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Can we quit with the $250.00? It wasn't $250.00 it was £121.00! That's pounds and pence not dollars...

And damn straight an extended trial doesn't cover the £25/£30 (delete amount as appropriate) charge that people may end up facing.

Nice one Steve... It keeps getting better all the time!
 
No I think you are. If I can't use £121 of the funds in my bank account, then that's as equivalent to apple taking £121 and paying it back when they cancel the hold. I can't use the money.

Sorry to harp on details, it isn't that I'm saying this was right, fine, or otherwise dandy. But you have to get it right. It is not equivalent to Apple taking the money, because they didn't. This isn't what a hold is. If anything it is equivalent to your bank taking it, but even that characterization isn't really correct. The bank already has the money in your deposit account and they've invested it. The hold is like a virtual escrow.

Long ago I worked in the rental car business which is famous for putting holds like this in place for customers who have trouble otherwise can't qualify for a rental. In general, most customers didn't understand the concept at all. It is something everyone who has a credit card/debit card needs to understand though.
 
No one is "loaning" any money to anyone. Apple ran authorizations on the cards, NOT charges! I don't think you understand how this works. Although depending on the bank/provider, they may lower your *available* balance by the amount of the authorization, it is NOT a charge, and therefore should NOT create overage charges or cause anyone to go "in the red". If the prior account balance was lower than the authorized amount, then the authorization should just not go through. That's at least how I understand it.

Yes, but think the impact through. Let's say I've got £200 to last me to payday. I've got a direct debit for council tax coming out next week for £60, got to pay fares to work of £30 and need to do two weeks worth of food shopping at £50 each. All OK - just about scraping by.

Tell ya what, might treat myself to a MobileMe trial - if I like it, I'll pay for a year after payday. My little treat.

And then, all of a sudden, after buying my fares and week's shopping, I've got no available funds. The bank will refuse my direct debit (and charge me for it, as much as £39 in some cases) and I won't have any money for next weeks' food shopping. Sure, my running balance will never drop below zero, but as i have no available funds, I have no money.

That's the problem.
 
Really Apple...really? $250? I used to work in banking, and I can tell you for a fact that would mess up tons of accounts and they WOULD get charges if they spent only $5 and had $250 in their account. $39 at my old job, and if it was a check the person cashing would get charged a $25 returned check fee. Some people are so ignorant about banking practices. Just because it's wrong doesn't mean that banks don't get away with it every day!!

The MobileMe saga continues...
 
Yeah, what most people don't fully get is that, under the worst circumstances, Apple could've royally screwed you over.

Imagine you had enough in your bank account to cover a direct debit and an un-cleared cheque. If this pushed you into the red, then it's incredibly bad for you. VERY bad. Not only are you in the red (bank takes money from you) but you haven't honoured a direct debit (bank takes money from you) and you haven't honoured a cheque (bank takes money from you). This'll look like **** on any credit rating!

IMO completely unacceptable!
 
I was an existing .mac customer and received the email about the 30 day extension a few days ago....

...but my account expiry still says 32 days til it expires! According to the email I AM an eligible customer, so what is going on?

Has anyone in the UK seen their status change since the email???
 
I was an existing .mac customer and received the email about the 30 day extension a few days ago....

...but my account expiry still says 32 days til it expires! According to the email I AM an eligible customer, so what is going on?

Has anyone in the UK seen their status change since the email???

no.

but the email said it would happen in the next few weeks.
 
I do not like apple apologizing every other day. It`s not going to help them increase their brand value. Once in a while is good but not every week. It was a small error. They rectified it, that should be it. No real need for another 30 day extension. I know those who get it will be happy but no one would have buzzed if no such freebie was awarded. They pleased the one percent of their potential customers but for the rest of the potential buyers mobileme is sounding more and more like a mess with troubles showing up everyday.

That amount translates to roughly $240 U.S. Dollars.

You wouldn't be so casual about it if you were unable to use $240 of your monthly income for a few weeks now would you?

Many people use their credit cards to make all purchases, and then pay their cards at the end of the month.

That's how we do it. And, it gets us our airline miles for travel.

So, we make purchases using the airline miles credit card. And, when we get paid, we pay the full balance of the card. This of course means that our spending budget has all been sent to the card to pay off the purchases of the previous month.

So, if suddenly the spending allowance on our card is reduced, then we've lost spending power. Our money has been paid to the credit card company to provide the spending allowance. Apple steps in, and pulls $240 of our spending power away from us. And, we find that we are sitting around unable to make necessary purchases while we wait for Apple to give us our $240 back.

That sounds like a pretty big mess up to me. And, it is definitely worthy of an apology. And, by that, I mean more than just a 30 day extension to a service that has so far proven to be problematic.

If you mess with our credit cards, you take away spending power. You take gas money from our families, you take food money from our families, you take away buying power.

$240 in a monthly budget can be quite significant. Probably even more for most people than for myself.

I would demand a bit more than a freebie if Apple took away $240 from my families budget for any amount of time without my express permission.

Sure, for those who only use their cards to make purchases they cannot afford, or for those who do not frequently utilize their cards, this may not be an issue (because it would be cancelled and no interest would be incurred).

But, if you utilize your cards for your monthly budget, and pay that card every month. Then Apple just stole several days of access to your money. For whatever number of days, your family was without part of it's necessary operating and living budget.

You take away access to my money for any number of days, and you will be compensating me more than just a month of access to a service I don't need to survive.

Picture getting to the checkout counter at the local grocery store. You have $300 or $400 worth of groceries (not unusual for a small family). And, the clerk informs you that your card will not accept the total of your purchase. So, your family goes without restocking food while you wait for Apple to return access to your money.

That's not an unreal situation for many. Many credit cards have limits of $1000 or $2000. Some have limits of $5000. Some have much higher limits.

If your families monthly budget is $5000 for groceries, bills, gas, and misc. expenses (not unusual at all in my area), and suddenly you lose access to $240 of your available money, there is a problem.

Perhaps the family didn't even use a dedicated credit card. Perhaps they used a Visa Check card that pulls from their account (many people do this as an alternative to using credit cards).

Think about it. Say a modest home payment of $1200 to $1500 a month. $400 to feed yourself, your spouse, your kids, etc. (and that's eating lightly these days - in our area, minimum food is actually about $800 a month due to costs of shipping food to our area). $500 for the monthly payment to pay for the car you use to get to work (since we have absolutely no mass transit in my area). $425 (or $800 or more if both spouses work) a month just for gas to get to work (since we have no mass transit - and gas prices are high). Say $100 a month for automobile insurance so you can legally drive your car (or cars) to work. Averages of $100 a month for Electricity (we actually cannot pay less than $100 a month even if we turned off power to the house - we have a minimum monthly payment just to have the electricity available - we can pay more though if we go over the budgeted allowance). Then, about another $100 a month for most in our area to heat the house. Then say $50 a month just to have a telephone. Expenses for kids (diapers, clothing, activities, school costs, etc.) which can be hundreds of dollars. Due to high costs in our area, the average cost is more than $500 a month per child on things just to meet the kids needs (and that's actually very conservative - the local child welfare figures find that it costs more than $1000 a month to meet only the basic needs of a school age child in our area). Add medical supplies (depending on the family and insurance benefits perhaps $400 to $3000 a month) - I know many who endure more than $3000 a month in medical needs.

And, suddenly Apple comes in and takes $240 of money from you. $240 you did not plan for. $240 you didn't expect to be missing. $240 not in your budget for the month.

Sure, you can probably budget in $240 if you are making purchases like these from Apple. But, if you know that you have 3 months to try before you buy, then that $240 is not in this months budget.

You're standing at the checkout counter, and discovering that because of an invalid charge / hold on your card, you're family is $240 short on food money for this month.

I may not blink at $240. But, I can tell you that I am probably in the minority in my area at the moment.

The expenses listed above are typical of most in this state. And, those are on the low side. These are rates you would pay if you live in heavily populated areas. If you live outside of the densely populated areas, you could expect almost all of those rates to double.

And, if you don't have a great paying job (of which there are few in this state), then you'll notice $240 that you didn't plan to be missing from this months available cash flow.

I say Apple screwed up pretty big.
 
I was an existing .mac customer and received the email about the 30 day extension a few days ago....

...but my account expiry still says 32 days til it expires! According to the email I AM an eligible customer, so what is going on?

Has anyone in the UK seen their status change since the email???

On the email you received on Wednesday it says "Your extension will be reflected in your account settings within the next few weeks."

It has only been 3 days :p
 
It was a small error. They rectified it, that should be it. No real need for another 30 day extension.

$240 is hardly a "small error". The Apple Apologista Squad are out in force in defending their beloved Apple over this almighty Mobile Me balls up. :rolleyes:
 
My account sais I've got 85 days of trail left, started July 14.

But I never got any kind of email, not on my MobileMe email address and not on my GMail.
 
Can we quit with the $250.00? It wasn't $250.00 it was £121.00! That's pounds and pence not dollars...

And damn straight an extended trial doesn't cover the £25/£30 (delete amount as appropriate) charge that people may end up facing.

Nice one Steve... It keeps getting better all the time!

It is approximately $250.

The article specifically says: "preauthorizing charges up to 121 GBP"

That does convert to roughly $250 in American Dollars.

Just because their money is worth more than ours does not diminish the effective value of the money from being approximately $250 in our terms.

Now, to be exact, the actual value is $241.47 in U.S. Dollars.

But, for the purpose of discussions, $250 is a reasonable estimation.

Or, you could round it down to $240. But, for discussion purposes, the difference of $241.47 and $250 is irrelevant.


Source:
http://coinmill.com/GBP_USD.html#GBP=121

Or, use the unit converter in your dashboard
 
I Will Never Use Mobile Me. Ever!!!!!!!

(they lost all of the 'Apple reliability' factor)


Yeah, I hate it when companies are generous to their customers when they make mistakes. :rolleyes:

So they messed up. *GASP*!!! Yes, Apple messed up. It's not like they're keeping the money.

And flyinmac, I see what you're trying to say, but I think you being a bit sensationalist about this. Yes, $240 is a good amount. But I mean honestly how many people actually use(d) .Mac or MobileMe? Yes, I can see how all these families have starved and how kids will not be able to goto college now, all because Apple accidentally took out $240 one time, which was quickly fixed.

Stop acting like the sky is falling. If you're living off credit cards in the first place, you've got bigger things to worry about and shouldn't be spending money on things like MobileMe.
 
If it continues like that, soon we will have a whole year as a trial period :D

I am also worried about Apple trying to be number one when MobileMe is having issues, when the servers crashed at the launch of iPhone 3G, etc...
 
Yeah, I hate it when companies are generous to their customers when they make mistakes. :rolleyes:

So they messed up. *GASP*!!! Yes, Apple messed up. It's not like they're keeping the money.

It's also not like they are offering compensation that is of significant expense to them. It's not anything more than you could get for free by setting up another trial account later.

And, it's not anything that causes them any great penalty. They chose a remedy that would impact their financials quite minimally.

We were migrated from .Mac to MobileMe. And, haven't been significantly affected by the migration issues. But, I mentioned the issues and the resolution in passing to my wife (just as a this is what happened today), and she said "that's it... That's all they're doing?". Didn't affect us in the slightest. But, even so, she was hardly impressed (and she doesn't really even care). So, imagine what this might look like to someone who was actually affected and who actually cared. I'm sure they'd be saying "that's all you're going to do?".
 
Stop acting like the sky is falling. If you're living off credit cards in the first place, you've got bigger things to worry about and shouldn't be spending money on things like MobileMe.

what about those who gave a debit card number?
 
So is this 30-day extension for European customers only I assume?

it's for anyone who's card had the authorization placed against it. I got the same mail too and I'm in Singapore, so it's not just europe.
 
And flyinmac, I see what you're trying to say, but I think you being a bit sensationalist about this. Yes, $240 is a good amount. But I mean honestly how many people actually use(d) .Mac or MobileMe?

I would say at least enough people that Apple feels it is a worthwhile business to be in. So, that's probably quite a few. More than enough. And, likely multiple thousands if not millions.

Less than that, and Apple wouldn't even bother with it. Why offer a service to a few hundred people?


Yes, I can see how all these families have starved and how kids will not be able to goto college now, all because Apple accidentally took out $240 one time, which was quickly fixed.


Well, I'm not saying that they were denied college or starved indefinitely. I am saying that if you are counting on available money, and that money (which is yours and should be available) us suddenly gone (and you didn't spend it), then it could cause major issues for the duration that it takes to get the money freed up. And, potentially longer if it causes other payments to over-draft your account.

And, yes, it can cause an over-draft. We've had that happen before when other companies processed unauthorized charges against our bank account (and credit card companies have penalties as well). So, yes, I have paid over-draft charges to my bank, paid NSF and collection fees to other entities, and so on when a company has reserved money for later charging (and it was not authorized to do so).

And, of course, it affects your credit rating (which can prevent you from obtaining future purchases which require excellent credit). Even when you have the cash, large purchases (such as land and houses are usually done through credit for other financial benefits - particularly in investment situations).

So, that little unauthorized reserve hold can cause quite a situation for families who don't have an unauthorized charge budgeted in their monthly budget.

Many people will sign up for trials of things to evaluate whether or not they are worth purchasing. And, you decide after the trial whether to pay. And, it is at that point that you budget for it or decide you can't budget for it (though you might not even try if you know you won't be able to budget for it in 3 months).

Getting hit with an unexpected reserve does not go unnoticed. We've been hit with reserves as low as $40 (at say times when we didn't enjoy the benefits we have now) and had it cause a mess that affected us for a long time.

It's not just the short term loss of the ability to spend the money. That causes an immediate and probably quite uncomfortable situation that will pass.

But, it can create situations with those who are authorized to draw on your account when you have to explain why their payment was denied. When you have to pay their penalties. And, when they increase your future fees because they now believe you to be a risk.

And, you have to pay your bank additional fees that were not in your budget (further complicating your situation).

And, you have to pay the companies who were denied payment their processing and collection fees (further complicating things).

And, then you have a ding on your credit rating because you had an overdraft.

With our credit card company, if we go $40 over our monthly limit, we'll get dinged on our actual credit rating / score that every institution uses.

With our bank, it could do the same thing if we go a few dollars beyond our available balance.

So, yes, that little temporary hold on your money can have much longer term affects on your financial situation.

Think about when you buy your next house, and they see you got dinged on your credit a bit. So, now your interest rate is a little higher than you'd have paid if that little mark wasn't there.

Now, that will cost you considerably over time.

These holds on accounts do remove available money (as in it is held and unavailable). And, as such, it does cause overdrafts and "bouncing" of payments.

It is not like the bank will continue to clear checks and draft charges while the money is being held. They will only pay drafts that fall into your available money. They will not pay drafts that come into your reserved money (that money is held for the entity that reserved it).

It can mess you up much more than you would think on the surface. I know first hand from less wealthy times in my life when other companies have made similar unauthorized reservations.



Stop acting like the sky is falling. If you're living off credit cards in the first place, you've got bigger things to worry about and shouldn't be spending money on things like MobileMe.


You don't have to rely on credit cards for it to affect you.

Using a credit card to draw on for your monthly balance and paying it off every month is no different than if you used your personal checking account and a Visa Check card. Except that you get airline miles using the credit card.

With either method, $240 suddenly disappearing from your monthly (or available) budget without you knowing it was gone could severely mess things up.
 
There are a couple of issues here. The first is that whilst pre-authorisation is common for things such as this, Apple should definitely not have done this without clearly telling people what they were doing.
As it appears to have been a mistake to pre-authorise so much, I guess they can be forgiven for not telling people (as it wasn't a "planned" pre-auth), but actually doing it is pretty bad.
The second issue is how they deal with the resulting fall out. Making a public apology and giving a free month is a decent start and for the vast majority of people it should be sufficient as they won't actually have suffered much.
However, if anyone has actually lost out financially through this pre-auth causing other payments to be defaulted, bank charges to be applied, etc then it's a different matter.
You could argue that if people had that little money in their account that £120 would do this then they shouldn't have been taking out a subscription but that doesn't alter the fact that Apple locked money out of an account / cc that they didn't disclose and if anyone has suffered from it, Apple should compensate them for their loss.
I would hope that if anyone who has suffered in this way contacts Apple they will quickly compensate them, but I'm not sure they will...
 
But I mean honestly how many people actually use(d) .Mac or MobileMe?

I would say at least enough people that Apple feels it is a worthwhile business to be in. So, that's probably quite a few. More than enough. And, likely multiple thousands if not millions.


Acording to David Pogue: "Over the years, two million people signed up for .Mac, according to Apple, even though it was a sort of motley, unfocused service."

What we don't know is the number of new trialees who signed up in anticipation of the new iPhone and have been affected. But it was obviously enough to warrant another apology and another extension.
 
what about those who gave a debit card number?

Debit cards work the same way. It shows as a pending charge that never goes through and is eventually returned to your available balance. You don't get charged a fee for being in the red if it's only pending, only when it goes through.

If the charge puts your available balance in the red, and your gas bill tries to go through, it still clears, only making your available balance further into the negative, but so long as your actual balance never drops below $0 you are fine.

However all debit and credit transaction you try and make after that will fail, because your available balance appears to be below $0.
 
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