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Apple Set to Battle Class Action Lawsuit Over Labor Code Violations Starting Tomorrow

Will corporations take every advantage they have? Yes.
Will employees take every advantage they have? Yes.
Human Nature.

BUT - I am not impressed with the lawsuit's merits. How is it that every police-officer I know (like my Uncle) is not entitled to breaks or meals? He does not get to pull over his car to the curb and stop doing things for 15 minutes every four hours. He does not get to say, "Time Out! I'm off the clock for half-an-hour while I eat!" No, he leaves his food on the counter and runs out when there is a call, people interrupt him every few minutes while he eats with, "Hey- can I ask you a question?" Many shifts he shoves whatever food he can into his gullet while he can between work tasks.

Imagine a medical doctor eating in a restaurant or an Apple Genius trying to grab a quick meal at the food court and people keep walking up to them with, "Hey, I have this weird growth on my arm, what is it?" or "Hey- all the contacts in my phone are triplicated, how do I fix this?"

Yeah- Not impressed with the lawsuit's merits. Just like I'm not impressed with whiny cry-baby do-nothing overrated professional millionaire athletes making "statements" while disrespecting the symbol for which thousands of sacrificing and suffering, have died.

#UnpopularOpinion
 
aitachi said:
Former Apple retail employee here. I did two stints with Apple at two different stores in two different cities in two different positions. My experience was the exact opposite of what this suits claim. Managers and Store Leaders not only required us to take our breaks on time they practically hounded us to do so, going so far as to sub employees out with someone else if they were in deep helping a customers and needed to take a break. I'm not saying this suit doesn't have merit; I have no doubt some stores and managers did not follow the law. However, to put this on the level of institutional malfeasance? I don't think so.
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BUT, when did you work there, aitachi?
 
62tele said:
No it's not. Employees deserve to be treated fairly and have a break. You think our citizens deserve to work in such conditions like the sweat shops in China? If so, this would be an example of US workers not being respected or valued. By your logic I suppose it's perfectly fine that top executives now earn, on average 200 to 300 times the average worker. For reference the ratio has gone up from 120-to-1 in 2000, 42-to-1 in 1980 and 20-to-1 in 1950.

Count me on the employee's side.
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Excellent. Before the trial even begins...
 
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China constructs phones through the bodies of slaves, just as it constructed its walls with the bodies of slaves. Apple drives forward no matter the cost. Consumers like me continue to purchase these machinations of misery, and not much will change our habits. And so continues the miracle of human life.
 
robotica said:
Sickening what some major companies do to there loyal employees.
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1) The facts are alleged, not settled fact. Also, not settle is IF the facts here are proven, if it's widespread or limited to a particular store or region due to a single bad manager.
2) Loyal employees? You make it sound like a romance novel. Employees work to get paid. That is the sum of the basic employee-employer relationship. The minute an employee finds something better they are off to that job. Happens every day in every field.
 
gavroche said:
He was saying that even when they try to obey every letter of the law, and do everything right, they very often get sued anyway. And it gets packaged into class action lawsuits because they gathered up three complainants. And it ends up costing millions of dollars to defend. And this results in less money to give better pay and benefits to employees. The same ones you are siding with.
If you think this is not a factor that companies take into consideration when choosing a jurisdiction in which to operate a business, you are sadly misinformed.
I chalk your post up to someone with very little information rushing to judgment and not taking the time to even fully read and understand someone to whom you are replying before you categorically tell them they are wrong.
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Well, his post didn't spell out any of what you posted. As for your last assertion, you'd be mistaken. Most of my career was in management. Employers don't get sued for "obeying every letter of the law, and doing everything right". They get sued when they push the envelope.
 
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Breaks are required to be available... You are not required to take them... If you're not allowed to take a break to you talk to HR... or has standard business practice changed and I missed it?
If you don't manage your own time and actually take your break, why would you gripe about it? I bet Apple's lawyers show up to court with archived schedules showing breaks built into every schedule, going back to Moses's time (Mic drop).
I had a Genius bar appointment not long ago for a relatives device, and one of the managers walked by and reminded the tech next to us that they were due for a break. Their iPad had what looked like Kronos mobile (or something really similar) with a grid of color coded shifts. Just because a busy Apple Store looks like chaos doesn't mean it's running like the well oiled machine like juggernaut that it is.
What more do people need... Does someone have to force them to leave the customer they're with and drag them to a chair in a back room and record them sitting there to make sure they took their break?
This type of litigiousness is lawyers jumping on a news story because they can make money. It's not about actually getting anything for the people who were affected. Same thing happened with the story about not getting paid the time it took to do a bag check when leaving the store. Really!... Griping about basic loss prevention and inventory control that almost every major retail establishment on the planet has implemented? I used to work for a theme park.. now that's an egregious level of 'bag check' on entry and exit to the premises.
 
robotica said:
Sickening what some major companies do to there loyal employees.
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Easy to throw around such broad statements, eh? What if this was one store failing to follow Apple's own employment standards, not to mention California and US laws? How does one store reflect the 100+ stores under Apple's wing? I have no problems with people standing up for what's right, but I doubt that these workers were treated badly like mindless slaves, as they want to portray this as. Sure, Apple not sending a final cheque for several weeks — that's not good — but only affected employees should make up this lawsuit, not the entire class of employees.

crescentmoon said:
Apple manufacturing is mostly overseas.... along with 14.5 billion in taxes owed to the US government or European Union. They have over 200 billion outside the US hoping the we will grant a one time tax amnesty to bring it in which I oppose. Can't really blame them though... they do what comes naturally to a company as large as they are. As for their California employees, they cannot ship their jobs overseas so they must abide with the laws of California.
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14.5 billion owed to the US government ... for work performed and revenue generated overseas? I fail to understand this viewpoint. I know it's not as simple as that, but that's how the US has portrayed this ... that all of Apple's revenue around the world should generate tax for the US government. It's not right.
 
Chupa Chupa said:
1) The facts are alleged, not settled fact. Also, not settle is IF the facts here are proven, if it's widespread or limited to a particular store or region due to a single bad manager.
2) Loyal employees? You make it sound like a romance novel. Employees work to get paid. That is the sum of the basic employee-employer relationship. The minute an employee finds something better they are off to that job. Happens every day in every field.
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People with that mentality, don't have 'loyalty'. People who have a job think that way. People who have a career are usually a little more strategic, and often strategy means long term gain, not short term profit. There are many in the world, that will stay where they are out of 'loyalty'. Not because they feel they owe something, but because it's the right place, it's the right thing. It's not all about the money... or at least it shouldn't be.

“Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do.”
Steve Jobs
 
62tele said:
Well, his post didn't spell out any of what you posted. As for your last assertion, you'd be mistaken. Most of my career was in management. Employers don't get sued for "obeying every letter of the law, and doing everything right". They get sued when they push the envelope.
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hogwash. frivolous lawsuits happen all the time. please look up the definition of frivolous lawsuit. and frivolous lawsuits are far more likely in some jurisdictions than others. it's called forum shopping. in the US, why do you think most lawsuits against corporations get filed in a certain court in Texas?
 
I don't know anything about what happened or didn't, but this is why some employers will REQUIRE you to take your breaks regardless of if you want to or not.

*Not talking about Apple, blaming Apple or defending Apple*

You can very easily build a culture where breaks are available, but employees feel like they can't take them or shouldn't take them because others don't or won't. It's not fair to those employees.
 
Fosty said:
Yes because Apple (a huge multinational corporation) always operates in the best interests of its employees not its profits.

:rolleyes:
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so your gripe is against corporations and capitalism, and nothing to do with this particular case. I mean, as soon as you said that Apple was guilty merely because they are a multinational company you let everyone know you were wasting their time reading what you say.
 
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britboyj said:
I worked for Apple retail for 3 years and corporate for 2, from 2008 to 2013. Breaks were mandated HARD. Like, you got written up if you didn't take them. 30 minutes if you went over 5 hours, a 15 if you were under.

I wouldn't be surprised if the violations here are rogue managers.
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There is a reason for this. As some other posters have said that they would prefer this be an option.
The issue you have is that some people will take the option of not taking the break but if some time latter they become disgruntled they will come back and sue you for not giving it to them. This is the same thing with safety gear/procedures.

You can also have what I call the clock watchers. Let say they gave them their break a 5 hour and 5 minutes. The other thing that can happen is let say that the person worked later then they were original scheduled to. This then put them over the time needing a break. No one raised an issue about it until someone become unhappy. I'll wait until I see the facts of the case.
 
From my experience in high school and college, this is a pretty common problem in the U.S. at many companies. Doesn't make it right that Apple does this, but they do seem to get more scrutiny than the average company. I think it's because people expect more from them because they seem like a nice company that cares about the environment and anti-discrimination laws, so they wouldn't do this. That and the fact that their profits are ridiculous. I'd like to see Tim put more efforts into improving working conditions for the employees, which would make me feel better as a customer and a shareholder. It's best to lead by example, and it's the only way things will get better in the retail industry overall. I'm so glad that I got a decent job after graduation so I didn't have to continue doing that. Some of my friends weren't as lucky. Apple might be one of the better retail jobs by comparison, but more could be done. I wish I had stood up for myself more when I worked retail, but then again I was just a dumb kid who didn't know any better.
 
gavroche said:
so your gripe is against corporations and capitalism, and nothing to do with this particular case. I mean, as soon as you said that Apple was guilty merely because they are a multinational company you let everyone know you were wasting their time reading what you say.
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Quite the opposite actually - and I didn't say Apple was guilty that's you making a straw man of what I said. It's you that's playing white knight in the thread to presuppose Apple's innocence without taking seriously the accusations involved.

You acting as PR spin doctor seems to me the waste of time.
 
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gavroche said:
But there are many people (myself included) that often would rather not take the break, and make the extra 30 minutes of labor. So for us it hurts. It should be optional in my opinion... but litigation prevents that.
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And that's exactly why there has to be legislation to prevent you from doing this not only to yourself but to others. If you are willing to waive your right to breaks and overtime don't you think you would be looked upon more favourably by your employer? So now everyone has to waive breaks and overtime. What about weekends? Holidays? Willing to work straight time for those? What if someone else is?

How long before you compromise yourself (and others) into a six day week, 12 hour day with no overtime, no holidays, all in order to compete with those who are willing to do just a little more for less.

There is a long history of labour being taken advantage of and, in truth, the insane wage disparities in the western world show the trend continues, just in different ways. I don't deny anyone the right to work, but not at the expense of the rights of others to be treated fairly and to be paid an equatable wage.
 
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coolfactor said:
Easy to throw around such broad statements, eh? What if this was one store failing to follow Apple's own employment standards, not to mention California and US laws? How does one store reflect the 100+ stores under Apple's wing? I have no problems with people standing up for what's right, but I doubt that these workers were treated badly like mindless slaves, as they want to portray this as. Sure, Apple not sending a final cheque for several weeks — that's not good — but only affected employees should make up this lawsuit, not the entire class of employees.



14.5 billion owed to the US government ... for work performed and revenue generated overseas? I fail to understand this viewpoint. I know it's not as simple as that, but that's how the US has portrayed this ... that all of Apple's revenue around the world should generate tax for the US government. It's not right.
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Well I guess your viewpoint is that apple can do no wrong.... unfortunately that is not the case.... with Apple and most other corporations "money doesn't talk, it swears". Give them an inch and they will take a mile.... you would probably disagree... About Apple's revenue...yes they should pay tax if their headquarters are here... If they are hiding their revenue overseas because of our high tax rates at 35%, certainly that should be changed to reflect the world averages... however many companies do not pay taxes in the US because of tax breaks and loopholes supplied to them by the congress through their lobbyists.... get rid of their tax breaks and loopholes and I may be more sympathetic to your Adam Smith policies of unrestricted capitalism.
 
britboyj said:
I worked for Apple retail for 3 years and corporate for 2, from 2008 to 2013. Breaks were mandated HARD. Like, you got written up if you didn't take them. 30 minutes if you went over 5 hours, a 15 if you were under.

I wouldn't be surprised if the violations here are rogue managers.
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This was my experience as well. Very difficult to imagine a store wherein the leadership abused the employees. Apple's employees are the heart and soul of its operations.
 
I'll wait for the facts, however, it's possible. When some retail stores are busy management could care less about your breaks and if that's the case I'm glad this lawsuit was brought up.
 
crescentmoon said:
Well I guess your viewpoint is that apple can do no wrong.... unfortunately that is not the case.... with Apple and most other corporations "money doesn't talk, it swears". Give them an inch and they will take a mile.... you would probably disagree... About Apple's revenue...yes they should pay tax if their headquarters are here... If they are hiding their revenue overseas because of our high tax rates at 35%, certainly that should be changed to reflect the world averages... however many companies do not pay taxes in the US because of tax breaks and loopholes supplied to them by the congress through their lobbyists.... get rid of their tax breaks and loopholes and I may be more sympathetic to your Adam Smith policies of unrestricted capitalism.
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I doubt many that try to whitewash corporations have actually read a David Cay Johnston book (like Free Lunch), but he's worth mentioning for those that want a window into reality.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01182008/watch.html
 
I'm waiting for the report that Apple has been caning retail employees. That'd be news, not this "not getting our breaks" nonsense.
 
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