Apple Seeds Third macOS Tahoe Public Beta

[judgeFire]

Launchpad is still gone, right?
I’m not downgrading until it’s back or there’s an alternative app.

The new 'Apps' app replaces Launchpad, essentially opening a Spotlight derivative UI.

 

[Ursadorable]

Quite a cynical take on what is obviously a more logical naming system for their ever-expanding collection of operating systems.

If it's so logical, then why not call them M26 processors?

 

[PBG4 Dude]

I miss bug fix releases like Snow Leopard back in the day.

I miss when updates went to 11 like Tiger 10.4.11.

 

[sleeptodream]

Well Applications is already in the pinned list in Finder so it's only one extra click away from being on the Dock.

Two clicks, apps need to be double clicked to be opened from Finder But for me it’s not even close, the folder in the dock feels so much more slick

 

[sleeptodream]

I'm actually bothered most by the insane corner radii at the edge of every window. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but it makes it all look very cartoonish.

Also, I just launched the Contacts app and, whoof, it really burns the eyes.

Agreed, it feels like they took the radius a pixel or two too far, it just doesn’t seem to jibe with MacOS windows well, esp since they often have buttons or tools in the corners, unlike on iOS/iPadOS

 

[GlamCheese666]

Thankfully people are showing there’s a terminal command to bring back Launchpad in Tahoe. That’s one of the first things I’ll be doing when it comes out. With the four finger gesture, it’s the easiest way to access/organize common apps I use that I don’t use often enough to keep in the dock. Stacks was nice, but Launchpad was far better and the iPad “Home gesture” made it cleaner than leaving Launchpad in the dock

 

[icwhatudidthere]

Looks fine on historic M1 Air. So far it looks damn bland to me. I will have to dig for nitpicking stuff.

Yeah the problem is Apple is scaling the icon highlighting depending on how many apps are open.

It's fine if you have a few apps open:

But gets progressively worse as you open more:

Until it scales down to a pixel or two. Also note the transparency makes it hard to read if you have a dark app because they're not adapting the text to the background.

 

[trash eighty]

Is there more of a border around the Dock in PB3 compared to PB2, maybe its always looked like i dunno but it seems different.

 

[anthony131]

Your right — it's actually better — rather than pages and pages with no reasonable way to organize them simply, it now starts by showing a row of your recently used apps, categories you can immediately jump to (like Utilities, productivity or social), all without taking over your entire screen. It puts the emphasis on typing a letter to narrow down the remains results — which is the exact same functionality the last one had – but in a more useful and contextually aware implementation because your screen hasn't been blurred out, nor do you have to swipe through pages to find what you want. PLUS it adds the ability to jump into an iPhone app right there (if you want, you can easily turn it off).

I don’t know which of us is having problems using computers. I have one page of apps in Launchpad. I have it well organized into folders. I can open any app on my computer in no more than a swipe, click, swipe, click. Usually just one swipe-click because my most used are not in folders.
Having to think of the name of the app I want and type out letters on my keyboard is much less efficient and intuitive when I can visually arrange the apps based on most used and into folders pertaining to particular interests (music, photo, browsers, utilities, other).
The problem with the App Library on iOS is the apps are organized into groups that often don’t make sense to me. I do not want the computer to decide what category an app should be in. I want that control. I will not update to an operating system that doesn’t give me this control because it is a downgrade to how I interact with the OS.

 

[anthony131]

If you can go from a mouse pointer anywhere on the screen to triggering LaunchPad to aiming to any app and tapping/clicking an app to launch it in under a second, props to you. Sincerely, that's impressive. Personally, I find it quicker to cmd-space and typing a couple characters since there's no need to move the mouse, and it keeps the mouse where it was. Admittedly, I've been at this a bit longer than you, so maybe I need to hit the Aimlabs. 😆 I've also removed 90% of the icons from the Springboard of my iPhone and iPads too since it's maddeningly cluttered to use folders and slow to flip pages. It's so much faster to just start typing an app's name.

This is wild to me.
You are saying it is easier to open a search bar on your phone, recall the name of the app you want to open, start typing that name with two thumbs, then select the icon for that app than it is to just tap on the icon for the app without having to do any of the above.
I do not get how you find this to be a reasonable way to use a device or how you believe this is a winning argument.
I’ve been using a Mac since 1993 and had the first iPhone. Which of us has been at this longer?

 

[ebika]

This is wild to me.
You are saying it is easier to open a search bar on your phone, recall the name of the app you want to open, start typing that name with two thumbs, then select the icon for that app than it is to just tap on the icon for the app without having to do any of the above.
I do not get how you find this to be a reasonable way to use a device or how you believe this is a winning argument.

For the phone, sure, it's how I've refined my usage. I used to have a bunch of pages, grouping some apps into folders. I think it was 8 pages or something. I didn't particularly enjoy curating the locations and folders of all the app icons so I opted out for most and focused on the few. Finding and launching the most-used by flipping and tapping worked fine for me. Finding the less frequently used ones was a pain because I'd forget where they were by the very fact I didn't use them often. So now I have my four most-used apps on the Dock, I have two pages of glanceable widgets along with 28 most frequently used apps, and everything else is only in the app library.

For example, I have the SkyView, Sky Guide, and Night Sky apps. I rarely use them and got them during a limited $0 time window because why not (at least one was normally paid. They may have gone free or freemium since then). Sure, I could put a folder on page 7 or whatever, or I can pull down with a finger and tap s-k-y to find and launch one of them. I wouldn't typically remember where exactly those icons or that folder was, so looking for their icons was a little tedious. I do also sometimes use the build-in App Library that was added to one of the later versions of iOS and iPadOS to just browse instead of using the search bar.

I realize mileage will vary based on app count. Apparently I have 278 apps installed. Most are rarely used or clutter (I'm looking at you, apps needed to add stickers to Messages).

I’ve been using a Mac since 1993 and had the first iPhone. Which of us has been at this longer?

Based on what you wrote, I have, not that that is a great metric for all this imo.

 

[Websnapx2]

I don’t know which of us is having problems using computers. I have one page of apps in Launchpad. I have it well organized into folders. I can open any app on my computer in no more than a swipe, click, swipe, click. Usually just one swipe-click because my most used are not in folders.
Having to think of the name of the app I want and type out letters on my keyboard is much less efficient and intuitive when I can visually arrange the apps based on most used and into folders pertaining to particular interests (music, photo, browsers, utilities, other).
The problem with the App Library on iOS is the apps are organized into groups that often don’t make sense to me. I do not want the computer to decide what category an app should be in. I want that control. I will not update to an operating system that doesn’t give me this control because it is a downgrade to how I interact with the OS.

With respect, you are talking about muscle memory, and not an intuitive user experience. That being said, if you have a solution that works for you that you like, I get it, but it doesn’t mean it’s better —just that it's better for you because of the learned muscle memory. At some point you took the time to make folders and painstakingly organized them one at a time, dragging them to be in the final state you've been using for as long as you have been using them, creating a state of personal efficiency. I appreciate the reluctance to let go of that — but as a whole, and to a new user on a new machine that just finished installing a full slew of new apps and utilities, they will have pages and pages of apps to comb through (currently I have 4 on my work machine I haven’t upgraded to the beta, I tried organizing them into individual folders but as software gets updated, they rarely stay where I've put them). Plus Launch Pad does not have a simple and intuitive way to mass organize icons.

This new method does most of the work for you and after just a few day of using it, I never looked back. I trigger spotlight, type in “IL” for illustrator and enter — bam — i’m in the app. Plus you don’t always “Have to” type — like the phone, siri gets to know what you might be using and serves it up as a suggestion, and that takes a few days of use to learn. You may not need to type at all. Like software, muscle memory can be upgraded based on new information/processes, and I feel the benefits over time will outstrip the reluctance of change. But to be clear — all things being equal — this new method is a better solution to the vast majority of users not looking to organize folders in a utility meant to be used for fractions of a second, in just a few handful of times a day. Essentially, it would make much more sense having the folders organized in the actual App folder, then having those nested folders as stacks on the dock — then you are always two clicks away from very specific apps, and you remain in control of your app categories.

 

[Websnapx2]

For the phone, sure, it's how I've refined my usage. I used to have a bunch of pages, grouping some apps into folders. I think it was 8 pages or something. I didn't particularly enjoy curating the locations and folders of all the app icons so I opted out for most and focused on the few. Finding and launching the most-used by flipping and tapping worked fine for me. Finding the less frequently used ones was a pain because I'd forget where they were by the very fact I didn't use them often. So now I have my four most-used apps on the Dock, I have two pages of glanceable widgets along with 28 most frequently used apps, and everything else is only in the app library.

For example, I have the SkyView, Sky Guide, and Night Sky apps. I rarely use them and got them during a limited $0 time window because why not (at least one was normally paid. They may have gone free or freemium since then). Sure, I could put a folder on page 7 or whatever, or I can pull down with a finger and tap s-k-y to find and launch one of them. I wouldn't typically remember where exactly those icons or that folder was, so looking for their icons was a little tedious. I do also sometimes use the build-in App Library that was added to one of the later versions of iOS and iPadOS to just browse instead of using the search bar.

I realize mileage will vary based on app count. Apparently I have 278 apps installed. Most are rarely used or clutter (I'm looking at you, apps needed to add stickers to Messages).


Based on what you wrote, I have, not that that is a great metric for all this imo.

This, +1000

 

[anthony131]

For the phone, sure, it's how I've refined my usage. I used to have a bunch of pages, grouping some apps into folders. I think it was 8 pages or something. I didn't particularly enjoy curating the locations and folders of all the app icons so I opted out for most and focused on the few. Finding and launching the most-used by flipping and tapping worked fine for me. Finding the less frequently used ones was a pain because I'd forget where they were by the very fact I didn't use them often. So now I have my four most-used apps on the Dock, I have two pages of glanceable widgets along with 28 most frequently used apps, and everything else is only in the app library.

For example, I have the SkyView, Sky Guide, and Night Sky apps. I rarely use them and got them during a limited $0 time window because why not (at least one was normally paid. They may have gone free or freemium since then). Sure, I could put a folder on page 7 or whatever, or I can pull down with a finger and tap s-k-y to find and launch one of them. I wouldn't typically remember where exactly those icons or that folder was, so looking for their icons was a little tedious. I do also sometimes use the build-in App Library that was added to one of the later versions of iOS and iPadOS to just browse instead of using the search bar.

I realize mileage will vary based on app count. Apparently I have 278 apps installed. Most are rarely used or clutter (I'm looking at you, apps needed to add stickers to Messages).


Based on what you wrote, I have, not that that is a great metric for all this imo.

I think the way in which you and I use our devices and the application on them is very different. If I'm not using an app enough to even remember it exists, I delete it. A few times a year, I'll sit down and offload stuff I'm no longer using and rearrange the placement of apps so they're easier to reach with my thumb.

My iPhone has a total of 19 apps (including the dock) on one home screen. Other things I might use less frequently (weather, Lyft, calendar, steps, sports scores, shortcuts, etc) are set as widgets in the - what's it called when you swipe to the left-most page - the widget page?

Same on my Mac, I have one Launchpad page of apps with seven folders of lesser used apps.
I access my apps based on visual memorization. I know where everything is because I have the control over where they are and how I know my brain will want to access them. I don't know if it's perfect but it seems awfully close to it. In fact, I'll more often use Launchpad than I'll use the dock - I think mostly because the target is smaller.

So, if Apple is taking away the ability for me to place applications in a grid in which I can manage them, then that's a downgrade to how I, and I'm sure millions of other people, use the operating system.

 

[anthony131]

With respect, you are talking about muscle memory, and not an intuitive user experience. That being said, if you have a solution that works for you that you like, I get it, but it doesn’t mean it’s better —just that it's better for you because of the learned muscle memory. At some point you took the time to make folders and painstakingly organized them one at a time, dragging them to be in the final state you've been using for as long as you have been using them, creating a state of personal efficiency. I appreciate the reluctance to let go of that — but as a whole, and to a new user on a new machine that just finished installing a full slew of new apps and utilities, they will have pages and pages of apps to comb through (currently I have 4 on my work machine I haven’t upgraded to the beta, I tried organizing them into individual folders but as software gets updated, they rarely stay where I've put them). Plus Launch Pad does not have a simple and intuitive way to mass organize icons.

This new method does most of the work for you and after just a few day of using it, I never looked back. I trigger spotlight, type in “IL” for illustrator and enter — bam — i’m in the app. Plus you don’t always “Have to” type — like the phone, siri gets to know what you might be using and serves it up as a suggestion, and that takes a few days of use to learn. You may not need to type at all. Like software, muscle memory can be upgraded based on new information/processes, and I feel the benefits over time will outstrip the reluctance of change. But to be clear — all things being equal — this new method is a better solution to the vast majority of users not looking to organize folders in a utility meant to be used for fractions of a second, in just a few handful of times a day. Essentially, it would make much more sense having the folders organized in the actual App folder, then having those nested folders as stacks on the dock — then you are always two clicks away from very specific apps, and you remain in control of your app categories.

>you are talking about muscle memory, and not an intuitive user experience

In this case, muscle memory is established by the existing intuitive user experience - a wide grid of memorable icons that represent the function of the software they launch. Regardless of their ability to be organized, it's more intuitive for a new user to learn what software is on the computer and how to access that software than it is hiding the software in a more restrictive list or requiring the they know the name of the application to enter a search prompt.

If your argument is that a text based operating system is more intuitive than a graphical one, I'm afraid you're going to lose that argument (outside of Linux users).

Yeah - you've totally hit the nail on the head with what I can not tolerate. I don't want Siri / the OS to suggest what I want. I know what I want when I want it and I want to be certain that it's always where I left it. Suggesting what it thinks I want and moving what I actually want somewhere else breaks my concentration and makes my workflow less efficient.

We were all new users once. Did we have a hard time understanding how to launch applications?

I guess we're getting a glimpse into the future. One where the computers / AI does all the thinking for us. I'm sure at some point, "computers" will go away and the OS will just exist in the breeze and do everything for us without even having to think about it. We'll become slaves to a "higher intelligence".

In the meantime, I'll put my apps where I please, thank you.

 

[ebika]

I think the way in which you and I use our devices and the application on them is very different. If I'm not using an app enough to even remember it exists, I delete it. A few times a year, I'll sit down and offload stuff I'm no longer using and rearrange the placement of apps so they're easier to reach with my thumb.

My iPhone has a total of 19 apps (including the dock) on one home screen. Other things I might use less frequently (weather, Lyft, calendar, steps, sports scores, shortcuts, etc) are set as widgets in the - what's it called when you swipe to the left-most page - the widget page?

Same on my Mac, I have one Launchpad page of apps with seven folders of lesser used apps.
I access my apps based on visual memorization. I know where everything is because I have the control over where they are and how I know my brain will want to access them. I don't know if it's perfect but it seems awfully close to it. In fact, I'll more often use Launchpad than I'll use the dock - I think mostly because the target is smaller.

So, if Apple is taking away the ability for me to place applications in a grid in which I can manage them, then that's a downgrade to how I, and I'm sure millions of other people, use the operating system.

Yeah, that makes sense. If I could get down to 19 apps I wouldn't bother using Spotlight either. My 278 apps is with deleting the ones I don't remember exist. Mostly. I keep and hide the ones I remember are there but I don't use often, like Amazon Alexa, Ecobee, and Eero. The config in those doesn't exist elsewhere and I need it sometimes.

 

[Ensoniq]

Has anyone successfully seen Live Activities on the Menubar in the Public Beta? I use Instacart often, and though my settings are all correct I've never seen it show up on the Mac.

 

[anthony131]

Yeah, that makes sense. If I could get down to 19 apps I wouldn't bother using Spotlight either. My 278 apps is with deleting the ones I don't remember exist. Mostly. I keep and hide the ones I remember are there but I don't use often, like Amazon Alexa, Ecobee, and Eero. The config in those doesn't exist elsewhere and I need it sometimes.

Also, FWIW, I just tried using Spotlight on my Mac to open Stickies and it didn't even recognize it. Maybe it's better in OS26 but I forgot that one of the big reasons I haven't used Spotlight is because of how unreliable it has been.

I also have a spreadsheet in Numbers called "Bills" that I use a few times a month which Spotlight fails to acknowledge. It instead gives me results for billskhakis.com, the Buffalo Bills, and "Bills Donald Trump", whatever that means. I instead use the contextual menu on Numbers in the Doc to open recently opened docs.

Apple has been teasing us for years that this assistant will be here to help us and it has continued to fail to deliver this promise. Had they delivered on the promise they pitched when they delivered the product, perhaps had I've less distrust of technology making decisions for us.

 

[ebika]

Also, FWIW, I just tried using Spotlight on my Mac to open Stickies and it didn't even recognize it. Maybe it's better in OS26 but I forgot that one of the big reasons I haven't used Spotlight is because of how unreliable it has been.

I also have a spreadsheet in Numbers called "Bills" that I use a few times a month which Spotlight fails to acknowledge. It instead gives me results for billskhakis.com, the Buffalo Bills, and "Bills Donald Trump", whatever that means. I instead use the contextual menu on Numbers in the Doc to open recently opened docs.

Apple has been teasing us for years that this assistant will be here to help us and it has continued to fail to deliver this promise. Had they delivered on the promise they pitched when they delivered the product, perhaps had I've less distrust of technology making decisions for us.

I can't speak to why that didn't work for you. I just tried cmd-space-S-T-I and it found Stickies.app right away like it has for me for a long time. The only time I've had inconsistencies was right after an install/upgrade when it is reindexing. I'm not refuting your experience at all, just saying I haven't been able to replicate that. (at least Stickies is still there in Tahoe).

Just FYI, you can get to the recent files contextual list in Spotlight too to avoid its web search. It's cmd-space-N-U-M-tab. I think that was there prior to Tahoe. It's for sure in Tahoe though. No argument on the missed expectations on tech. I'm on the inside (industy, not Apple specifically), so I have some insights into how those expectations get missed, but it's still annoying for me too.

 

[Websnapx2]

>you are talking about muscle memory, and not an intuitive user experience

In this case, muscle memory is established by the existing intuitive user experience - a wide grid of memorable icons that represent the function of the software they launch.

Sort of a Chicken and egg situation. It was adopted because you thought it was intuitive, your muscle memory came by way of sticking to it and reapplying in a repetitive motion. It is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy that you think the thing you chose to customize and continue to use daily just so happens to be the best and most efficient way to accomplish that task, that's your muscle memory compounded its efficiency. Having done new user training for Apple and their customers, a wide grid of icons is not inherently an intuitive user experience (we’ve all just adapted at different levels to expect some sort of version of that) and is often overwhelming. They also don’t all easily represent their function at all, so I really think you are confusing your learned proficiency with an intuitive user experience. Let someone unfamiliar with your set up or your applications onto your system and see if the efficiency is transferable.

Regardless of their ability to be organized, it's more intuitive for a new user to learn what software is on the computer and how to access that software than it is hiding the software in a more restrictive list or requiring the they know the name of the application to enter a search prompt.

Launchpad doesn’t tell you more about the software than how it appears in spotlight in MacOS 26. It may make sense for you because you took the time to organize it in a way that made sense for you, but for the uninitiated your set up would need to be learned and understood to make sense to them like either does for you.

If your argument is that a text based operating system is more intuitive than a graphical one, I'm afraid you're going to lose that argument (outside of Linux users).

Was never my argument — but if someone knew what they were looking for but just didn’t know where it was, searching by name is better than flipping through pages of apps they may be unfamiliar with... they may just know (or have been told) the name.

Yeah - you've totally hit the nail on the head with what I can not tolerate. I don't want Siri / the OS to suggest what I want. I know what I want when I want it and I want to be certain that it's always where I left it. Suggesting what it thinks I want and moving what I actually want somewhere else breaks my concentration and makes my workflow less efficient.

That’s a personal choice, but in no way exemplary of what an “intuitive interface” is. You’ve literally described a custom interface that by definition isn’t intuitive, but customized to an individuals preferences and needs. No one is saying that’s bad, just that it’s not what intuitive means.

We were all new users once. Did we have a hard time understanding how to launch applications?

With respect that’s a straw man argument — no one has said launching applications is hard to understand — the argument is what is more intuitive for someone to help them FIND the app they are looking for or need.

I guess we're getting a glimpse into the future. One where the computers / AI does all the thinking for us. I'm sure at some point, "computers" will go away and the OS will just exist in the breeze and do everything for us without even having to think about it. We'll become slaves to a "higher intelligence".

That’s a really weird line of thinking. Allowing the software the recommend things it thinks you need has been a staple of OSs for generations now. The save dialogue recommends recent locations it thinks you may want to save a file. When I restart, my work shares automatically mount, assuming I will want to connect to them again. When I open a document with weird fonts, software usually recommends loading that font for me. Mail auto fills addresses it thinks I’m contacting based on frequency. There a tons of scenarios where software is specifically taking mundane tasks out of your way so you can focus on work — it in no way makes us slaves to a higher intelligence. There are other scenarios where that may be fitting but on this I feel you are alone on.

In the meantime, I'll put my apps where I please, thank you.

Dude, no one was telling you to do anything. Software doesn’t wait for anyone, this change is happening. It’s unfortunate you couldn’t see my suggestion for what it was — friendly, constructive suggestion to maintain the sort of “efficiency” you seem to be upset to loose if you were to upgrade, from a member of a like-minded community. That was the spirit it was offered in.

Have a good day.