Apple Says Oppo Engineer Stole Apple Watch Trade Secrets, Gave Presentation to Hundreds

[NewOldStock]

"Oppo says that it conducted a comprehensive search of the systems that Shi had access to, and that there is "no indication that Oppo received any Apple trade secret information" from him."
-----------this above tells the story of one side----------

How could Oppo Search "Apple file systems" and know where about Apple stores them on said files system?

 

[bLackjackj]

Shi has agreed to participate in a deposition, but he has asked to extend the deadline because of a recent medical condition diagnosis

Wow,..what timing! How convenient, Lol

 

[macduke]

he has asked to extend the deadline because of a recent medical condition diagnosis that is "likely to be significantly exacerbated by participation in a lengthy, high-stress, and adversarial proceeding" like the deposition with Apple

If I was being sued by a multi trillion dollar company that I stole trade secrets from, I would suddenly develop a medical condition as well. That’s pretty scary.

 

[HiVolt]

"Chinese" is different from "Chinese nationals," and many, many people in this thread have decided to not make that distinction.

Obviously there is a difference, but China can exert influence and pressure on foreign born citizens of Chinese descent that are in position to obtain information that they want, mostly by threats against family members who still reside in China.

 

[svish]

Think he is guilty. Not expecting Oppo to say so. Apple should be awarded some form of compensation. Waiting to see what will happen.

 

[ju3rg]

Then don't buy made in China products, ever!

I'm trying to avoid Chinese-made products as much as I can and I do not invest in Chinese businesses.

Luckily the US is exerting positive pressure and businesses are starting to untangle supply chains. Apple is now making more products in Vietnam, India and has limited production in the US.

It seems impossible to do, but go to a thrift store, look for things from the 90s and realize that nothing essential came from China back then. There is no reason that needs to be the case today.

 

[chmania]

Hey Tim Apple a word of advice. Don't hire Chinese. You deserve what you got.

Who would he hire with enough technical knowledge? These people are not simply hired; they are headhunted and come in with their own conditions. Without the Asians—Chinese, Indians, etc.—who do you have?

 

[chmania]

That's the phone I'd be buying when it becomes available with my service provider. The next iPhones have a long way to go to catch up with it. Additionally, those phones have a seamless connection with Mac, which even the iPhone doesn't offer.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

I'm trying to avoid Chinese-made products as much as I can and I do not invest in Chinese businesses.

Luckily the US is exerting positive pressure and businesses are starting to untangle supply chains. Apple is now making more products in Vietnam, India and has limited production in the US.

It seems impossible to do, but go to a thrift store, look for things from the 90s and realize that nothing essential came from China back then. There is no reason that needs to be the case today.

Bill Clinton got China into the WTO and gave them most favored nation trading status in the 90s.

United States–China Relations Act of 2000 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[chmania]

China produces over 5 million STEM graduates each year, the most in the world.
China has the largest AI talent pool, with 30,000 active researchers and a large student population.
In 2022, nearly half (47%) of the world's "top-tier" artificial intelligence researchers received their undergraduate degrees from Chinese universities.
In 2022, Chinese universities awarded more than 50,000 STEM doctorates, surpassing the U.S. total of 33,800. (You might find that most of the US doctorates were awarded to Asians.)
As of 2022, recipients from China, India, and South Korea alone accounted for 53% of all doctorates awarded to temporary visa holders. In 2023, nearly half of all temporary visa holders were from China or India alone.

Well, isn't that interesting?

 

[HiVolt]

China produces over 5 million STEM graduates each year, the most in the world.

And yet, they still cheat & steal technology and intellectual property.

 

[chmania]

And yet, they still cheat & steal technology and intellectual property.

Oh, really?!

 

[3rdiguy]

He spilled the Apple sauce! Time for somebody to discover gravity like Isaac Newton! Send the BadApple team to see about him.

 

[pratikindia]

Always we hear about these kinds of espionage where a Chinese national stole trade secrets. Why? Is Apple not vetting properly?

 

[chmania]

Foreign-born individuals made up a larger proportion of higher degree levels in 2021, with 43% of doctoral degree holders in S&E occupations.
A 2024 analysis found that immigrant-origin students -- including naturalised citizens and non-citizens -- represented 32% of all students in U.S. higher education in 2022.
Many foreign-born STEM professionals and students are from Asia (primarily China and India) and Mexico.

• The overwhelming majority of non-citizen students in US higher education are non-white.
• International students from India and China make up the largest share of non-citizen students and are highly concentrated in STEM fields.
• Other non-citizen students, including those who are undocumented, are also predominantly non-white.

Everything in the US is for sale, even education.

 

[vantelimus]

China produces over 5 million STEM graduates each year, the most in the world.
China has the largest AI talent pool, with 30,000 active researchers and a large student population.
In 2022, nearly half (47%) of the world's "top-tier" artificial intelligence researchers received their undergraduate degrees from Chinese universities.
In 2022, Chinese universities awarded more than 50,000 STEM doctorates, surpassing the U.S. total of 33,800. (You might find that most of the US doctorates were awarded to Asians.)
As of 2022, recipients from China, India, and South Korea alone accounted for 53% of all doctorates awarded to temporary visa holders. In 2023, nearly half of all temporary visa holders were from China or India alone.

Well, isn't that interesting?

Comparing Chinese STEM PhD graduate numbers with the West is problematic. China has made huge strides in the quality of their universities since the 1990s. The elite labs in China are now comparable to the top Western labs. The problem with that large number of PhDs awarded, though, is that once you are out of, say, the top 10% and into lower tiers, Chinese university quality becomes far more variable than in the West. So, unless the student is from a top school (e.g. Tsinghua, PKU, Jiao Tong, etc.) the PhD is likely to be more equivalent to an MPhil in the West. This is still nothing to sneeze at, but gives a bit more perspective.

The other caveat about Chinese PhDs is that the level of research autonomy and mentorship is far lower than in the West. In the US, an advisor would typically be mentoring about half as many students. Research topics in China are assigned to the student and directed by the advisor, whereas US PhD students frame and own their research questions. Outside the top Chinese institutions, quantity of work is prized over quality.

So, it is interesting, and the West should heed the juggernaut that China has built. But the West still maintains some educational and research advantages.

 

[ChrisMac47]

Comparing Chinese STEM PhD graduate numbers with the West is problematic. China has made huge strides in the quality of their universities since the 1990s. The elite labs in China are now comparable to the top Western labs. The problem with that large number of PhDs awarded, though, is that once you are out of, say, the top 10% and into lower tiers, Chinese university quality becomes far more variable than in the West. So, unless the student is from a top school (e.g. Tsinghua, PKU, Jiao Tong, etc.) the PhD is likely to be more equivalent to an MPhil in the West. This is still nothing to sneeze at, but gives a bit more perspective.

The other caveat about Chinese PhDs is that the level of research autonomy and mentorship is far lower than in the West. In the US, an advisor would typically be mentoring about half as many students. Research topics in China are assigned to the student and directed by the advisor, whereas US PhD students frame and own their research questions. Outside the top Chinese institutions, quantity of work is prized over quality.

So, it is interesting, and the West should heed the juggernaut that China has built. But the West still maintains some educational and research advantages.

That's a very informed comment, thank you. I've visited China several times, and on one of the visits to Fudan University, around 2010, the newly-installed head of the physics department said their aim was to be in the Top 10 Physics Departments in the World (there is more than one league table, so there is an element of flexibility there!). We asked him how long would it take to be in the Top 10, and he responded without hesitation (in perfect English) "at least 25 years". That's both realism, and long-term thinking for you: they had a strategy, and funding, for improvement.

The ARWU Ranking (the most appropriate for research) currently ranks Fudan 41 in the world overall, and 51-75 in Physics, so they still have a way to go. But he did say at least 25 years and we are only 15 years from my 2010 visit!

It's true that below the top tier of Chinese universities the quality is variable, but it's also important to understand the strong desire for self-improvement. Many of them have ambitious long term plans.

I agree that the West still has the edge overall in most aspects of university science and engineering, but the way things are going, I think the scales will tip to China (and Asia generally) in the next 20-30 years, unless the current trends change quite dramatically.

 

[vantelimus]

That's a very informed comment, thank you. I've visited China several times, and on one of the visits to Fudan University, around 2010, the newly-installed head of the physics department said their aim was to be in the Top 10 Physics Departments in the World (there is more than one league table, so there is an element of flexibility there!). We asked him how long would it take to be in the Top 10, and he responded without hesitation (in perfect English) "at least 25 years". That's both realism, and long-term thinking for you: they had a strategy, and funding, for improvement.

The ARWU Ranking (the most appropriate for research) currently ranks Fudan 41 in the world overall, and 51-75 in Physics, so they still have a way to go. But he did say at least 25 years and we are only 15 years from my 2010 visit!

It's true that below the top tier of Chinese universities the quality is variable, but it's also important to understand the strong desire for self-improvement. Many of them have ambitious long term plans.

I agree that the West still has the edge overall in most aspects of university science and engineering, but the way things are going, I think the scales will tip to China (and Asia generally) in the next 20-30 years, unless the current trends change quite dramatically.

You have to be careful with ARWU rankings, especially in individual subjects. The ARWU favors large, publication-intensive universities. This can cause skews in the scoring as more students means more papers, even when publication per-student, per-paper impact, and student education quality are lower. This is a game that China can win by sheer numbers. A school like Tsinghua, which has a massive student population (over 23,000 doctoral students across all disciplines), will naturally skew higher in the rankings.

I don't know about physics, but currently Tsinghua ranks #2 in Computer Science according to the ARWU. That puts it above all others except MIT. I suspect the fact that it admits ~250 students into their CS PhD program per year and likely has well over 1,000 CS PhD students at any given time has an effect since publication scores aren't normalized by the number of students. By contrast, Stanford had ~300 total CS PhD students in 2020, Harvard 150 in 2024, and CMU 74 last year.

China will surpass the West–and probably has, I'm just not ready to admit it–because they have the will to advance whereas we in the US are making massive cuts to basic research.

 

[ChrisMac47]

You have to be careful with ARWU rankings, especially in individual subjects. The ARWU favors large, publication-intensive universities. This can cause skews in the scoring as more students means more papers, even when publication per-student, per-paper impact, and student education quality are lower. This is a game that China can win by sheer numbers. A school like Tsinghua, which has a massive student population (over 23,000 doctoral students across all disciplines), will naturally skew higher in the rankings.

I don't know about physics, but currently Tsinghua ranks #2 in Computer Science according to the ARWU. That puts it above all others except MIT. I suspect the fact that it admits ~250 students into their CS PhD program per year and likely has well over 1,000 CS PhD students at any given time has an effect since publication scores aren't normalized by the number of students. By contrast, Stanford had ~300 total CS PhD students in 2020, Harvard 150 in 2024, and CMU 74 last year.

China will surpass the West–and probably has, I'm just not ready to admit it–because they have the will to advance whereas we in the US are making massive cuts to basic research.

Agreed. Rankings are controversial and can be misleading. But there is a definite trend here. I do hope US universities weather the current storm, they are the powerhouse driving American innovation.

 

[chmania]

Agreed. Rankings are controversial and can be misleading. But there is a definite trend here. I do hope US universities weather the current storm, they are the powerhouse driving American innovation.

They can't. There are so many universities in soooo many countries!

 

[OGdrknight]

My company won’t even let me plug-in a USB drive but Apple does!? And Apple wonders how **** leaks out…

I’m reminded of this quote from Bill Gates: "Well, Steve, I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it".

 

[Mac Overdose]

Who would he hire with enough technical knowledge? These people are not simply hired; they are headhunted and come in with their own conditions. Without the Asians—Chinese, Indians, etc.—who do you have?

You have me, and plenty of other American engineers that have the experience needed, but these Commies work for less money, because their government funds them up with the expectation that they will bring the technology home.

 

[ChrisMac47]

You have me, and plenty of other American engineers that have the experience needed, but these Commies work for less money, because their government funds them up with the expectation that they will bring the technology home.

That's a dreadful remark, you should be ashamed. This is an International forum, not everyone is from the US, and the least you can do is to show some respect to others.

 

[chmania]

You have me, and plenty of other American engineers that have the experience needed, but these Commies work for less money, because their government funds them up with the expectation that they will bring the technology home.

Then, to save the US, you'd have to work for less money, period!
You can't have the cake and eat it too!
The trouble is that you people are fed with that old Commie stuff -- a problem of living in an isolated country. That kind of Commies (1950s-1980s) are not found anywhere in the world, not even in North Korea.

 

[Hooyah]

That's a dreadful remark, you should be ashamed. This is an International forum, not everyone is from the US, and the least you can do is to show some respect to others.

How was he disrespectful? The word 'commies' is short for communists. The CCP is very much communist. Not be political, but stating a fact. The original post seems valid to me, he's an engineer and at large, the body of work from that category of worker in the US (and Europe where I am) spend lifetimes perfecting things and inventing things only to have certain nations which have no real IP concern take it, sell it cheaper and sometimes ultimately put the US / EU businesses out of business altogether :-( Pretty unfair.