Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller on NFC, Wireless Charging and the Lightning Connector

[k995]

I recall reading that these companies can readily have apps designed to enable payment via passbook. Given the popularity of iPhone, that any iphone which upgrades to IOS6 will have passbook, and the demographic of iphone users suggests they are more willing to spend, this means you basically will have an entire army of NFC-enabled apple smartphones ready to tap on Sep19.

It makes sense. Many more people are going to upgrade to IOS6 than recontract to Iphone5, and Apple saves money by not having to install NFC chips in their phones. Business have to choose between supporting passbook or NFC, and if they can choose only one, I am betting they will opt for Apple (for reasons stated above). So it seems Apple wants to kickstart their own proprietary NFC system that works only on their IOS system.

Imagine eating at a restaurant which allows you to pay via your iphone but not any other android phone. It's sneaky, it's clever, it borders on dirty-handedness, it's uniquely Apple.

Isnt it for coupons and prepayed tickets? So then first you need to pay before going on restaurant and put it in pasbook . How would that work for a restaurant (correct me if I am wrong)

Seems like a very big hassle compared to paying with NFC at the restaurant by just taking out the smart phone.

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For a Samsung Galaxy, adding wireless charging costs you $90. I wouldn't want to pay $90 for wireless charging, nowhere near it.

But you are paying 600+ for a phone that barely does anything better then phones costing half as much.

The USB connector is usually the USB connector on my MBP. So you think instead of plugging the phone into the Mac, I should plug the mat into the Mac, then lay the mat somewhere, then put the phone on it? What do you think is less work? ...

You dont represent the vast mayority of people, I would think they have a charger and cable lying around somewhere (i do)

Doesnt matter, my response was to the people that said USB is easier because you can use it in more places like airplanes.

 

[Irishman]

Exactly on NFC is were Schiller goes off the rails - there are plenty of places where NFC would be a good option: taxies, busses, subways, vending machines, etc. Those are places were passbook won't do jack for You.

But kudos to Apple marketing for making a non-function look like something revolutionary - but passbook won't be a real "killer" feature before it get's more enhancements like NFC.

Apple releases features when they're ready. Why would they hold up an annual clockwork phone release because NFC needed more work to be compelling?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

For example, I use the tube every day for work. Now, imagine they implemented an NFC system at the turnstiles so I can use my phone to tap in. Not only would that mean I'd have to fumble about for my phone and risk dropping it as people push through but it would give pick-pockets a great chance to nab it from me. While I'm passing through going IN the thief heading out at the gate directly next to mine can just reach over and swipe my phone. Because there are people behind me pushing to get in after me I'd be completely unable to give chase! All that risk for the sake of not carrying around a little plastic travel card? Not sure it works for me. Worse still, if I forgot to charge my handset I'd be unable to get to work!

If one believes these kinds of arguments, they should also apply to just about every other function built into the iPhone. Why build in a camera? Why build in maps/gps when one could carry a little paper map? Why build in iPod functionality when one could carry a separate, cheap music player? Why build in email when a piece of paper + pencil + stamp could cover that as well (and keep our phone securely away from pickpockets & thieves)? Etc.

If we're worried about thieves, why build an expensive phone portion when we could carry a separate, dirt cheap phone? If we're worried about pickpockets, wouldn't they also be able to pick out pockets for credit cards/wallets? Wouldn't they prefer picking our pockets for cash instead of a used iPhone? If I have to "fumble about for my phone" to pay for a transaction would I not have to fumble about for my wallet to make a transaction with a credit card? If they steal my wallet/credit cards, wouldn't I be just as unable to give chase? If they steal my wallet/credit cards, wouldn't I be just as unable to get to work?

If the Tube implemented an NFC system, you wouldn't be forced to use it. You could still use credit cards & paper tickets where you wanted to use them. If you were using your phone as you approached those turnstiles, you could use it to flow right on through. It would just be an added convenience if you wanted to use NFC. And if they also implemented wireless charging on a broad scale (much like wifi becomes increasingly available), as you ride the train... or eat at a restaurant... or sit at a hotel or in a meeting, etc... you can charge your iDevice without having to "fumble about with a cable and power brick" and then further "fumble about trying to locate an available socket".

Plus, with thieves & pickpockets all about, it sounds like it would be quite unsafe to have your phone plugged in anywhere where it could not still be lodged deep within a zippered pocket.

 

[Leonard1818]

So, why not USB 3?

He said "this is the connector for many years to come"

... To me that means he's referring to one end of the cable... Didnt say it's not going to, at some point be usb3.

 

[Irishman]

Because the fact that apple didn't even bother to update the camera from the 4s shows how either lazy they become, or cost oriented they are.

Update what was, by all reviews I've seen, already the best smart phone camera available? The new features this time were on the software side, namely stills from video, and panorama.

We're already getting to the point where more megapixels only matter if you're making poster-size prints. It's not like photography professsionals are using their phone cameras for their work, shooting in RAW and needing to take 18 MP+ images so they can crop hi-res sections of their images that end up still being 8 MP when cropped. If they were, you might have a point.

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My phone would never charge with this. It's either in my pocket or in my office or house when I'm not talking on it. It's never sitting in the sun...

This.

 

[podlasek]

Can't Resist:

I see a little silhouetto of a man
Scaramouch, scaramouch will you do the fandango
Thunderbolt and lightning - very very frightening me
Gallileo, Gallileo,
Gallileo, Gallileo,
Gallileo Figaro - Magnifico

 

[Gasu E.]

You certainly would, especially if you were syncing a large media collection or importing photos.

How often would you do that? It seems to me you would see mainly a one-time benefit. I would not trade off significant weight or power consumption for that.

 

[Zunjine]

If one believes these kinds of arguments, they should also apply to just about every other function built into the iPhone. Why build in a camera? Why build in maps/gps when one could carry a little paper map? Why build in iPod functionality when one could carry a separate, cheap music player? Why build in email when a piece of paper + pencil + stamp could cover that as well (and keep our phone securely away from pickpockets & thieves)? Etc.

If we're worried about thieves, why build an expensive phone portion when we could carry a separate, dirt cheap phone? If we're worried about pickpockets, wouldn't they also be able to pick out pockets for credit cards/wallets? Wouldn't they prefer picking our pockets for cash instead of a used iPhone? If I have to "fumble about for my phone" to pay for a transaction would I not have to fumble about for my wallet to make a transaction with a credit card? If they steal my wallet/credit cards, wouldn't I be just as unable to give chase? If they steal my wallet/credit cards, wouldn't I be just as unable to get to work?

If the Tube implemented an NFC system, you wouldn't be forced to use it. You could still use credit cards & paper tickets where you wanted to use them. If you were using your phone as you approached those turnstiles, you could use it to flow right on through. It would just be an added convenience if you wanted to use NFC. And if they also implemented wireless charging on a broad scale (much like wifi becomes increasingly available), as you ride the train... or eat at a restaurant... or sit at a hotel or in a meeting, etc... you can charge your iDevice without having to "fumble about with a cable and power brick" and then further "fumble about trying to locate an available socket".

Plus, with thieves & pickpockets all about, it sounds like it would be quite unsafe to have your phone plugged in anywhere where it could not still be lodged deep within a zippered pocket.

I don't mean to be rude but this is utter nonsense.

There are some items which, when integrated, DO allow you greater levels of convenience. Maps, emails, music etc. Each one of these items replaces something else or adds functionality by integrating them - an email sent to my phone with an address allows me to tap that address to automatically locate it on a map, for example. NFC for payments, on the other hand, does not yet allow me to not carry other forms of payment with me so it does not add any appreciable convenience. If you needed me to point that out to you I'd be very concerned.

I don't carry cash often because I can use my debit or credit card pretty much anywhere - unlike NFC. And, no, pickpockets would not prefer to pilfer cash unless you're in the habit of carrying £300 in cash on you at any given time. Mobile phones are expensive devices and it is sensible to avoid using them in a way which would benefit potential thieves. For example, I tend to not like to use my phone if I'm walking alone at night. I also prefer not to leave it on charge in a place that's not secure. This is all fairly reasonable, is it not? As for NFC on the tube, the reason the Oyster Card system used by London Underground uses RFID and not NFC is because NFC is far slower. I hope they don't implement it because it would make the queues at the turnstiles slower to get passed. Furthermore, if my phone battery died (say I left an app running or just used it more than usual) and my travel card was on there, how would I get home? How convenient is that, really?

Sure, you have to fumble about with your plastic card to use that but if you drop said plastic card while fumbling, it doesn't break. Replacing one is far easier and cheaper than replacing a stolen phone too. There are many reasons why cheap, easy to replace plastic cards are a preferable option, not least because until NFC is universally accepted you'd need to keep them on you anyway.

Your entire post is riddled with logical errors and selective thinking. I do wish you'd take a little more time before posting - there's no need to add more meaningless noise to the chatter here.

 

[JupiterDoc]

NFC is awesome, I don't care what the haterz say

I can wait until October 2013 for iPhone 6 with NFC & Gigabit WiFi. Apple didn't include them now for important reasons that make iPhone 5 the best compromise for today.

 

[Gasu E.]

Seriously take your coins and pay, same process since years

Seriously? I don't use cash; my wife doesn't use cash; my two adult children don't use cash. We use credit or debit cards, which are much more convenient, and allow us to manage our money better. I do carry a few dollars around for increasingly rare situations, but I hate having coins in my pocket-- little pieces of junk to deal with that create troublesomeness beyond their face value.

 

[Pressure]

I thought the EU passed legislation saying that all manufacturers should use the same microUSB standard. Not sure how Apple got an exemption to this?

Easy, it's not an mandatory standard. It's all optional.

 

[APlotdevice]

Because the fact that apple didn't even bother to update the camera from the 4s shows how either lazy they become, or cost oriented they are.

They significantly reduced the size of the camera module without sacrificing quality. If you knew anything about how cameras work you would know that is not an easy task. They also upgraded the image signal processor; a critical component in digital photography.

It's not all about megapixels.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

You are confusing two market shares. There is the percentage of iPhones among smart phones. And then there is the percentage of iPhone users among those who are willing to pay money for your gadget. That's the percentage that counts.

Still goes back to a huge chunk of the market being cut off by going Apple only.

 

[MrShoehorn]

Yeh cus Apple know whats best for their customers?

They do know what's best for their customers. That's why they sell millions of iPhones a quarter. They make their devices do what 98% of people need their iPhone to do, and they make them do it well.

Yes, they lack certain features, no NFC, no wireless charging. May I ask when was the last time you saw a place you could actually use NFC? I think the powermat charging stations are awesome, but you still have to lay your phone down a certian way.

People will always hate Apple and people will always hate Android.

 

[notabadname]

I agree

I think wireless charging is the biggest waste. Takes longer and you need to add weight to the devices that use it. And travelers have to take another contraption to plug in at their hotel. Apple will again have one cable that fits all devices.

And the old connector is out of date. I am sure the new on is carefully designed to be future proof. And I really like that it is reversible.

 

[pandamonia]

They do know what's best for their customers. That's why they sell millions of iPhones a quarter. They make their devices do what 98% of people need their iPhone to do, and they make them do it well.

Yes, they lack certain features, no NFC, no wireless charging. May I ask when was the last time you saw a place you could actually use NFC? I think the powermat charging stations are awesome, but you still have to lay your phone down a certian way.

People will always hate Apple and people will always hate Android.

Really? I have needed to take my battery out of my phone since its ran out and im no where near a charger or power point. My 4S would last about 3/4 of a days moderate use and id be stuck with no phone.

Now i just have 2 batteries and i can use my phone like it was meant to be used and not worry about it being flat or having chargers near by in case it runs dry.

But yeh Apple knows best.

 

[podlasek]

Last experience in NYC as tourist:try to ride a bus without coins: no luck. Bills ? No way and no change on a Sunday morning. Only heavy quarter and dollar coins ...

NFC (prepaid) is much more user friendly.

What People seem to ignore is that NFC isn't pervasive within the marketplace for a couple of reasons.

The first reason is that it costs A LOT of money for retailers to implement. it is an incremental cost of millions of dollars even for small specialty chains, equate higher cost with every pin pad/swipe device.

The second reason is people aren't asking for it, this is the chicken and egg syndrome for all points of service/purchase there has to be a demand in order to add equipment and additional costs. The demand isn't there, just the discussion. Where you are seeing it, that company went through an equipment refresh for some other reason (most likely compliance) and decided to add it.

Usually you will see newer tech in higher end stores first, unless there is a cost reduction of some sort. but look at the specialty stores (the apple retail stores as an example) where they removed the cash-wrap (read cash register) and allowed handheld devices (iPods) to process transactions. they do that with a sled or other attachment in order to accept the swipe. Now with NFC how would you do that? what are the power requirements on a handheld device, what are the security implications?

I personally would like NFC, but there are some other ideas out there with dynamic cards (cards that dynamically switch information based on user selection) that work everywhere today.

Whats going to win only time will tell.

 

[Apple Key]

Wireless charging is pointless until we have cordless charging that can be done at a distance from the charge station. Or all furniture can be updated to have the surface allow wireless charging, but that would take many many years to happen and certainly wouldn't be worth the wait.

Can someone list some benefits to NFC?

 

[AdonisSMU]

I still have yet to hear a single reason why I should need NFC. I think they should just give cashiers wireless scanners and skip NFC altogether.

 

[samcraig]

Your entire post is riddled with logical errors and selective thinking. I do wish you'd take a little more time before posting - there's no need to add more meaningless noise to the chatter here.

As is yours quite bluntly.

It would be an option. And given that the tubes already use RFID, I doubt THEY would change the turnstiles to something slower. What they MIGHT do is offer NFC payments to BUY a card.

And just because you MIGHT use your phone to commute doesn't mean that your Oyster Card still wouldn't be an option or contain the information on your balance. So you leave your phone at home or it's dead - you still have the card in your pocket.

It's about options and choices.

The point the OP was making to you is simply that if someone wants to take something of yours - they're going to take it. Phone, camera, GPS, oystercard that is half out of your pocket, wallet or whatever.

AND - there's one more thing to always remember. It's a phone. It's replaceable. Expensive? Sure. But replaceable.

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I still have yet to hear a single reason why I should need NFC. I think they should just give cashiers wireless scanners and skip NFC altogether.

There's a difference between need and want. And smart phones are more about "wants."

You don't NEED Siri - but it can be useful

You don't NEED FaceTime - but it can be useful

You don't NEED a faster processor but it sure makes the phone nicer to use

You don't NEED more storage - but it sure is nice

You don't NEED color options - but it's nice to have

etc...

 

[Winni]

Kind of agree about the wireless charging, but would have liked to see apple make NFC work well, so well that we do need it.

Nokia demonstrated that you can have both without compromise - the new Lumias can charge wireless AND via USB. In other words, Phil only tried to come up with a lame excuse because it did not occur to them to simply give their customers both options.

NFC: Apple is not offering an alternative while other big players are driving forces behind NFC. Sooner or later, Apple will have to include it if they don't want to be left behind.

 

[Asmodan]

I love and own iphones, but the funny thing will be when the 5s includes these features that we were told weren't needed and everyone will act like Apple invented them.

 

[erzhik]

So many people drinking Apple's koolaid. When Apple said no to larger screens, all of you agreed how larger screens were useless, and now you are all praising Apple for going 4".
Now Apple says nfc and wireless charging is useless, and you again repeat what they are telling you.

But for the matter of fact, wireless charging is the future, like it or not. I'd rather have world standard wireless charging than another stupid proprietary connector that only Apple uses and a $30 adapter.

What would you rather do in the airport or a coffee shop? Look around for a wall outlet somewhere in the corner and then sit on the floor and drink your coffee? Or place your phone on a table that already has wireless charging plate built in? (Yes, so far only two places will install wireless charging plates, but the point is that it will spread) and then when it does spread, Apple will have it in iPhone 5S and you again will praise the fact that Apple installed wireless charging.

Hands down, 920 wins this round in terms of specs and future proofing the device.

The problem is that most people will buy the iPhone 5 for the next 2 years and in a year or so iPhone 5 will once again be outdated.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Your entire post is riddled with logical errors and selective thinking.

But the post that I replied to is not?

That is what I was doing, illustrating the logical errors of the post I referenced by using the same kind of "logic errors" to make points about things that are included in an iPhone. However, you choose to find fault with my points but did not write a similar post for the guy's comments on which I was commenting, paraphrasing, etc? Difference: my version of his comments leaned against the way that Apple moved; his post supported Apple's decision to leave these features out. So of course, my post was worth your time to find such fault with my "illogic" and "nonsense" but his was fine?

Here's another way to go though: all of those convinced that NFC and/or wireless charging "is stupid", "makes no sense", etc now should feel exactly the same way when Apple adds those kinds of features in the future. In other words, if Apple is so right to leave them out now, Apple should be wrong to add them in not too far down the road... just like Apple was so right to leave out the isight camera from that first iPad or just like Apple was so right to not embrace 1080p for years when just about everyone else and everything else was there, etc.

Of course that won't happen. As soon as Apple endorses something that even they previously said "doesn’t make sense" just about all these "whatever Apple says" cheerleaders will be quick to flip right with them. Posts right on this site show a huge amount of railing against an iSight camera making any sense in an iPad until iPad 2 when it made perfect sense and "I'm upgrading for Facetime", etc. Similarly, 1080p made no sense at all until TV3 and then it made perfect sense. Even within the last few weeks of rumors about this iPhone, the "crowd" here seemed to find great fault with the looks, lengthening without widening, 2-tone back, and "too many similarities" to the iPhone 4s; now that it's here, some of those very same people are gushing and ready to upgrade (those with any sense of individual self are at least using phrases like "it's kind of grown on me" and similar). Some of the very same players passionately arguing against an advancement before Apple takes the step quickly flip to arguing passionately for it when Apple flip flops.

And here we are again- a thread in which various people are posting every logical and illogical reason against NFC and wireless charging. Will they be just as passionately opposed when Apple does include those features in 5s or 6? For example, the guy who didn't want NFC for fear of thieves stealing it as he used it at the turnstiles instead of a paper ticket is probably not going to upgrade to the 5s or 6 because it should be just as at risk of those thieves then as it is now, right? Or the guys arguing against it because it's not yet everywhere... or standardized on a global scale (but apparently there's no issue with LTE which is not yet everywhere or standardized on a global scale) will rail against Apple in the future when they put their own proprietary spin on NFC and maybe wireless charging so they can sell licensing and accessories only available from Apple?

That's what's so funny in threads like this. NFC or wireless makes no sense or "is stupid" because it's not everywhere but a brand new docking port that absolutely no one can currently hook to anything makes perfect sense... as does building in LTE which only exists in relatively few parts of the world. Paper tickets make sense instead of NFC to protect against my iPhone getting stolen but paper maps make no sense against built-in Emaps because apparently thieves only make their moves at the turnstiles?

 

[ChristianVirtual]

The first reason is that it costs A LOT of money for retailers to implement. it is an incremental cost of millions of dollars even for small specialty chains, equate higher cost with every pin pad/swipe device.

The second reason is people aren't asking for it, this is the chicken and egg syndrome for all points of service/purchase there has to be a demand in order to add equipment and additional costs. The demand isn't there, just the discussion. Where you are seeing it, that company went through an equipment refresh for some other reason (most likely compliance) and decided to add it.

It can't be that expensive, nearly every taxi in Japan has a reader, every bus, nearly every train station, most vending machines, MacD, Starbucks, convenient stores; literally millions of reader.
Agree with the chicken/ egg situation. If there is no demand companies will not move. BUT: Apple is often a demand-creator. iPod, iPhone, iPad, ... Many other stuff. There was not (that big) demand before Apple took over initiatives.

If NFC would be included the shops would follow and convenience spread.
But I understand that we missed the chance this time. It also doesn't really matter; I will just continue using my little card and "beep" me into the bus and train and enjoy the easiness of this payment method.