods? No. But that's fine - Bose didn't come up with it so they shouldn't get it for free.
 
Exactly that. Everyone on this board is a consumer. They’re simply cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Speaking for myself, I strongly and firmly believe regulations like the DMA will result in worse products with fewer features. I'd argue you're the ones cutting off your nose to spite your face. Or maybe killing the goose that laid the golden egg is the better analogy - doing something that benefits you in the short term not realizing that it's making things worse long term.
 
Explain how you can compete with AirPods for example seamless integration with iOS
How is another headphone manufacturer able to compete with that?
Bose does it every day! Plenty of headphone manufacturers compete on sound quality, bone conduction, price, all sorts of things. It's not like headphones don't work with iOS, all the feature does is make pairing easier.

And is noted upthread, Apple has already crated an API for this for third parties to use. But that was their decision, not some bureaucrat's.
 
Bose does it every day! Plenty of headphone manufacturers compete on sound quality, bone conduction, price, all sorts of things. It's not like headphones don't work with iOS, all the feature does is make pairing easier.

And is noted upthread, Apple has already crated an API for this for third parties to use. But that was their decision, not some bureaucrat's.
Because if
For example companies like Bose had access to seamless integration with iOS just like AirPods have then it would be a level playing field & then it would ultimately come down to the quality of the product because they would connect the exact same.
So it would come down to sound quality
& price & design of said product
That’s the point
 
Because if
For example companies like Bose had access to seamless integration with iOS just like AirPods have then it would be a level playing field & then it would ultimately come down to the quality of the product because they would connect the exact same.
So it would come down to sound quality
& price & design of said product
That’s the point
Again, I just fundamentally disagree with giving away one company's innovations just because they happen to be successful in another area, in large part because I think it will chill innovation. You disagree.

For what it's worth, I would be just as strongly opposed to this if the EU was demanding Bose give its noise cancellation software to Apple. The noise cancellation is a feature Bose developed and uses to differentiate its products just as the ease in pairing is a feature Apple developed and uses to differentiate theirs. I suspect you also would disagree with making Bose give that to Apple.

If that's true, I'd ask you why you're opposed to giving away one company's differentiating headphone feature away but support taking away another company's differentiating headphone feature.
 
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Again, I just fundamentally disagree with giving away one company's innovations just because they happen to be successful in another area, in large part because I think it will chill innovation. You disagree.

For what it's worth, I would be just as strongly opposed to this if the EU was demanding Bose give its noise cancellation software to Apple. The noise cancellation is a feature Bose developed and uses to differentiate its products just as the ease in pairing is a feature Apple developed and uses to differentiate theirs.
It’s not about noise cancellation features
It’s about the owner of the operating system deliberately giving its own products access to software features over the competition
That makes it an additional selling point over the competition
And that’s the issue
 
For what it's worth, I would be just as strongly opposed to this if the EU was demanding Bose give its noise cancellation software to Apple. The noise cancellation is a feature Bose developed and uses to differentiate its products just as the ease in pairing is a feature Apple developed and uses to differentiate theirs. I suspect you also would disagree with making Bose give that to Apple.
It’s not the same thing. Bose doesn’t limit functionality so it only works with Bose systems. Bose doesn’t control half of the market that most people listen to at least some of their music on.
 
It’s not about noise cancellation features
It’s about the owner of the operating system deliberately giving its own products access to software features over the competition
That makes it an additional selling point over the competition
And that’s the issue
Again, not only do I have zero problem with the owner of the operating system deliberately giving its products access to software features it developed, I think that is how the system SHOULD work. They should be rewarded for developing a great operating system and features that make its products work together, and their competitors shouldn't be rewarded for sitting on their hands for decades and then reaping the rewards of someone actually caring to fix a problem they couldn't bother to.

What you see as an issue, I see as the system working. In other words, it's a feature, not a bug.
 
Speaking for myself, I strongly and firmly believe regulations like the DMA will result in worse products with fewer features. I'd argue you're the ones cutting off your nose to spite your face. Or maybe killing the goose that laid the golden egg is the better analogy - doing something that benefits you in the short term not realizing that it's making things worse long term.
I can see it being bad for Apple - I fail to see how it’s bad for a consumer. Everyone beats on about consumer choice. Choice choice choice. Except with Apple, then they can choose for us.
 
I can see it being bad for Apple - I fail to see how it’s bad for a consumer. Everyone beats on about consumer choice. Choice choice choice. Except with Apple, then they can choose for us.
If you don't see how giving away innovations for free discourages innovation, I don't know what to tell you.
 
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