Apple Says Vision Pro Could Be Used for Surgeries, Technical Training and More

[citysnaps]

I’m always amazed at how many 'experts' there are here. Anyone here who is a surgeon, please raise your hand.

Spot on. Almost everyone here (with the exception of a handful of curious people with healthy imaginations) don't know anything about AR, its history, uses, the problems that can be solved, available commercial systems, etc. And don't appear to be curious enough to do even a little bit of self-education or research.

As opposed to Apple systems/hardware engineers who no doubt have gone deep understanding the above and also collaborating with Stanford University's AR/VR laboratory for the last 7-8 years.

Seems many here, despite Apple's deep involvement, come to the same conclusion everyday that Apple managers and engineers are idiots, uneducated, and are blowing it big time, because they just don't get it.

And that AVP is sure to flop like the other predicted flops; iPod, iPhone, iPad, Watch, AirPods, etc.

 

[jakemike]

A product that doesn't yet have a known market. Not good.

If Musk could sell 20,000 flamethrowers a few years ago ...

 

[victorvictoria]

The VisionPro is not the answer to stagnant growth at Apple. Innovation is the answer. But not hardware innovation. Apple's future has to include a laser-like focus on growth in services, improved interactions HomeKit/Siri in all smart devices including automobiles, and AI integration at the user interface level. Tim, your time has come. Hand me the keys!

 

[citysnaps]

Apple puts itself at risk when it makes statements about using their devices for medical purposes. A company can sidestep the FDA when it makes a reasonable claim that their product is for entertainment purposes or just "maintaining or encouraging a healthy lifestyle". Beyond that it is up to the doctor and/or hospital if they will allow it to be used with patients (though hospitals usually say no to non-FDA approved things unless it is part of a formal clinical trial).

Marketing something for use in the OR puts it well into medical device territory. That requires FDA approval and that usually requires formal clinical trials unless it's a copy of an already approved medical device. Putting aside the software issues that would likely get scrutiny these days, I'd be curious if the device in its current iteration is conducive to the frequent sterile-level cleaning that would be required of a device being used in the OR.

As a remote vision device (i.e. used by a surgeon physically outside the OR) -- perhaps in combination with a robotic surgery system -- the sterilization issue is avoided but then the platform as a whole (OR-based camera, Vision Pro, surgery robot, integration software) would require approval.

"Marketing something for use in the OR puts it well into medical device territory."

Has Apple actually been marketing AVP for surgical/hospital use? I don't believe so. Especially as there are no apps. I read the above as mere speculation of possible/potential future uses, should developers and Apple choose to go in that direction. Which of course would also mean appropriate government approvals would be required.

It's my understanding Apple attorneys are top-notch and well-compensated, and would no doubt analyze the risks and necessary requirements, and advise accordingly.

 

[eicca]

Here’s the thing…. Apple are renown for bringing products that change the way we do things. The technology is rarely new, but it is put together in a way that create more than a sum of its parts.

No, Apple USED to be renowned for bringing products that solved functionality problems, often problems that we weren’t aware existed, which is why they were so brilliant.

Vision Pro doesn’t really solve any problems. It just does “cool” things.

 

[ThaGoochiestMane]

And now Apple Vision Pro will do it at a higher quality with better software and better developer tools.

Essentially everybody working on HoloLens left for Apple or Meta after Alex Kipman was fired.

I wouldn't expect the software experience to be that much different considering its primarily the same people building it. It's almost like a HoloLens 3.0 in terms of these people's ideas.

 

[citysnaps]

No, Apple USED to be renowned for bringing products that solved functionality problems, often problems that we weren’t aware existed, which is why they were so brilliant.

Vision Pro doesn’t really solve any problems. It just does “cool” things.

AR is not about doing cool things. It's about solving problems.

 

[Plutonius]

I suppose that the surgeon could also ask Siri for advice .

 

[Karma*Police]

Literally a solution in search for problems. I’m being facetious, but it really sounds like they just hope there will be at least one wall where it’ll stick, instead of having a focused product vision (puns intended).

Agree, there’s nothing new here. Everyone in tech has been talking about those VR solutions for a decade or more. Microsoft said the same thing about HoloLens and Google shifted its focus to enterprise applications for Google glass.

 

[seek3r]

I suppose that the surgeon could also ask Siri for advice .

“Siri, how do I fix this heart?”
“Now playing Shot Through the Heart by Bon Jovi”

 

[LV426]

This guy looks more comfortable.

 

[hugodrax]

and include remote troubleshooting as a use case (expert at another site where the issue is).
Problem is that (almost) none of these enterprises use Apple products, so getting your sourcing department to spend money will be challenging ...

Kind of like the Blackberry days when people said enterprise would never use iphones and people,would never give up those crackberry phones.

 

[falainber]

Apple has been saying that iPad was great for productivity for a long time but iPad still sucks at it.

 

[macduke]

I think Apple finally found the largest market segment that can afford their device.

It could be pretty useful for AR applications and overlaying information. I'm not sure if I would trust it to do a surgery over the ZOOM equivalent of surgery. I know those happen but imagine it glitches while their hands are floating which makes the surgery robot go flying or someone's head appears right in the middle of the body cavity and spooks them.

 

[MagicHAM]

I will watch . I won’t mock or make judgements until I get one 40 years from now😛

 

[smulji]

Essentially everybody working on HoloLens left for Apple or Meta after Alex Kipman was fired.

How do you know?

 

[smulji]

I suppose that the surgeon could also ask Siri for advice .

Better not be one that operates on me.

 

[WilliamG]

Hey Siri, tell me the steps to remove appendix。

As long as the surgery doesn't take more than about 2 hours, of course. Or, you know, if your fellow doctors and nurses don't mind you having the thing plugged in while you work.

 

[eicca]

AR is not about doing cool things. It's about solving problems.

Like what? What problems in the current computing world does it solve? What hurdles is Vision Pro overcoming that are holding us all back?

Multiple big displays is not an answer because I can get projectors for $50 apiece that solve that problem nearly as well for orders of magnitude less money.

 

[SoldOnApple]

If apple creates an app for adult movies this product will be a hit!

With the headset identifying specific users when you put it on, they maybe could actually restrict it to 18+ year olds.

 

[iPadified]

I had similar thoughts. The exact same things were said about the Microsoft Hololens. People have been saying ”AR could be used for surgery” for about twenty years.

Who’s going to write the app for surgeons? Who’s gonna pay the $1000 per user per year (minimum) it’s gonna cost?

The more I think about this the more I’m thinking Apple is going to have to fairly heavily subsidize development of this device to get it off the ground. It’s the hardest chicken and egg problem they’ve had to crack since the original desktop computers.

$1000 per year per surgeon is peanut money for cost of high end surgery so do not worry about that. 3D alignment between the surgical instrument and the digital copy of the world that you see is the real show stopper. To be better, the digital world needs to be better than what the surgeon sees natively. Robotic surgery or rather surgeons operating robots is a huge advantage but I can't see how the Vision Pro locking the surgeon out from others in the theatre would be much better than current setup.

For training procedure, great, but for real life, much more difficult.

 

[svish]

Wonder what all will be possible because of AR/VR in the future!

 

[wanha]

and include remote troubleshooting as a use case (expert at another site where the issue is).
Problem is that (almost) none of these enterprises use Apple products, so getting your sourcing department to spend money will be challenging ...

The number 1 reason to entice companies to spend money is the prospect of making more money.
The number 2 reason is the prospect of saving money (and thus making more profit).

Enterprises that don't use Apple products may soon have a very compelling reason to do so.

 

[multiformeingegno]

They seem desperate. I’m sure the legal team was not happy with this statement. A couple years from now there will probably be a lawsuit from someone using the Vision Pro for a surgery and suddenly seeing an “iCloud storage full” popup while operating. Consumer devices are not medical equipment…

 

[wanha]

$1000 per year per surgeon is peanut money for cost of high end surgery so do not worry about that. 3D alignment between the surgical instrument and the digital copy of the world that you see is the real show stopper. To be better, the digital world needs to be better than what the surgeon sees natively. Robotic surgery or rather surgeons operating robots is a huge advantage but I can't see how the Vision Pro locking the surgeon out from others in the theatre would be much better than current setup.

For training procedure, great, but for real life, much more difficult.

I have a friend who works together with surgeons in the operating room to put in artificial knee, ankle and hip joints, because he has got more expertise on the artificial joint and how to install it than most surgeons do.

To be able to do this remotely or even without the need of an expert like my friend would be massive for the industry.