Apple Seeds Third macOS Sierra 10.12.4 Beta to Developers

[Guy Clark]

Right then. Go get yourself a roll of tinfoil, make a hat and sit quietly in the corner free of any Apple products.
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Why are you dealing with betas when you clearly have little/no clue about the OS and it's most basic features?

I've been around here a very long time and I'm tired of misinformed, uneducated posts from those that just want to flame because Apple didn't do exactly what you wanted on the last product cycle upgrade.

If you want something badly, read up on what we have and if you still can't find it ask *nicely* and someone here will try to help. Failing that, communicate with Apple directly.

Do not come on here bitching about your own personal idea of utopia when you don't have a grasp of the basics.

I've had enough of the pointless beta moaners. Be constructive or get out.

I am sorry but you are very wrong. As a long time Mac user since OS X 10.3 Panther (still running on a PowerMac G4 through to macOS Sierra running on a Late 2009 iMac) I am qualified to criticise be it constructively or otherwise.

Granted Beta releases are what they are and shouldn't be run on production machines but there is room for criticism all the same.

What use is the TouchBar on the MacBook when it is fundamentally inferior to function keys?

What use are emojii and how does it increase productivity? It brings nothing positive to macOS.

A Previous generation Retina MacBook Pro running OS X Mavericks is infinitely superior .

No point in contacting Apple directly. The closest the Beta tester be it Developer or Public get to corresponding with Apple is via the Feedback Hub and no they don't listen as Apple have an agenda and they are sticking to it.

 

[jobesucks]

Anyone know if apple are planning to make night shift available to older Macs, still not available on mid 2011 iMac

 

[celaurie]

Like I said, tinfoil hat...

 

[Recognition]

Probably for now, but once Apple decides that its good for you, then I don't expect to be able to turn it off, that is the new Apple, who appears to have the goal to force the world to do what it thinks is correct, instead of letting the user decide.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

- Henry Ford

 

[Johnny907]

So we know Apple employees don't get Presidents Day off.

Neither did I, and millions of other people. What's your point?

 

[Guy Clark]

Like I said, tinfoil hat...

Please explain.

 

[Eric5h5]

Probably for now, but once Apple decides that its good for you, then I don't expect to be able to turn it off, that is the new Apple, who appears to have the goal to force the world to do what it thinks is correct, instead of letting the user decide.

Not only is this behavior that Apple has never engaged in, it's the opposite. (i.e., get complaints about something, introduce feature to make the thing optional.)

--Eric

 

[Guy Clark]

Like I said, tinfoil hat...

So which Operating systems do you work with?

Are you like myself cross platform with the advantage of bringing a balanced opinion to the table?

I work with.

macOS 10.12.3 Sierra
OS X 10.9.5 Mavericks
OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
OS X 10.3.9 Panther

Apricity OS (Arch Linux)

Windows 7
Windows 10

 

[celaurie]

I am sorry but you are very wrong. As a long time Mac user since OS X 10.3 Panther (still running on a PowerMac G4 through to macOS Sierra running on a Late 2009 iMac) I am qualified to criticise be it constructively or otherwise.

Granted Beta releases are what they are and shouldn't be run on production machines but there is room for criticism all the same.

What use is the TouchBar on the MacBook when it is fundamentally inferior to function keys?

What use are emojii and how does it increase productivity? It brings nothing positive to macOS.

A Previous generation Retina MacBook Pro running OS X Mavericks is infinitely superior .

No point in contacting Apple directly. The closest the Beta tester be it Developer or Public get to corresponding with Apple is via the Feedback Hub and no they don't listen as Apple have an agenda and they are sticking to it.

So which Operating systems do you work with?

Are you like myself cross platform with the advantage of bringing a balanced opinion to the table?

I work with.

macOS 10.12.3 Sierra
OS X 10.9.5 Mavericks
OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
OS X 10.3.9 Panther

Apricity OS (Arch Linux)

Windows 7
Windows 10

Mate, your opinion is neither balanced nor informed. In fact, all I'm hearing is playground finger pointing and blahing.

One question I have, is do you have anything more current than a 2009 iMac or any experience of actually using a touch bar?

I work with most modern operating systems and coding platforms and have done since 1992 (yes, I remember the revolution of System 7) with a particular interest in security and solidity. So, as you can imagine I've been there for the highs and lows of them all. The progression and stability of the MacOS is unparalleled and you don't have to take my world for it, go out there and read the information for yourself.

The one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me is continuing to work with outdated software and then bemoaning the fact that the world has moved on.

Yes, there are always going to be features that one might not use in a newer release, but that's the thing with an OS, it's designed to be used by various parties for multiple uses. You will never get a special MacOS 10.x 'Guy Clark' build no matter how much you shout about hating emoji and other OPTIONAL features. No one is making you use them as you suggest.

On that subject, imagine the outcry if Apple didn't include something as basic as emoji - it would be called archaic, out of touch and pointless and you'd probably be leading the charge... Some folk are never happy, no matter what they get.

To be clear, I am overall very happy with the direction of the OS with a few minor harrumphs to features lost. There will always be 'bug bears' but being a beta tester allows me to constructively feedback and be actively involved. In the past, I've had great engagement with Apple staff both online and in person.

As for Apple hardware, I reckon it's got to be pretty hard to keep pushing the boundaries AND come up with a unique selling point MAKING SURE to include all the things that everyone wants WHILST maintaining a reputation for quality AND retaining a reputation for innovation AFTER taking an existing technology and making it fundamentally better and more user friendly.

But hey, what do I know?

 

[adrianlondon]

I'm still using the Safari.app from the first beta as the second and third have broken SIMBL apps I use. If it stays that way then I'll have to move on and lose Cookies which I use to delete all non-favourite cookies on browser exit. I like that functionality and I'll probably try to replicate it via an applescript or something equally kludgy. I also use SafariStand for tab favicons and address-bar lengthening, but I can live without those.

Safe to update on a primary machine? Or still generally not recommended?

In my opinion, it's perfectly stable and usable on a primary machine. It's working for me.

 

[Jayderek]

You mean like headphone jacks and USB-A ports?

sounds like you need to look at other products if what this company is offering doesn't meet your needs (or deal with the adapters which really aren't that much of a problem)

 

[loby]

Mate, your opinion is neither balanced nor informed. In fact, all I'm hearing is playground finger pointing and blahing.

One question I have, is do you have anything more current than a 2009 iMac or any experience of actually using a touch bar?

I work with most modern operating systems and coding platforms and have done since 1992 (yes, I remember the revolution of System 7) with a particular interest in security and solidity. So, as you can imagine I've been there for the highs and lows of them all. The progression and stability of the MacOS is unparalleled and you don't have to take my world for it, go out there and read the information for yourself.

The one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me is continuing to work with outdated software and then bemoaning the fact that the world has moved on.

Yes, there are always going to be features that one might not use in a newer release, but that's the thing with an OS, it's designed to be used by various parties for multiple uses. You will never get a special MacOS 10.x 'Guy Clark' build no matter how much you shout about hating emoji and other OPTIONAL features. No one is making you use them as you suggest.

On that subject, imagine the outcry if Apple didn't include something as basic as emoji - it would be called archaic, out of touch and pointless and you'd probably be leading the charge... Some folk are never happy, no matter what they get.

To be clear, I am overall very happy with the direction of the OS with a few minor harrumphs to features lost. There will always be 'bug bears' but being a beta tester allows me to constructively feedback and be actively involved. In the past, I've had great engagement with Apple staff both online and in person.

As for Apple hardware, I reckon it's got to be pretty hard to keep pushing the boundaries AND come up with a unique selling point MAKING SURE to include all the things that everyone wants WHILST maintaining a reputation for quality AND retaining a reputation for innovation AFTER taking an existing technology and making it fundamentally better and more user friendly.

But hey, what do I know?

Great comment and agree. I think you are on the wrong forum and website, You make too much sense..

Complaining never amounts to anything.

As far as beta testing, if people engage with being a tester, you have the ability to possibly get bugs that bother you every day resolved if you do constructive feedback to apple.

I agree with your comment. I am tired of reading nothing but complaints. Do that on another thread. Beta testing threads are read to see what is happening and sometimes try to work out some bugs to improve the OS.

Complainers should just stay on the iphone forum..

 

[xgman]

Complainers should just stay on the iphone forum..

One could argue that some complaining leads to some bug fixes.

 

[celaurie]

One could argue that some complaining leads to some bug fixes.

Hah! Don't start a discussion on the line between feedback and complaint!
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Great comment and agree. I think you are on the wrong forum and website, You make too much sense..

Complaining never amounts to anything.

As far as beta testing, if people engage with being a tester, you have the ability to possibly get bugs that bother you every day resolved if you do constructive feedback to apple.

I agree with your comment. I am tired of reading nothing but complaints. Do that on another thread. Beta testing threads are read to see what is happening and sometimes try to work out some bugs to improve the OS.

Complainers should just stay on the iphone forum..

Hang on, did someone just agree with me? I must be getting soft in my approach!

 

[Guy Clark]

Great comment and agree. I think you are on the wrong forum and website, You make too much sense..

Complaining never amounts to anything.

As far as beta testing, if people engage with being a tester, you have the ability to possibly get bugs that bother you every day resolved if you do constructive feedback to apple.

I agree with your comment. I am tired of reading nothing but complaints. Do that on another thread. Beta testing threads are read to see what is happening and sometimes try to work out some bugs to improve the OS.

Complainers should just stay on the iphone forum..

Except this forum is called MacRumors however given the increasing amount of iOS articles it should be renamed iRumors.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Like f.lux, you'll be able to configure it to turn on and off automatically based on sunset, sunrise, or a specific time of day. If you're watching Netflix movies later at night, and you want to be able to sleep better, this really helps. It's not meant for productivity work. I'm constantly disabling f.lux when I'm doing work later at night.

I don't know about YOU, but I want the CORRECT colors when I watch movies too. This is a solution in search of a problem! Some people work nights. The last thing they want to do is fall asleep on the job (well maybe some do). My question was going to be whether this even CAN be turned off. Apple has a bad habit of FORCING THEIR GUI CHANGES on EVERYONE. Steve Jobs started this with his 'everyone's desktop should look like MY desktop' crap and his obsession was black/grey. Oh, you don't like the pastel color scheme of the iPhone and freaky new icons in OS X (oops I mean macOS) since Tim Cook took over? Too bad. Pastels for everyone!

In short, I want my colors to be the same all day and all night long and as close to correct as possible. I don't ever want orangy skin tones or purple ones. That's HORRIBLE.

 

[Guy Clark]

Mate, your opinion is neither balanced nor informed. In fact, all I'm hearing is playground finger pointing and blahing.

One question I have, is do you have anything more current than a 2009 iMac or any experience of actually using a touch bar?

I work with most modern operating systems and coding platforms and have done since 1992 (yes, I remember the revolution of System 7) with a particular interest in security and solidity. So, as you can imagine I've been there for the highs and lows of them all. The progression and stability of the MacOS is unparalleled and you don't have to take my world for it, go out there and read the information for yourself.

The one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me is continuing to work with outdated software and then bemoaning the fact that the world has moved on.

Yes, there are always going to be features that one might not use in a newer release, but that's the thing with an OS, it's designed to be used by various parties for multiple uses. You will never get a special MacOS 10.x 'Guy Clark' build no matter how much you shout about hating emoji and other OPTIONAL features. No one is making you use them as you suggest.

On that subject, imagine the outcry if Apple didn't include something as basic as emoji - it would be called archaic, out of touch and pointless and you'd probably be leading the charge... Some folk are never happy, no matter what they get.

To be clear, I am overall very happy with the direction of the OS with a few minor harrumphs to features lost. There will always be 'bug bears' but being a beta tester allows me to constructively feedback and be actively involved. In the past, I've had great engagement with Apple staff both online and in person.

As for Apple hardware, I reckon it's got to be pretty hard to keep pushing the boundaries AND come up with a unique selling point MAKING SURE to include all the things that everyone wants WHILST maintaining a reputation for quality AND retaining a reputation for innovation AFTER taking an existing technology and making it fundamentally better and more user friendly.

But hey, what do I know?

Yes I have worked with the new MacBook Pro. Running my own IT company it is my business to know the in and outs.

There are three substantial omissions

1) Function keys.
2) Thunderbolt.
3) USB 3.0

The Touchbar is no substitute for Function keys and as for USB-C the number of Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 Docking stations available to make up for the lack of speaks volumes for itself.

MacBook/MacBook Pro ventilation concerns. Apple have an obsession with thinness so much to the point it will inevitably impact on the life cycle of interior components. It has already been well documented of instances where Graphics on the new MacBook Pros. have been cooked due to insufficient ventilation.

Build quality. Older Macs throughout the range have superior Build Quality. As size and weight diminish so does inevitably the strength of the materials used in production.

The only Mac product that Apple haven't as of yet turned in to a fashion product is the iMac. The 27" 5k Retina iMac is an awesome piece of kit but as soon as Apple sodomise that with a Touchbar and USB-C then the Microsoft Surface Studio could well come in to play. Yes its not just Apple producing high end gear so quit drinking the Kool-aid.

I didn't begin working with OS X until 10.3 as previous releases were just too unstable. I started out with MacOS 7 and worked up before I migrated from MacOS 9.2

What possibly use can emoji have for the consumer that uses a Mac for productivity? Rather than wasting development time on emoji it would have been better spent on improving the OS as a whole.

Right to Repair. The likes of iFixit and OWC offer a second to none professional service.

Older Macs Are Better.

 

[nt5672]

Not only is this behavior that Apple has never engaged in, it's the opposite. (i.e., get complaints about something, introduce feature to make the thing optional.)

--Eric

Well my computers get functionality removed with every update and get new functionality that is seldom used. You think that is rational, I don't. No problem, you will probably get the Apple you want, I won't, so I rant about it in the off case that someone steps back and wants to understand.

Apple wants to make their toys with just an on/off button (obviously an extreme example to make a point) that you throw away after 2 years. If you step back you can see that is the trend, a trend that I don't like. I want to be able to personalize my toys. For example, try to set up a new mail account some time that is not one of the listed email providers. Apple has removed the functionality to not use their auto setup UI, which said UI is crap if you know what you are doing. Have you looked recently at the dumbed down Disk First Aid app, lots of things gone from a few years ago. Etc., etc., etc.
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"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would of said faster horses."

- Henry Ford

Henry Ford did not have a nationwide stable of horses for sale and did not kill off all of the horses a year or more before he introduced the his first auto. Which is what Apple does today.

 

[talmy]

Neither did I, and millions of other people. What's your point?

Not only are these betas normally released on Tuesdays, Apple frequently closes for holidays and even for extended times (all of Thanksgiving week, for instance). So a release on a Monday which is also a holiday is very unusual.

I never had Presidents Day/Washington's Birthday off either.

 

[djeeyore25]

Apparently this fixed an issue I was having with my thunderbolt 2 hard drive not launching on boot. I'd have to reset the drive to get all the partitions to show up. I was worried something was wrong with my hard drive, so whew!

 

[JackieTreehorn]

Public beta is out too...

 

[AndyUnderscoreR]

Remove the emoji keyboard from settings and don't use emoji.

And that will stop people sending me messages with emoji in how?

 

[C DM]

And that will stop people sending me messages with emoji in how?

Well, that's not you using using emoji but others, and you can't really control what other people do. You can certainly ask them not to do it with you, or you can block them from communicating with you, but that's more or less the kinds of things you can do. Similar to people forwarding annoying emails to you, or making annoying calls to you, or sending annoying letters to you, or ringing your doorbell when you don't feel like opening the door, etc., etc., etc.

 

[oldtime]

I'm kinda excited about Night Shift. I know that flux offers the same functionality but I notice some weird artifacting with it. So, I hope/think Night Shift will be free of it.

Yeah I like flux but it seems a bit buggy. Especially when waking from sleep, my monitor seems to go a little haywire deciding how it wants to display. Hopefully NS will be a little calmer.

 

[adrianlondon]

I had no problems with Flux and was using it since it was released. However I've now switched to the native Night Shift which seems to do the job just as well.