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Honestly, the only non-permitted app that I would like to have available is full-fat Gecko Firefox with extensions support.

I'm over apps now since they're not usually better than a website
 
Well that comment makes no sense just buy an android device when iOS is more or less becoming android anyway in terms of how the operating system works anyway
It’s not iOS 6 anymore
I think you're saying what I'm saying? Stop trying to make iOS like Android where you can install third party stores.
 
since you ask, I have a 1990 Ford Taurus and a 2023 Volvo XC60.The feature set, performance, and quality gap is the same as that between your pixel and your iPhone.
no one brought up about the quality gap between pixel and iPhone except you so your point about that isn't really related to the discussion.

I prefer the pixel over all of the other android devices. if you prefer a Samsung, that's great, then you should go buy that android device.
 
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And maybe have a taste of why people generally don’t want to switch ecosystem in a whim, and how horrifyingly effective Apple has done to lock users down as hard as they can.
It's effective because it works! When the same company makes the OS, the hardware and either makes or tests the apps, the integration is something that Windows/Android can't even approach. With the Wild West of vendors and app makers, with no regulation, you don't even know who to call when something doesn't work!
 
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no one brought up about the quality gap between pixel and iPhone except you so your point about that isn't really related to the discussion.

I prefer the pixel over all of the other android devices. if you prefer a Samsung, that's great, then you should go buy that android device.
I had an Android phone for about 6 months. It was the most excruciating tech experience I've had the displeasure of trying to unwind. I'm Apple and nothing but since 2004. As for Android, to quote the great philosopher Taylor Swift, "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together.
You go talk to your friends, talk to my friends, talk to me
But we are never, ever, ever, ever getting back together
Like, ever."

Feel me?
 
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Apple's locked down ecosystem never changed. It's the same as it was. They can't be held responsible for the actions taken by Google to lock down their ecosystem.

Also, let's be clear why Android is "locking down" (which it actually isn't doing - just requiring that developers register if they want their apps to run on premium Android devices). It's because of all the scams and malware (that I am repeatedly told is FUD when I point out as an obvious negative consequence of forcing Apple open).

Google says 50x more viruses and malware come from third-party app stores and side loaded apps than from the Play Store. But that’s the model regulators and the vocal minority of MacRumors posters want to bring to iOS.

The fact of the matter is the current model is better for users and fair to developers. And Apple has done nothing but loosened restrictions and lowered prices since the App Store was launched. Zero need to have government come in and declare they know better than the free market.
 
This case was so clearly, so obviously done by people/ idiots wanting to find some loophole to get money
 
Also, let's be clear why Android is "locking down" (which it actually isn't doing - just requiring that developers register if they want their apps to run on premium Android devices). It's because of all the scams and malware (that I am repeatedly told is FUD when I point out as an obvious negative consequence of forcing Apple open).

Apple could implement a system similar to the Mac's sandboxing only a bit more aggressive and give users more control over what data an app a get, from none to all by data type; and the allow sideloading.

They then can make the argument they are more open and the user gets to decide what to share.

I do see 2 issues:
  • Some users will simply blindly "allow" but that is on them
  • legitimate developers who want to add features not supported by the App Store would face a quandary - sell on the App Store only and not add features but have access to a large user base; forgo access to large user base and add features; or have 2 versions and confuse users
I like the system the way it is and in the "If you don't like it use something else" camp; but change is inevitable.

I do think smaller developers will be collateral damage as the rules evolve and Apple changes how teh App Store is managed and priced.

This case was so clearly, so obviously done by people/ idiots wanting to find some loophole to get money

You could say/people/idiots/lawyers but that would be redundant...
 
Apple could implement a system similar to the Mac's sandboxing only a bit more aggressive and give users more control over what data an app a get, from none to all by data type; and the allow sideloading.
At the expense of CPU power and Battery life. And at the expense of the user experience. There are no free lunches.
They then can make the argument they are more open and the user gets to decide what to share.
Being more "open" is not what Apple wants and they created the device. It would be like you building a car for the track, and the purchaser wanting it to have more snow driving ability and you will not let them. For the few times they need to drive in the snow. They say " you can just put on some snow tires and be good right?" And you say "no, the amount of power being delivered isn't variable to snow conditions, you would just end up spinning the tires.". Then they say "make it more variable so I could add snow tires." And you say "that would slow the car down on the track and require more parts to make that work.". They say "so add them and keep it fast!". And you say "It is as fast as it can get right now, and anything else I add will slow it down and totally change the design I spent the last few years engineering.". And the other guy is like "Ok, so when can you get it done?".
I do see 2 issues:
  • Some users will simply blindly "allow" but that is on them
It's on them from the time they purchased the device. Apple has catered to the crowd of people that really don't know what they are doing. Making the device more approachable and easy to use. While still having the power for the pros. It is as easy for a child to use as it is for an older person. People that know more and are better at managing a device/computer. Will want more control over it. This wasn't created for them.
  • legitimate developers who want to add features not supported by the App Store would face a quandary - sell on the App Store only and not add features but have access to a large user base; forgo access to large user base and add features; or have 2 versions and confuse users
Hence the simple rules we have in place from the start. It's not perfect and it never will be for everyone. Some will want more than it can do, while others will want the safety it provides. Along with the reliability and ease of use. Apple chooses to go with the latter. Apple can't please everyone. So they cater to what they do best.
I like the system the way it is and in the "If you don't like it use something else" camp; but change is inevitable.
Generally the consumer(s) will make the change with their wallets. They find a better solution for themselves and if that choice is an Android based device or if some other company creates a new device. That's how it's supposed to be. Apple tries to go where the people will be. They don't always get it right. But, right enough to be where they are today.
I do think smaller developers will be collateral damage as the rules evolve and Apple changes how the App Store is managed and priced.
Something I believe Apple is trying to avoid. 70/30 split still seems pretty reasonable for what you get out of it. If it was cheaper, sure it's better for the developer. But, i'm not a developer. I'm the end user in this case. And I prefer it to be safer and easier to use. If that comes at a higher price for me. I can make that decision to stay with it or not.
 
You can install third party app stores.

The whole new developer verification is no different than Apple's notarization where Apple doesn't restrict epic/valve/EA/etc...from installing third party stores on the Mac unless the store is doing malicious things. Even steam distributed malware but Apple hasn't pulled Steam from Mac.

So what you're saying isn't really holding water.
Hmm, the open source "app store" F-Droid seems to be disagreeing.

 
Hmm, the open source "app store" F-Droid seems to be disagreeing.


Did you even read your own links? They're discussing the meaning behind what "sideloading" means. F-droid complains it's no longer considered "side loading" (or "direct" install vs just install) anymore because side loading means "not vendor approved" which is a different discussion, but it is still able to "install" third party app stores.

Fact is, you'll still be able to install f-droid which is what I said: "You can install third party app stores.". Switching to Android will still make a difference because you'll still be able to install third party app stores.

Just what exactly did I say is incorrect?
 
Hmm, the open source "app store" F-Droid seems to be disagreeing.

Sure, sideloading is going away if you narrowly define sideloading in such a way that it doesn't actually mean what everyone assumes it means.

F-Droid quotes Wikipedia’s “apps from web sources that are not vendor-approved” and then pretend “identity verified by Google” = “vendor approved.” That’s not what Google said. Google’s own post says the check is about who the developer is, not about what you install or where you got it. You can still host the APK on your own site, in F-Droid, in Samsung’s store, wherever the device will just want the APK’s signer to be a known developer. From Google's own announcement (emphasis mine): "we will be confirming who the developer is, not reviewing the content of their app or where it came from."

Also, this is only for Play-certified Android. If you really want a phone where Google can’t run the check, those exist. So no, sideloading is not “going away on Android.” What’s going away is “I can ship a shady APK from throwaway@gmail and keep respawning forever." Because that's a big security risk, as much as F-Droid or "force Apple open" zealots pretend it's not.
 
Did you even read your own links? They're discussing the meaning behind what "sideloading" means. F-droid complains it's no longer considered "side loading" (or "direct" install vs just install) anymore because side loading means "not vendor approved" which is a different discussion, but it is still able to "install" third party app stores.

Fact is, you'll still be able to install f-droid which is what I said: "You can install third party app stores.". Switching to Android will still make a difference because you'll still be able to install third party app stores.

Just what exactly did I say is incorrect?
The F-Droid project cannot require that developers register their apps through Google, but at the same time, we cannot “take over” the application identifiers for the open-source apps we distribute, as that would effectively seize exclusive distribution rights to those applications.

If it were to be put into effect, the developer registration decree will end the F-Droid project and other free/open-source app distribution sources as we know them today, and the world will be deprived of the safety and security of the catalog of thousands of apps that can be trusted and verified by any and all. F-Droid’s myriad users will be left adrift, with no means to install — or even update their existing installed — applications. (How many F-Droid users are there, exactly? We don’t know, because we don’t track users or have any registration: “No user accounts, by design”)
Their words, not mine, so at least for F-Droid's case they will have to shut down. What's good about being able to install the storefront if the storefront can't install apps?

From Google's own announcement (emphasis mine): "we will be confirming who the developer is, not reviewing the content of their app or where it came from."

about this: here's ArsTechnica's take -
Based on Google’s statements and publicly available policy information, it doesn’t look like developer verification would directly ban things like YouTube ReVanced and other ad-blockers. However, it’s easy to imagine Google changing or reinterpreting the rules at some point to do just that. Google does have a history of lumping its least favorite software in with malware. Recent changes to make Chrome extensions safer also happened to kill some of the most popular and effective ad-blockers. Funny how that works.

But you're right on the last part. If you can get a phone without Play Services installed then the verification would not matter.
 
Their words, not mine, so at least for F-Droid's case they will have to shut down. What's good about being able to install the storefront if the storefront can't install apps?
Your understanding of what was written seems misguided.
Let me highlight the part you skipped over:
If it were to be put into effect, the developer registration decree will end the F-Droid project and other free/open-source app distribution sources as we know them today

As we know them today, F-droid project is control of the identifiers and relies on the community regarding builds/safe checks for open source projects. F-droid will have to give up control of the identifiers, but that doesn't mean F-droid has to shut down. The only reason why they would shut down is out of protest/principle. It's still very much possible F-droid can continue to distribute apps.

TL;DR - New Google changes don't put a fatal blow on F-droid. F-droid can absolutely continue exist, but it's their choice if they want to shutdown out of protest/principle.
 
It doesn't take much digging to find reactions of Android users who say that Google mandating app signing is basically moving towards closing down the system like Apple
 
It doesn't take much digging to find reactions of Android users who say that Google mandating app signing is basically moving towards closing down the system like Apple
Reactions of Android users is meaningless. Fdroid can absolutely continue to allow to distribute apps which is the point of the discussion, something of which you said otherwise.
 
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And maybe have a taste of why people generally don’t want to switch ecosystem in a whim, and how horrifyingly effective Apple has done to lock users down as hard as they can.
1. I have both ecosystems. I know what iOS and Android tastes like. Perhaps you don't.
2. It's like moving houses. It's not Apple's fault you moved into a house you didn't like. Why should Apple be punished because you didn't research the house/location before moving in? Apple didn't lock you in, you invested into the infrastructure of your house.
 
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It's effective because it works! When the same company makes the OS, the hardware and either makes or tests the apps, the integration is something that Windows/Android can't even approach. With the Wild West of vendors and app makers, with no regulation, you don't even know who to call when something doesn't work!

You do the research before moving in like a house. Don't like it? Don't move in. It's not Apple's fault you moved into the wrong house and invested thousands of dollars into it.
 
You do the research before moving in like a house. Don't like it? Don't move in. It's not Apple's fault you moved into the wrong house and invested thousands of dollars into it.
And that's why we're always been an Apple household! And why we lived for 35 years in our last house!
 
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It doesn't take much digging to find reactions of Android users who say that Google mandating app signing is basically moving towards closing down the system like Apple
Maybe one day when the so-called android house is so similar to apple house people don’t feel the need to move to another house. Maybe Google will achieve that while leaving Linux the final sanctuary for enthusiasts. Only time can tell.
 
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