True, they usually do take that stance, but hopefully in the long run th better technology will prevail. Apple took that stance against bluray and BR still prevailed. Same with FireWire vs USB. Apple does have lots of influence but they aren't the end all be all. We'll see how this all turns out.
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Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller on NFC, Wireless Charging and the Lightning Connector
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True, they usually do take that stance, but hopefully in the long run th better technology will prevail. Apple took that stance against bluray and BR still prevailed. Same with FireWire vs USB. Apple does have lots of influence but they aren't the end all be all. We'll see how this all turns out.
You can charge it with the cord and have inductive charging. Like on the Lumia 920. Good thing about inductive charging is that it won't wear out your phone port just for charging, it's one of the statistically high point of failures for damage/wear.
Anything that makes every day mundane tasks such as charging my devices easier is not gimmicky. Bring on the day I can walk in my home from work, throw my phone on the coffee table and see it start charging.
Having to bend over, fumble with cables and then get back up is a daily, often bi-daily problem. A trivial one of course, but it's one that can be solved.
I have seen NFC in what I believe what was called Mobile Paypass for over a decade now. I don't see it all over the place despite the promise, first mover advantage, and deployment before security was a major issue.
It seems BT 4.0 is the new way forward with stronger security and slightly longer range.
Yes I saw the ads on TV promoting NFC in a phone context too. Still didn't happen more than 3 years later.
The sales pitch fell on deaf ears.
Rocketman
It seems BT 4.0 is the new way forward with stronger security and slightly longer range.
Yes I saw the ads on TV promoting NFC in a phone context too. Still didn't happen more than 3 years later.
The sales pitch fell on deaf ears.
Rocketman
This will mark the first time I will not get a new iPhone. I truly thought there would be something worth my while, but Apple (again) has chosen a "safe" route with their device updates. I used to defend Apple to people when new iPhone's were released with less than stellar technology, claiming "Apple needs to ensure it works well before releasing 'new tech'." Well, NFC and other "tech" Apple decided on not utilizing has me disappointed. Surely this "new tech" (which has been around for quite a long time) will emerge in the next iPhone, mostly to sell more devices.
Apple used to make products that sold well with less concern about profit as the devices sold themselves, profit followed. Now profit is dictating hardware. This will surely bite them in the apple.
Apple used to make products that sold well with less concern about profit as the devices sold themselves, profit followed. Now profit is dictating hardware. This will surely bite them in the apple.
Well, not according to Apples' chart. But if Iceland will have it then congrats to you. Sweden will not.
Wireless Charging
Reduces clutter, is a cool feature for hotel lobbies, cafes etc., and if built-in means you always have the right charger regardless of source (mains, battery, car, plane, foreign power plug). Of course cafes could already just supply powered USB sockets and lend cables to forgetful customers...
For similar reasons, I've moved over to USB to X for all my devices - means I only have to carry one mains charger or my laptop (or use my car) and 2-3 cables (30-pin, mini-USB, micro-USB).
Reduces clutter, is a cool feature for hotel lobbies, cafes etc., and if built-in means you always have the right charger regardless of source (mains, battery, car, plane, foreign power plug). Of course cafes could already just supply powered USB sockets and lend cables to forgetful customers...
For similar reasons, I've moved over to USB to X for all my devices - means I only have to carry one mains charger or my laptop (or use my car) and 2-3 cables (30-pin, mini-USB, micro-USB).
Doesn't even make sense. All phones come with a way to charge. The discussion is about inclusion of an additional way that has little practical use for most people. An additional way that adds weight to the phone and need for an additional periphery (a charging mat with its own power adaptor/supply).
Apple didn't make LTE, it is a communications technology that a communications device like the iPhone eventually had to adopt. A phone needs connectivity to be functional. It does not need wireless charging.
So, are you saying that you've bought every previous iPhone model because you've the generational changes compelling? And that stretch of upgrading every year ends for you with the iPhone 5 because it's not innovative enough??
Is that right?
The Governments is a monopoly, we have no choice short of revolution and must accept their crappy products, for Apple its a choice, just like for any company or drug dealer to use your example. We have a choice and if they have a good product we buy it, so large cash reserves for an organization that sells a product you don't have to buy does indicate, they have taken the time to research and make a product that appeals to their customers.
BLE isn't supposed to be used this way. Sorry.
Its range is too far; its power/logic requirements significantly higher.
It'd be restricted to two devices that both have their own power sources and much more complex software and CPUs. Deploying the retail station with stuff like this just wouldn't be a reasonable plan.
Just curious, have you used Google Wallet? Or at least seen watched the Google Wallet videos?
Here's a link:
http://www.google.com/wallet/why/security.html
Because it looks to me that it also requires opening an app, manual action (PIN entry), and then tapping on the console.
I can't try it myself as I have an NFC phone but Google doesn't want to support all Nexus devices. But I'd expect that Google Wallet's security page is a decent representation of the user experience?
I would expect that kind of process for something that is going to access my money. Using a PIN along with a secure element in the phone reduces the risk of fraud. Doesn't eliminate it, but does reduce the chance.
When it comes to other NFC functions, no action is required other than touching the device to the the NFC tag/reader.
NFC also uses a lot less power than BT... even BLE uses more power than NFC.
Sharing pics over Android Beam (NFC) for example, only requires the two phones to touch each other. The sender then simply taps the pic to transfer it.
No pairing is required, no PIN codes... just a simple tap.
The NFC antenna is a thin sheet of copper typically integrated into the casing or the battery itself. The thickness increase is measured in microns.
Power consumption is less than that of a LED. NFC is extremely low power, which is why it has a range measured in millimeters and not feet like BT.
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Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
do you know the definition of "would"? It means that doing action A creates result B. It's not a way of saying "it might happen"
Sure I used "could" once, because I haven't done an engineering analysis of adding NFC into the current design, but I am nearly certain that it would result in either a) thicker or b) sacrifice something else. Apple just didn't sit there and say "Ok so the NFC chip fits and works with out design... should we add it? Nahhh....."
The problem with some people in this thread (not saying you) is that they think NFC is for payments only. I would absolutely expect that something you want to make sure/confirm would have security measures in place to avoid accidental charges.
As stated by someone else before me in this thread (and I also listed several NFC type applications) - NFC is and can do a lot more than payments.
Oh, I don't disagree that NFC can be used for many many many more things outside of payments. Afterall, I do have an NFC capable phone. And I'm a developer.
But as an owner of a NFC capable phone, I fail to find compelling uses at the moment because of three main problems:
1) Lack of deployment (not enough NFC devices to interact with)
2) Lack of higher level protocol standardization (When two NFC devices meet, nobody has a solution as to what should happen.
3) Lack of feature support (Did anybody here know that Google doesn't have a card emulation API for Android and instead is pushing Android Beam instead of letting you, well, use the most compatible technique for NFC integration?)
Here's the thing, the common user here on the forums think of technology on such a high and broad level that they assume everything's easy to do as long as it supports feature xyz.
But it's not so clear cut like that.
We've seen it before. Who here had a Motorola v710 on Verizon. Remember the bluetooth class action lawsuit? Apparently people thought that anything with Bluetooth should be able to do OBEX. It is not true. But people just assume that.
Likewise, people think that having a USB port on an iPad would suddenly make all sorts of cool accessories work with it because "hey, it support USB!" No.
Or how about MicroSD card slots?
"Hey! My Xoom has a microSD card slot! Yay! What do you mean it doesn't work?"
"Sweet! My WinMo7 phone can be expanded by microSD! What do you mean I can't remove it after I put it in without wiping?"
We're seeing it again with the new Lightning connector, not realizing it's the stepping stone to USB3.
But I digress.
Right now, NFC gets me (if I buy in whole hog into the NFC bandwagon):
1) Tag to launch URL.
2) Tag to launch App.
3) PIN/App/Tag to buy stuff
4) Basic contacts transfer from device to device
5) Entry / key card.
6) Inventory tracking (essentially personal barcoding)
7) other things I sure to have missed.
When I say it like that, it sounds neat. But the fine print isn't very friendly.
I'd venture to guess that somebody in charge at Apple is asking the question: "Would this feature definitively make the user's life better right now, and if not, does it have the potential to? And if it has the potential to, how do we make that potential a reality?"
And the answer I'd venture to guess is: "No, it's a hell hole right now. But it could become awesome. But we need to partner with a lot of people to get ball rolling."
Launching an App from a tag. Is it easier to encode a bunch of tokens with app info to launch instead of bringing up the app panel on the phone itself? Probably not. What's a situation where people in general benefit from this?
Entry card; There's a lot of NFC/RFID systems out there that can work with card emulation. Except, card emulation requires passing around the security keys that help you clone keys. Not very good when you're trying to secure the entry system. What's even worse is: how do you pick what NFC card you want your phone to pretend to be (until in the far future when some company finally does standardize an open protocol for authentication)? Use an app? So now I have to turn on the phone, open a specific app, and then use the app to open my hotel room door? Not exactly as easy as select the card from my real wallet, is it?
Likewise, payments. Payments comes up as the most common example because buying stuff is something everybody does often. It's a great example. It's also one of the most well known NFC deployments in the US (despite its infancy) partly because of the Google Wallet push. It also blends all of the problems of NFC adoption into one coherent story.
Another thing about Google Wallet is that it supports at the moment only MasterCards from Citibank.
I do happen to have one. But it's not my main credit card. In fact, it's my last ditch credit card behind a Visa and an AMEX who both give me more rewards points. If Apple were to launch NFC right now, it'd be even tougher trying to convince us that NFC's going to change our lives when only one bank in one country supports a subset of their cards for payment. And the user experience means that we'd be futzing with our phones every time we make a payment.
Contacts transfer. This can work pretty well if people had more NFC devices. Is it worth the time investment for people to carry around NFC business cards? Eh... not so much right now. There just isn't that many NFC readers. Eventually, this will be the norm. But dang, QR codes and normal business cards are more compatible and lower cost for the time being.
The compelling user experience story just isn't there.
When it is, you'll see an iPhone with NFC.
In the meantime, you can listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkzPc8ZvCco#t=3490s
(edited your post just for brevity)
I agree with most of your post.
p.s. maybe I'm missing something but according to this (http://www.google.com/wallet/faq.html) You can actually register any credit card but that the exchange itself is done via a virtual MC. Meaning you can still use any card tied to your wallet. No?
Almost anyone who had the Palm Pre Touchstone induction charger can vouch for how useful and fun it was.
You might as well debate how "practical" the expansion connector on the bottom of every iOS device is. The majority of people will likely never or rarely use it for anything other than charging, but it's nice that's there for other purposes if we wish.
On Android, the phone just has to be awake. No need to find and open the Wallet app. Touching the payment pad will be enough to start the app for you.
I think that Apple will support NFC as soon as they have their own iTunes based bank set up, and they manage to talk vendors into paying a little extra Apple palm grease.
-Wireless Standards of A/C and D/C.
-Higher Mega-pixel rear camera
-Higher Mega-pixel front camera (or maybe never)
-A6X Processor
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
That's a different point than I tried to make. What you say above is correct (it is what it means to have $100B in the coffers).
But what you originally tried to imply is that having $100B in the coffers means that Apple knows best. That's entirely different, thus the drug dealers, big tobacco, big oil and Gov examples of other entities with enormous cash flows- some bigger than Apple's- not meaning that they know best... or better based upon how much cash or cash flows they realize.
Point: how much cash a company has or makes does not support "they know best" among the masses. All it means is that customers find enough value in what Apple offers "as is" to buy a lot of it... just like they might buy lots of product from drug dealers, big tobacco, big oil, Wall Street banks, etc. who, in spite of having enormous cash and cash flows, also don't know best.
No need to get so defensive man! All I'm saying is that we never know it can be done until they do it.
that sounds more like a 5S upgrade.
I can't believe that the next iPhone will have a better processor than my laptop!