Apple Seeds Fifth OS X 10.11.4 El Capitan Beta to Developers and Public Beta Testers

[Ankou_Sabat]

Have they fixed and re-added RAID support and finished Disk Utility with all features yet in this beta? Until they do I can't even update to El Capitan.

I had no idea how Apple butchered Disk Utilty until looking into it and my goodness this is like some kinda joke! How can they release this to production with no software RAID support! This is simply outrageous! Silently dropping software RAID support! Updating for ease of use is one thing but removing features too at the same time is criminal. I realize this is still in the command line and there are hacks to restore the old Disk Utilty from Time Machine Backup but that's totally an unacceptable work around. If this is supposed to return (and it sure as heck should) and Disk Utilty wasn't finished why are they pushing a half completed update with those features removed on such a crucial piece of system software!

Here are a bunch of features removed and further on the lack of Software RAID support and what your software defined disks will look like:

http://www.macworld.com/article/298...tool-for-storage-devices-gets-a-facelift.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2015/20151008_0956-OSX_ElCapitan-DiskUtility.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2015/20151008_1222-SoftRAID-vs-DiskUtility.html

 

[MrNomNoms]

Have they fixed and re-added RAID support and finished Disk Utility with all features yet in this beta? Until they do I can't even update to El Capitan.

I had no idea how Apple butchered Disk Utilty until looking into it and my goodness this is like some kinda joke! How can they release this to production with no software RAID support! This is simply outrageous! Silently dropping software RAID support! Updating for ease of use is one thing but removing features too at the same time is criminal. I realize this is still in the command line and there are hacks to restore the old Disk Utilty from Time Machine Backup but that's totally an unacceptable work around. If this is supposed to return (and it sure as heck should) and Disk Utilty wasn't finished why are they pushing a half completed update with those features removed on such a crucial piece of system software!

Here are a bunch of features removed and further on the lack of Software RAID support and what your software defined disks will look like:

http://www.macworld.com/article/298...tool-for-storage-devices-gets-a-facelift.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2015/20151008_0956-OSX_ElCapitan-DiskUtility.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2015/20151008_1222-SoftRAID-vs-DiskUtility.html

I'm wondering whether they're going to kill off RAID support and hand the market to a third party given that it is the only explanation at this point as to why nothing has been said by Apple regarding this. This is one of those things that I am chalking up on my 'board of complaints' that is gradually pushing me closer and closer to the decision that maybe the Windows ecosystem is the better avenue for me going forward. Windows has its issues but at least in the Windows world you have enterprise customers who are 'keeping Microsoft honest' and supporting the desktop where as in the Apple world it seems that OS X at this point has become an after thought by Tim Cook - that Apple has just stopped caring about OS X customers because apparently the future is all about iPad's running a crippled operating system. Makes me pissed off that I wasted money purchasing this iMac 5K given how readily Apple has thrown its Mac customers under the bus.

 

[Stu69]

Why is it I only ever run beta software nowadays? :-D

ain't that the truth...!

 

[campyguy]

I'm confused about the griping regarding the removal software RAID support relative to "moving to Windows". MS started pulling the plug on RAID support once they started implementing ReFS support, a few years ago. RAID support in software under Windows - those days are numbered, seeing that in Server 2012R2 already as MS moves from NTFS to ReFS and Storage Spaces as Sinofski blogged about over 4 years ago (https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8...next-generation-file-system-for-windows-refs/). OS X and Win 10 moved to free upgrades, I don't fault them for taking out features that few use on a regular basis - this coming from a user who maintains a copy of Yosemite on an SSD just to RAID 0-in-software some of my hardware. I much prefer hardware RAID. Moving to Windows, just for this will lead to getting cut off there too - it's already been removed as an option in my Server 2012R2 installation... MS is already starting to cut off their support for RAID configuration, Apple just beat them to it in El Capitan. I'm not taking anyone to task here, I just moved on.

My old copy of Yosemite fills that bill, and it took about 5 minutes to get over it...

 

[zunairryk]

I've had that happen at least twice, but over the course of about 3 months.

The last couple times it's happened while I was switching between Chrome and Safari. I've submitted bug reports to Apple, hopefully they'll figure out what the cause is.

For me it happens when i am using Safari. It only started happening since the 10.11.4 beta. So i am assuming its a beta bug.

 

[jb-net]

When will Apple fix Mail.app? Still corrupting my mail database!

 

[Ankou_Sabat]

I'm confused about the griping regarding the removal software RAID support relative to "moving to Windows". MS started pulling the plug on RAID support once they started implementing ReFS support, a few years ago. RAID support in software under Windows - those days are numbered, seeing that in Server 2012R2 already as MS moves from NTFS to ReFS and Storage Spaces as Sinofski blogged about over 4 years ago (https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8...next-generation-file-system-for-windows-refs/). OS X and Win 10 moved to free upgrades, I don't fault them for taking out features that few use on a regular basis - this coming from a user who maintains a copy of Yosemite on an SSD just to RAID 0-in-software some of my hardware. I much prefer hardware RAID. Moving to Windows, just for this will lead to getting cut off there too - it's already been removed as an option in my Server 2012R2 installation... MS is already starting to cut off their support for RAID configuration, Apple just beat them to it in El Capitan. I'm not taking anyone to task here, I just moved on.

My old copy of Yosemite fills that bill, and it took about 5 minutes to get over it...

If RAID support needed to be a paid upgrade from Apple, I'd do it. Its not about feeling "entitled" to Software RAID support. Its that it has been a fundamental and still used component of the operating system and in fact still, luckily, exists in the command line. The problem is that in El Capitan they re-wrote Disk Utility's UI to be more "iTunes" like to, I'm assuming, make it appear easier to the end user. If you look at Disk Utility it appears it is an incomplete project its missing key features mentioned above. The fact that it doesn't at least handle viewing Software RAID volumes and "craps out" is a bug and a serious problem (and yes reported as a bug since release). Its like they got halfway through and just released it as is.

The fact of the matter is that when the disk fails, you will be stuck with this handicapped Disk Utility program in repair mode and you're going to be quite screwed to find out then that there is no proper RAID support. You can't market El Capitan as a seamless upgrade and remove key OS foundational components. Consider that also this also likely affects "Fusion Drives" which they still market as current technology. The RAID and LVM spanning components are all related and missing and mishandled in the UI. I consider Disk Utilities and RAID to be absolutely core components not "features" of an operating system as they have existed in OS X since version 1 and still exist in core operating system not in and not properly handled in the UI.

 

[till213]

Downloading now... will keep you updated about the progress!

 

[emm386]

I like the simple UI.
But I'm hesitant to upgrade.

I still have Snow Leopard on my MBP beacuse it runs like Usain Bolt on steroids (no pun intended) with the stability of El Capitan (the 'real' thing, the rock formation, not the current Apple Operating System - no pun intended).

 

[smaceda]

I like the simple UI.
But I'm hesitant to upgrade.

I still have Snow Leopard on my MBP beacuse it runs like Usain Bolt on steroids (no pun intended) with the stability of El Capitan (the 'real' thing, the rock formation, not the current Apple Operating System - no pun intended).

I am with you 100%!!!! Snow Leopard is the best OS released by Apple. Mission Control sucks and if you have a traditional HDD you can notice the difference... and it's as big as the Colorado Canyon

 

[agentx]

Bell, whistles, spins, pah! idgaf...just Fix you crappy implementation of SMBX. Not everything is cloud and guess what most companies use File servers.
Its the single biggest headache from a sysadmin point of view, our help desk has been full of problems since Samba was dropped.
[doublepost=1456927751][/doublepost]

I like the simple UI.
But I'm hesitant to upgrade.

I still have Snow Leopard on my MBP beacuse it runs like Usain Bolt on steroids (no pun intended) with the stability of El Capitan (the 'real' thing, the rock formation, not the current Apple Operating System - no pun intended).

wow thats great but it does not run modern programs, fine for old hardware. I still run 10.9.5 (Mavericks) where i can, trying to keep to 2-3 year cycle of OS not yearly. Apple have lost it creating more bugs from so called features and leaving Apps half finished with glaring problems.

 

[SubaruWRC]

Does it fix finder? You know, cut/paste shortcut and folders on top? Also green button needs an option to maximize rather than full screen.

Hold down the Option key while clicking the Green button. Notice that it changes to a + sign.

As a note, most useful and interesting options require holding down the Option key, even for things that used to be basic functions, like zooming/maximizing.

 

[azpc]

Does it fix finder? You know, cut/paste shortcut and folders on top? Also green button needs an option to maximize rather than full screen.

Personally I would like:

Green button = Maximize (Largest possible window with the Dock and Menu visible)
Separate Full Screen Button on right side of window
Double click on Title Bar to maximize for content
[doublepost=1456931420][/doublepost]

In general, yes. In terms of third-party Solid State Drive and SSHD support. Yes. But there are still some bugs. The biggest issue for me is that whenever I open a Finder window, I’m usually delayed for about 10 seconds by a spinning beachball.

This helped me:

Delete the file "com.apple.finder.plist"

in /Home/Library/Preferences/

Goto Terminal and input

killall Finder

(this restarts the finder)
[doublepost=1456931621][/doublepost]

Option-click the green button and it will be zoom instead of full screen

My personal preference would be:

Green button = Maximize window to largest possible size with Dock and Menu Bar visible
Separate Full Screen Button
Double click on Title Bar to maximize to content.

I have adapted to the current environment, however, one can still hope.

 

[bladerunner2000]

My personal preference would be:

Green button = Maximize window to largest possible size with Dock and Menu Bar visible
Separate Full Screen Button
Double click on Title Bar to maximize to content.

I have adapted to the current environment, however, one can still hope.

Agreed!!

 

[godrifle]

In general, yes. In terms of third-party Solid State Drive and SSHD support. Yes. But there are still some bugs. The biggest issue for me is that whenever I open a Finder window, I’m usually delayed for about 10 seconds by a spinning beachball.

I've found that disabling finder integration for cloud storage software from vendors like Dropbox, Google Drive and OwnCloud has dramatically improved the rendering of Finder windows.

 

[MrNomNoms]

I'm confused about the griping regarding the removal software RAID support relative to "moving to Windows". MS started pulling the plug on RAID support once they started implementing ReFS support, a few years ago. RAID support in software under Windows - those days are numbered, seeing that in Server 2012R2 already as MS moves from NTFS to ReFS and Storage Spaces as Sinofski blogged about over 4 years ago (https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8...next-generation-file-system-for-windows-refs/). OS X and Win 10 moved to free upgrades, I don't fault them for taking out features that few use on a regular basis - this coming from a user who maintains a copy of Yosemite on an SSD just to RAID 0-in-software some of my hardware. I much prefer hardware RAID. Moving to Windows, just for this will lead to getting cut off there too - it's already been removed as an option in my Server 2012R2 installation... MS is already starting to cut off their support for RAID configuration, Apple just beat them to it in El Capitan. I'm not taking anyone to task here, I just moved on.

My old copy of Yosemite fills that bill, and it took about 5 minutes to get over it...

The issue isn't the lack of RAID but the lack of communication before the decision, the reasons behind the decision and what the long term plan is in terms of OS X and whether Apple is allowing that niche to be catered for by a third party because the long term plan is to completely remove the functionality. The lack of communication results in a void and the void is filled with speculation which ultimately takes on a life of its own which is why Apple should have come out in front of it and addressed the concerns when the rumbling first occurred rather than ignoring it in a hope that it would all go away.

Regarding Windows Storage Spaces ( link ) I don't know about you but that seems to be an upgrade from RAID rather than removing functionality and providing no replacement ( link ) given that it allows you to do everything you could do before.

 

[dogslobber]

ain't that the truth...!

Hammers! Could still win it - 10 points!

 

[jblagden]

I've found that disabling finder integration for cloud storage software from vendors like Dropbox, Google Drive and OwnCloud has dramatically improved the rendering of Finder windows.

Your suggestion pointed me in the right direction. I solved the problem by making Dropbox a startup item. Now I can open a Finder window and click on a folder without being interrupted by a spinning beachball.

Thanks!

 

[campyguy]

The issue isn't the lack of RAID but the lack of communication before the decision, the reasons behind the decision and what the long term plan is in terms of OS X and whether Apple is allowing that niche to be catered for by a third party because the long term plan is to completely remove the functionality.

Ha, good one!!! You've likely not been around nearly as many engineers as I have, all specialties. I was remarking to my business partner just this morning that's why I get brought into projects - to knock heads together, get everyone talking, and get the deliverable out the door. There's one consultant's office I'll always recall - about 70 engineers on the floor, all working, and I could have heard a mechanical pencil hit the carpet - it was like a morgue in there. Engineers, generally speaking, are the most introverted bunch of professionals I've ever worked around - I can't wait until the wet weather season ends and the building starts, so I can get the heck out of the office and bill for it...

FWIW, I wholeheartedly agree with you - an "Oh, by the way, we cut out _____ and you're SOL..." would have been nice, I'll admit. I filed a feature request with Apple via my dev account, then dug out my SSD and got back to work. I saw the function drop in the latest couple of dev beta builds, so I was prepared for it...

 

[MrNomNoms]

Ha, good one!!! You've likely not been around nearly as many engineers as I have, all specialties. I was remarking to my business partner just this morning that's why I get brought into projects - to knock heads together, get everyone talking, and get the deliverable out the door. There's one consultant's office I'll always recall - about 70 engineers on the floor, all working, and I could have heard a mechanical pencil hit the carpet - it was like a morgue in there. Engineers, generally speaking, are the most introverted bunch of professionals I've ever worked around - I can't wait until the wet weather season ends and the building starts, so I can get the heck out of the office and bill for it...

FWIW, I wholeheartedly agree with you - an "Oh, by the way, we cut out _____ and you're SOL..." would have been nice, I'll admit. I filed a feature request with Apple via my dev account, then dug out my SSD and got back to work. I saw the function drop in the latest couple of dev beta builds, so I was prepared for it...

It appears that there is a culture of Microsoft where they at least disclose some sort of roadmap and talk about future developments when things change where as with Apple they put out a new operating system but not attempt to explain why the made a major change or removed a feature that a segment of their user base relied upon. If their aim is to eventually replace RAID with Core Storage then that is all good but they shouldn't remove a feature until the replacement is ready and mature enough to be used especially considering that when they introduced Thunderbolt they made a big thing about thunderbolt RAID boxes to alleviate concerns regarding the Mac Pro's lack of expandability.

My greater concern though is the over all attitude by Apple towards OS X and how they've neglected OS X in terms of stability and features in favour of pandering to the iOS crowd. At this moment I am looking very keenly at what is happening in the Windows 10 world with regular updates, bugs and security holes being fixed, developers concerns are actually being listened to rather than the laundry list of complaints that seem to have been building up as Apple break things as they claim to be moving forward in OS X functionality. Something Apple needs to realise is the sort of crap they could pull a few years ago no longer works; Windows 7 was released, Windows 8.x wasn't as bad as the haters made out and Windows 10 corrects many of the genuine concerns some did have about Windows 8 - waiting for Microsoft to screw up isn't a winning long term strategy. When I'm faced with refreshing my computer setup in the next year or two it appears that Apple is doing their best to drive me into the arms of Microsoft and Android - yes, I'll drop iPhone if I leave the Mac platform and there are many out there for whom OS X and iPhone are a package deal.

 

[cocky jeremy]

My Logitech mouse lags all over the screen after this update. Anyone else having this? MX Performance mouse.

 

[suprjew]

I seem to be having a significant safari memory leak to the tune of ~2gb free when I shut down safari.

 

[seth556]

I've had that happen at least twice, but over the course of about 3 months.

The last couple times it's happened while I was switching between Chrome and Safari. I've submitted bug reports to Apple, hopefully they'll figure out what the cause is.

I've had this happen a few times so far, very frustrating.

Worst yet, I had my MBP in my backpack like normal and found the fans running full blast and it very warm. I think they had been running for a while. I had put it in my bag maybe 4 hours before I realized what was going on and no programs were open when I closed the lid. When I opened the MBP from it's high fan and heat state the screen didn't come on so I held the power button down until it turned off.

 

[ScooterComputer]

When will Apple fix Mail.app? Still corrupting my mail database!

What is your "repair" procedure? Are you doing a Rebuild from inside Mail, doing Spotlight reindex, or other?

(I'm especially interested if you say Rebuild. In my Mail travails with clients, I found that Spotlight was somehow the culprit; and Rebuilding from Mail would only ever be a temporary, APPARENT false-fix. Following Apple's instructions to delete and rebuild the Spotlight data on the drive provided a longer "fix". But, again, usually temporary in the end. In 10.9 and later, Mail relies much more heavily on Spotlight to do its heavy lifting, and corruption in the Spotlight data causes problems that the underlying Mail data doesn't inherently have. Console logs also seem to indicate this too, with sporadic date parsing errors and encoding errors. I don't think the Mail database is getting corrupted, I think it is Mail indexing that data into Spotlight that introduces the "corruption", and then Mail relies on that corrupted Spotlight data to actually display and sort/process messages. This would, rather ironically, explain Apple's seeming deafness to Mail problems…because it may turn out Mail itself works fine! The problem is in Spotlight and Mail's over-reliance on it. Just a working hypothesis…)

 

[GIZBUG]

Like all other betas on El Captain, after installing, my charger does not charge my macbook Air. Even doing the Shift/Control/Option power button, doesn't fix it. Says its connected, but no light on the charge, and not charging, just using the power to hold the current charge I have. Cmon now.