Apple Selling New 60W and 240W USB-C Woven Charge Cables

[RamGuy]

The iPhone 15 Pro supports WiFi 6E. If you have a Mac that also supports 6E and spend a few hundred on a router that supports 6E it still won’t approach the 10Gbps that the USB port is (theoretically) capable of.

EDIT: So it turns out that there are some 6E routers that claim better than 10Gbps for a lot more money than a TB4 cable.

WiFi 6E / 802.11ax 6GHz has a maximum of 4.8Gbps using 160Hz at 4x4. This is all theoretical of course, and WiFi is half-duplex, wired is full-duplex. This means that you get half the theoretical throughput when data is being transferred back and forth at the same time. And in pretty much 99% of all scenarios you will have read and write going on at the same time, this lowers the maximum theoretical throughput of WiFi 6E down to 2.2 Gbps.

Pretty much every client device, like the iPhone 15 Pro, is using 2x2. Going 4x4 requires more space and will have much higher power usage. You won't ever find that in a phone, or tablet, even 99% of all notebooks opt for 2x2 over 4x4. The only place you'll find 4x4 is in expensive network equipment and an external card for desktop use.

This brings WiFi 6E for the iPhone 15 Pro down to 1.1Gbps tops, in a best-case scenario.

Don't be fooled by routers advertising themselves as 10Gbps. This is misleading marketing where the router manufacturer combines the maximum theoretical throughput from 2.4GHz, 5.0GHz and 6.0GHz WiFi and combines them all. There is no way for any WiFi client to aggregate throughput over different spectrums making this 10Gbps value completely meaningless and pointless.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

While Apple certainly could have done better with the transition over to USB-C, the USB standards body need to take an awful lot of responsibility for this mess.

The vast majority of people expect that, if a cable fits, it’s the right cable. I had a box full of USB-C cables yet I had no idea which supported USB 2.0 speeds and which supported USB 3.2 Gen 1 or beyond. I also had no idea of the charge levels they support.

I recently decided to trash the lot and buy a bunch of new cables that would work for any purpose. Something that would support USB 4.0 40Gbps and 240W charging. It turns out that those cables are pretty rare, pretty short and pretty expensive. Add to that the unreliability of purchasing cheap, Chinese cables which may not be what they’re advertised to be and you’ve got a problem.

I ended up purchasing a few certified USB 4.0 240W from Cable Matters.

I know that the USB-IF are currently rebranding. I would love to see the data rate and maximum charge rate printed on every cable. I believe that’s now starting to happen. I also believe retailers like Amazon should do more to highlight certifiable products. E.g. to provide a button linking to a particular product’s certification, ensuring that it’s genuine and meets the standards advertised.

Oops, Intel just released Thunderbolt 5 w 80 Gbps. Gonna need a new box full of cables soon

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I got the 240W cable in yesterday, it's thick. MagSafe 3 cable next to it for comparison.

View attachment 2261488

Genuinely curious. What is your use case for a 240W USB-C cable?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

It's two decades old. Apple released their first USB 2.0 products 20 years ago, in 2003.

Tim Cook has no shame.

23 years old, USB 2.0 was released in 2000. The USB 3.1 used in iPhone 15 Pro is a decade old, released in 2013.

I was definitely going to buy an iPhone 15 Pro. I am so disgusted by this and so many other deliberate limitations of the iPhone, that I am on strike. Definitely NOT buying one now. Premium price, average tech.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

So before the announcement, people were clamoring for faster data speeds on the Pro models, because well, the are used by Pros. Apple did that, and now people complain teh plebeian 15 models get non-Pro needed speeds?

Apple is going to differentiate the two lines as that is the best way to get people to buy the higher priced version.

I have a 2021 M1 Pro MBP. It has 40Gbps. 2023 iPhone 15 Pro has 10Gbps USB 3.1 released in 2013. One of those machines is pro, one isn't. Both have the pro price tag.

 

[Saturnine]

Oops, Intel just released Thunderbolt 5 w 80 Gbps. Gonna need a new box full of cables soon

True, true. But fortunately it’s going to be a while before I have any devices that make use of that kind of bandwidth!

 

[jlc1978]

I have a 2021 M1 Pro MBP. It has 40Gbps. 2023 iPhone 15 Pro has 10Gbps USB 3.1 released in 2013. One of those machines is pro, one isn't. Both have the pro price tag.

Yea, the M1 MBP doesn't have faster USB ports than the M1 MBA so I agree with you It isn't a pro machine.

 

[GizmoDVD]

For the dumb like me What's the point of 240w cables in the first place over a normal Apple USB-C cable? Is it worth replacing my existing OEM ones?

 

[GizmoDVD]

Honest question: how many of you are actively doing syncing via cable in 2023?

I have not plugged in my iPhone to anything in years. If it went portliness, I wouldn't even notice.

 

[dannys1]

But the new one is USB 2 as well?

Old one: Thin, USB 2, 100W
New one: Thick, USB 2, 60W

That's illogical to me. The old one has a benefit of 100W and I can travel and pack light. The new one trades this for being more robust. Is that the only benefit??

I think it's just the 240w one that is thick isn't it?

 

[dannys1]

Apple only just added USB-C to the iPhone now. It wasn’t even announced a full 48 hours ago. You okay there sparky??

USB-C has been mainstream since 2016 though, surely you already have a USB-C cable laying around??

 

[Unregistered 4U]

True, true. But fortunately it’s going to be a while before I have any devices that make use of that kind of bandwidth!

And, when those products come along, the cost of the cable will be the least of the purchaser’s cost worries.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think it's just the 240w one that is thick isn't it?

Correct

 

[writtenrequest]

That’s not how Apple uses “new” in the store. It’s “new” because it’s 1 meter. Previously they only sold longer versions.

I'm just passing on what was told to me in chat with Apple. Here's a screenshot.

 

[MrRom92]

Why are you only just coming round to getting a USB-C cable now??

Any other devices I have that would use a USB-C cable (and typically only include a USB-C-to-A cable) only use USB-C for charging purposes, so the issue of data transfer capabilities on a cable by cable basis has not come up for me until this point

 

[kooky]

Correct

So you're saying for 1m cable we now have..?
Old one: Thin, USB 2, 100W
New one: Thin, USB 2, 60W

WTF is the purpose of that?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So you're saying for 1m cable we now have..?
Old one: Thin, USB 2, 100W
New one: Thin, USB 2, 60W

WTF is the purpose of that?

No, the old one isn’t 100W, it’s 60W. It’s basically the same exact braided white cable, but now, since they make two braided white cables with different charging capability, they specify that when looking it up on the App. I’m guessing if they both did 60W, then they’d just define them by length.

 

[davidg4781]

The iPhone 15 Pro supports WiFi 6E. If you have a Mac that also supports 6E and spend a few hundred on a router that supports 6E it still won’t approach the 10Gbps that the USB port is (theoretically) capable of.

EDIT: So it turns out that there are some 6E routers that claim better than 10Gbps for a lot more money than a TB4 cable.

So I tried turning this on but iPhone doesn't connect after I save it.

I'll try again after the actual iOS 17 launches. I'm on public betas and they're kind of weird with updating iPhones.

 

[kooky]

No, the old one isn’t 100W, it’s 60W.

These guys are saying the old one is 100W and they tested it at 90W:

Unboxing of new Apple USB-C Charge Cable (1 m) | ChargerLAB

web.archive.org

"We use it to charge a custom built power bank with an Apple 87W USB-C charger. It measures at 20.24V at 4.44A, around 90.07W."

These guys are claiming it's 100W:

Apple MUF72AM/A 1.0 Meter (39") Genuine USB-C to... at MacSales.com

1.0 Meter (39") Apple MUF72AM/A Genuine USB-C to USB-C Charging Cable. Power, charge, sync, and transfer data between USB-C devices. *New, Bulk Packaged*

eshop.macsales.com

This review of the old cable:

Amazon.ca:Customer reviews: Apple USB-C to USB-C Charge Cable (1m)

Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Apple USB-C to USB-C Charge Cable (1m) at Amazon.com. Read honest and unbiased product reviews from our users.

www.amazon.ca

M.Cole 3 April 2020
"With this Apple USB-C Charge Cable (1 M) OS X System Report show 90W or 100W, depending on which charger I have plugged in. I have some off-brand USB-C cables that only report 60W with the same setup."

Where do you get 60W from, for the old cable?

 

[Abazigal]

Genuinely curious. What is your use case for a 240W USB-C cable?

The funny thing is that 240w usb-c chargers don't seem to exist either (think the most is 140w).

There are laptops that can apparently draw all the way up to 330w, so I guess it's a chicken and egg problem.

 

[dannys1]

Any other devices I have that would use a USB-C cable (and typically only include a USB-C-to-A cable) only use USB-C for charging purposes, so the issue of data transfer capabilities on a cable by cable basis has not come up for me until this point

I would have asked are you actually going to copy data from a phone to another device with a cable but as it appears you're still using USB-A in 2023 the answer to that is probably yes.

I haven't had a USB-A cable since 2016.

 

[MrRom92]

I would have asked are you actually going to copy data from a phone to another device with a cable but as it appears you're still using USB-A in 2023 the answer to that is probably yes.

I haven't had a USB-A cable since 2016.

Most new devices still include a USB-A cable of some kind so you must not be buying a ton of new electronics if you’ve gone that long without having a USB-A in your life! Even the PS5, a very modern “next gen” high tech gaming console, includes a USB-A to USB-C charging cable for the controller. Also, how do you plug in all the things you’ve already been using?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Where do you get 60W from, for the old cable?

I have a 4 port USB-C battery pack (Zendure) capable of using Power Delivery up to 100W out (and has a screen for detailing power usage).
I have an old braided cable bought before the announcement and a new braided cable bought after the announcement. Plus, an old, longer 100W non-braided cable. First, connecting the 100W cable between the battery pack and a 16 inch M1 MBP, the cable was able to deliver 90+ watts, confirming the battery pack’s capability and the power draw of the MBP. Then, I switched to the braided cable (after launch)… PD negotiated 60W and stayed there. Finally, I tried the braided cable bought before the launch, also 60W which is not surprising as someone else has posted the model numbers are the same between the two and, side by side, they are identical in length, thickness and there would be no way to tell the difference between the two.

However, having typed all that, there ARE two model numbers out there that specifically appear to be for Apple USB-C-to-USB-C charging cables.
The recent one, MQKJ3AM/A, which are woven, and the other, MUF72AM/A. From the information provided by your links, those MUF72AM/A cables were first released in 2018 and are not braided. My expectation is that anyone with a 1m braided cable purchased this year has bought a 60W cable even though, earlier this year, a wattage was not specifically defined.

 

[kooky]

I have a 4 port USB-C battery pack (Zendure) capable of using Power Delivery up to 100W out (and has a screen for detailing power usage).
I have an old braided cable bought before the announcement and a new braided cable bought after the announcement. Plus, an old, longer 100W non-braided cable. First, connecting the 100W cable between the battery pack and a 16 inch M1 MBP, the cable was able to deliver 90+ watts, confirming the battery pack’s capability and the power draw of the MBP. Then, I switched to the braided cable (after launch)… PD negotiated 60W and stayed there. Finally, I tried the braided cable bought before the launch, also 60W which is not surprising as someone else has posted the model numbers are the same between the two and, side by side, they are identical in length, thickness and there would be no way to tell the difference between the two.

However, having typed all that, there ARE two model numbers out there that specifically appear to be for Apple USB-C-to-USB-C charging cables.
The recent one, MQKJ3AM/A, which are woven, and the other, MUF72AM/A. From the information provided by your links, those MUF72AM/A cables were first released in 2018 and are not braided. My expectation is that anyone with a 1m braided cable purchased this year has bought a 60W cable even though, earlier this year, a wattage was not specifically defined.

I'm talking about the old one, non-braided, thin, MUF72AM/A. This goes to 100W. It's thin, light, 100W. They've replaced this with MQKJ3AM/A which is now thick/braided, heavier (?), 60W. The point is the new cable is a downgrade to most tech users that can look after a cable without breaking it. I'm trying to understand what I have missed, what is the upside to the new cable?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I'm talking about the old one, non-braided, thin, MUF72AM/A. This goes to 100W. It's thin, light, 100W. They've replaced this with MQKJ3AM/A which is now thick/braided, heavier (?), 60W. The point is the new cable is a downgrade to most tech users that can look after a cable without breaking it. I'm trying to understand what I have missed, what is the upside to the new cable?

Oh, no, the 60W braided isn’t thicker and heavier than the 100W non-braided (I used to have a 1m 100W but it frayed long ago). I do still have a longer version of the 100W cable (I think the only difference between the one I have and the 1m is the length). From what I’ve seen of the 240W it DOES look noticeably thicker than the 60W, but it’s also tasked with potentially carrying much more current than even the older 100W cable.

I think the old 100W was $19 too, so the new 60W for the same price is definitely a downgrade, but, it appears, only in the wattage. The actual cable is as thin and light as the old 100W. There’s not any upside unless the braided cable lasts longer. Which, for me, remains to be seen.