Apple Says Third-Party Apps Can Take Full Advantage of ProMotion With Plist Entry, Core Animation Bug Fix Coming [Updated]

[macOS Lynx]

I respectfully disagree this one time, as others have stated, maybe apple was tired of new features being leaked, so they simply just withheld the info this time? Doesn’t have to be a massive conspiracy.

Every tool im referencing was made available to developers after the phones were announced but before orders were delivering. There’s nothing to leak because Apple’s already announced them.

Also “conspiracy”? All I said was I’m disappointed Apple didn’t provide these tools beforehand like they usually do. No idea what “conspiracy” that relates to? Unless being critical of a company I love makes me a “conspiracist” or something?

 

[chucker23n1]

Every tool im referencing was made available to developers after the phones were announced but before orders were delivering.

Nope. The WWDC before the iPhone 6 came out, size classes were introduced. Why? It wasn’t explained at the time, but it was pretty clear why: because Apple was about to change the phone size.

So this led to a lot of speculation that Apple didn’t want. So they avoid doing that.

Also “conspiracy”? All I said was I’m disappointed Apple didn’t provide these tools beforehand like they usually do.

They don’t usually do that. There’s lots of examples where a hardware announcement is the first time developers hear the news.

Which leaves us with a window of about two weeks where they could’ve clarified this. Which, oh well.

 

[hot-gril]

They probably made this a plist opt-in because they knew stuff would break from the new refresh rate if not checked. But it's not cool that they gave their own apps that capability first. The article title also suggests 3rd party apps can already use it, but even the plist option is upcoming.

Gotta love iOS development. You use very specific APIs, but your stuff still breaks from new hardware and new iOS versions. Make an app that's just a button that plays a fart sound when pressed, and it'll constantly need changes and rebuilds to keep working.

Edit: Nvm, didn't read enough:

As developers have discovered, standard UI animations within third-party apps work with ProMotion display technology automatically, and that's true for all apps.

That's fine IMO.

 

[hot-gril]

It allows these crazy people to finally be happy. For some reason if the phone doesnt do 120hz all the time its not good enough.

Is it wasteful of battery life? Yes
Is it impossible to detect without slow motion capture device? Yes
Is it all about them bragging rights? Yes.

People can tell the difference between 60 and 120. Otherwise, why does the new iPhone have a 120Hz display at all?

 

[GuruZac]

Thermal issues with the new phones? No, not really. I am sure it is throttling down the frame rate at times but honestly my eyes see no difference between 60fps and 120fps so if it’s doing that it isn’t bothering me. And the phone is not getting any hotter than my old one when I play games or screw around with the “about” box in pCalc (which is a nice playground for 120fps)

Thanks. For what it’s worth, I’m not buying the 13 Pro for ProMotion. I’m buying because of the cameras and new form factor (coming from my 11 Pro). I’m also assuming that whatever issue there may or may not be will be addressed through software and this is not a hardware issue.

 

[cmaier]

Nope. The WWDC before the iPhone 6 came out, size classes were introduced. Why? It wasn’t explained at the time, but it was pretty clear why: because Apple was about to change the phone size.

So this led to a lot of speculation that Apple didn’t want. So they avoid doing that.


They don’t usually do that. There’s lots of examples where a hardware announcement is the first time developers hear the news.

Which leaves us with a window of about two weeks where they could’ve clarified this. Which, oh well.

We have “it would have been nice if apple explained this a week or so earlier, but it just means that support will arrive in 3rd party apps a few days later than otherwise“ vs. ”this is a complete and utter failure that means the end of apple.”

I wonder what we can infer about the posters in each camp.

 

[chucker23n1]

We have “it would have been nice if apple explained this a week or so earlier, but it just means that support will arrive in 3rd party apps a few days later than otherwise“ vs. ”this is a complete and utter failure that means the end of apple.”

I wonder what we can infer about the posters in each camp.

One camp has actual experience in software engineering, and the other likes to complain?

 

[cmaier]

One camp has actual experience about software engineering, and the other likes to complain?

Hmm... that’s one possibility.

 

[chucker23n1]

People can tell the difference between 60 and 120. Otherwise, why does the new iPhone have a 120Hz display at all?

The whole point of the dynamic switching is that it throttles the refresh rate if it thinks people won't tell the difference, because there won't be additional frames to render.

E.g., if you're scrolling, it will go up to 90 or 120 Hz, depending on how quickly you scroll, because those frames are definitely coming. But if you're watching a 24fps movie, going 60 Hz much less 120 Hz would be utterly pointless.

 

[tyranne201]

bad timing. they should had made it clear long ago. the phone is already available. this feature needed to be ready on launch date.

 

[hot-gril]

The whole point of the dynamic switching is that it throttles the refresh rate if it thinks people won't tell the difference, because there won't be additional frames to render.

E.g., if you're scrolling, it will go up to 90 or 120 Hz, depending on how quickly you scroll, because those frames are definitely coming. But if you're watching a 24fps movie, going 60 Hz much less 120 Hz would be utterly pointless.

Yeah, but I imagine most apps use scrolling or other standard animations. If Apple's idea is to save battery, an app-wide plist entry is too coarse.

 

[chucker23n1]

Yeah, but I imagine most apps use scrolling or other standard animations. If Apple's idea is to save battery, an app-wide plist entry is too coarse.

The plist entry only applies to views that don't use standard controls. A scroll view will scroll at high frame rate regardless. This entire discussion is only for when you're doing custom animations.

 

[cmaier]

bad timing. they should had made it clear long ago. the phone is already available. this feature needed to be ready on launch date.

The feature is ready.

Third party apps that support it are already in the App Store.

What’s the problem, exactly?

 

[UnusedLoginID]

The feature is ready.

Third party apps that support it are already in the App Store.

What’s the problem, exactly?

Exactly, what’s the problem?
I’ve been re-reading the MR article and I can’t figure it out. I’m at the point where I think MR doesn’t even understand the issue and can’t explain it clearly.
What are “custom animations”, why would a developer use these, and most importantly please tell us which developers use them and give us a real-life example of an app that will not work with the new ProMotion unless they add the plist entry.

 

[macOS Lynx]

Nope. The WWDC before the iPhone 6 came out, size classes were introduced. Why? It wasn’t explained at the time, but it was pretty clear why: because Apple was about to change the phone size.

So this led to a lot of speculation that Apple didn’t want. So they avoid doing that.


They don’t usually do that. There’s lots of examples where a hardware announcement is the first time developers hear the news.

Which leaves us with a window of about two weeks where they could’ve clarified this. Which, oh well.

Which hardware features other than ProMotion were developers not given the tools for before the product was in consumer hands? The only situations I can think of are features added AFTER a product is on the market (like Announce Messages with Siri or spatial head tracking after the Pros came out).

I never said developers hear about new products before the public (though Apple does give some developers early access), I said the tools to update their apps are available AFTER announcement and BEFORE they go on sale.

I don’t understand the insinuation how telling developers “hey make this .plist change” the day the iPhone 13 Pro was announced, instead of making it available almost a day after launch. Nothing is leaked by doing this. I fail to see the conspiracy argument as well (unless the conspiracy is not believing that Apple is 100% flawless, which I will never think of any company ever).

 

[VictorTango777]

It isn’t. Apple could’ve communicated it a little better, but there’s not much of a story here.

Is this the first instance of less than ideal communication on Apple's part? If not, why does it continue to happen at Apple?

No. Why would they do that?

The implication is that Apple always provides developers full access to every technology that they create. Are there any examples of Apple limiting developer access to certain Apple technologies, hardware components, API's, etc? I suspect that if there were, the same people who denied it would still try to justify it.

 

[cmaier]

Is this the first instance of less than ideal communication on Apple's part? If not, why does it continue to happen at Apple?

Why does the communication have to be “ideal?” What were the negative repercussions in this case? Again, there are tons of apps in the App Store, right now, that work just fine at 120fps. There are more being released every day. There were a ton in the App Store before the iphone 13 was in anyone’s hands, in fact.

The universe of apps that are affected by this are those apps that (1) roll their own UI controls, and (2) need 2 weeks to add a line to the app’s plist file.

 

[VictorTango777]

Here are a set of questions I have been asking of people in another thread, so that we can have a clear set of metrics to judge people’s claims and the success of the product. I am gather the answers and will post them in a new thread.

The goal is to get everyone on the record so there will be no moving of the goal posts.

1. What set of benchmarks will you consider as the basis for comparison between the released Apple Silicon Mac systems and competitive Intel/AMD machines?
2. When doing our comparisons between Apple Silicon-based hardware and AMD/Intel based hardware, how will you pick the AMD/Intel chip to compare? What objective metric would you use to define equivalent systems for comparison? Machines at the same price point? Machines with the same max TDP? Something else? The point of this question is that since Apple will not be selling its SoCs to others, one cannot do it purely on price of the chip, one needs some other objective metric to decide what two items should be compared.
3. What objective criteria would Apple Silicon have to meet to be a successful product vs. Intel/AMD’s chips? (10% faster? 25%? 10% better battery life? 25%? Something else?) Once Apple starts to deliver high-end GPUs, what are your answers on those same metrics for those?
4. When did you purchase your most recent Mac from Apple or a third party reseller that was currently shipping at the time you purchased it?
5. What would be required for you to purchase an Apple Silicon-based system?

Again, feel free to add a time frame for each metric, if you are this confident.

I have seen contradictory statements on these forums about reporting issues with Apple products. There are even contradictory statements from the same poster. Should developers and users report issues to Apple or not? Is anyone willing to go on record with answers to the following questions in case the goal posts move again?

1. Are https://www.apple.com/feedback and https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting real websites owned by Apple?

2. If these are real Apple websites, does Apple really intend to review content that is submitted to these sites, or are these sites just a black hole that goes nowhere but is designed to create the illusion that Apple is listening to people's concerns?

3. If you believe that Apple always addresses issues without having to be told about them, then what is the purpose of having those feedback and bug reporting sites?

4. If an issue is discovered with an Apple product, how long should people wait before reporting it? 2 days? A week? A month? A year? 3 years? How long?

5. If after waiting for the prescribed time while saying nothing, and Apple has still not addressed the issue, is it ok to report it? Or will you still criticize someone for reporting it and making it public?

 

[kyjaotkb]

I knew it was a bug.

Like I said. When Apple comes up with a name for a technology, "Retina", "TouchID", "TrueTone", "ProMotion", it means it works the same way on all devices. It wouldn't make sense for "ProMotion" to work differently on the iPad Pro than on the iPhone.

‘Magsafe’
´iSight’

 

[cmaier]

I knew it was a bug.

Like I said. When Apple comes up with a name for a technology, "Retina", "TouchID", "TrueTone", "ProMotion", it means it works the same way on all devices. It wouldn't make sense for "ProMotion" to work differently on the iPad Pro than on the iPhone.

And yet retina is different across different devices. Touchid is different across different devices. True Tone is different across different devices. ”Space Gray” has meant a dozen different colors. “MagSafe” means three completely different things. iSight means different things. iBook was hardware and then software. Rosetta was handwriting recognition, and now it’s opcode translation. quicktake was a camera. Apple one was a computer, and now it’s a service bundle.

Apple has no history of being consistent with names.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

How are TouchID and TrueTone different?

 

[31 Flavas]

So, you mean… this wasn’t some nefarious scheme by ol’ Prayer Hands Tim, cackling in the wind as users were relegated to the unmitigated and “literally unusable” hellscape of sub-120Hz refresh rates? Because the comments earlier SWORE…

Oh and how anyone *not* attacking Apple is a brainless sheep, Apple zealot defender, or shill? Probably all three.

 

[cmaier]

How are TouchID and TrueTone different?

True tone produces different colors on different products under identical lighting conditions, as people on here have posted numerous times.

Touch ID is sometimes found as a keyboard button, sometimes as a power button, and sometimes as a home button, and in each case there are different implications for what they can be used for (see, e.g., the external magic keyboard Touch ID) and exactly how the underlying technology works (compare power-button Touch ID to home button Touch ID).

But even if you think those differences are not enough, your statement that a name always means the same thing to apple is disproven by the 8 other things I listed. And of course there are more things I could list.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Meh. You sure seem committed to proving me wrong, so I’ll be willing to let you “win” if your ego needs it that much.

For now, I will continue to disagree with you and explain why. For one, MagSafe was discontinued and brought back as something else, so that’s different. The slightly different tones in TrueTone or the slightly different PPI in retina doesn’t count either. TrueTone and retina aren’t more limited in one device compared with another. That’s the point I was making with ProMotion.

 

[cmaier]

Meh. You sure seem committed to proving me wrong, so I’ll be willing to let you “win” if your ego needs it that much.

For now, I will continue to disagree with you and explain why. For one, MagSafe was discontinued and brought back as something else, so that’s different. The slightly different tones in TrueTone or the slightly different PPI in retina doesn’t count either. TrueTone and retina aren’t more limited in one device compared with another. That’s the point I was making with ProMotion.

lol. Different ppi in retina doesn’t count as being “different” even though the entire thing that defines retina - the only thing “retina” refers to - is ppi.

sure.

But slight differences in frame rates between one version of ProMotion and another - that counts as a major difference.

Yep, got it.