Apple Sets April 11 Deadline for U.S. Employees to Return to Office

[IIGS User]

Apple Investors - Sounds Like a Plan


Next Covid Variant - Sure

Variant shmariant.

I worked through the whole pandemic. Immunocompromised and all. Dealing face to face with people day in and day out.

Got 'Rona the first time in November 2020.

Got the vaccine in January and February of 2021, as I am a first responder/essential worker.

Got the booster in October of 2021

Got 'Rona again in January 2022.

I probably make less money than the janitors that clean the space ship. I do what I do because I decided to live a service oriented life and have done so for a quarter century despite the costs to me, my health, and my financial standing.

So, when the next variant comes along, I will probably get it. I'll be wondering if my pre existing conditions like liver disease and a heart valve implant will kill me. and I will have ZERO SYMPATHY for people making 6 figure salaries who aren't willing to go to work every day.

Talk about rich people problems.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Pandemic or not for a lot of programmer working remotely is vastly superior. I've been working from home for 10 years and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to an office.

Everyone has a price.

Google Image Result

 

[macar00n]

Monterey is way more stable than Catalina and initial Big Sur. Those two releases caused 4-5 kernel panics PER DAY on my 2019 i9 iMac with the Vega GPU. Apple confirmed it was an OS issue and was fixed in a late Catalina patch and the first big Big Sur patch.

Monterey has kernel panic bugs using USB-C external, first-party peripherals that have existed since February 2021. Still unfixed, with 0 acknowledgment or transparency from Apple. MacRumors touched on these at the beginning of their review video of the new M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro. I'm not asserting Catalina and Big Sur were better, just that Monterey has been absolute garbage and if axing remote work (when it shouldn't be necessary to do so) is the way I get a fix to this longstanding unacceptable issue, then I'll take that silver lining.

 

[fhall1]

covid is done for the most part... vaccinate the compromised and lets all get back to life again...

Tell that to the friends and families of the 1,800 people in the US still dying every day from it.

 

[ss2cire]

Indeed. Apple has some serious competition here.



Not having those days be consecutive is just annoying for everyone, though.

If it were office Monday through Wednesday, remote Thursday through Friday, you could:

1. pack your stuff on the weekend or Monday morning, head to the office, leave some things at the office for Tuesday and Wednesday
2. on Wednesday, bring everything home; use that on Thursday on Friday

Instead, it's:

1. pack your stuff on the weekend or Monday morning, head to the office, leave some things at the office for Tuesday
2. on Tuesday, bring everything home; use that on Wednesday
3. pack your stuff again for Thursday; bring it home again the very same day
4. on Friday, use it again

My ideal work in office day(s) would be Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, essentially having the ability for an extended weekend.

 

[fhall1]

Looks like a cool place to work and probably has amazing amenities. However maybe a middle ground should be met (3 days office, 2 at home).

Is this sarcasm or did you not read the article?

 

[jonnyb098]

Anyone complaining about this clearly hasn’t been using apple products the last two years. They absolutely need to get people back in the office seeing as how SOOOO many silly bugs have been plaguing products since iOS 13.

 

[Ethosik]

But if you're packing that food and bringing it to the office, you could also pack that food and not bring it to the office.

On the other hand, in the office, plenty of people don't bother to bring food in and just buy from the cafeteria or whatever fast food is nearby.

Yep this was me. Went to fast food 3 times a week.

 

[xStep]

What these companies don't realize is that many engineers suffer from varying degrees of social anxiety and do their best work when alone, not when packed like sardines in an open office.

In the U.S. they are not packed in like sardines. This isn’t a TATA office in India.

April 1 would have been better. ?

That would have been awesome. On Apples anniversary date!

 

[I7guy]

My company has started 'return to office'. They claim it's to be more 'collaborative' but when they moved us to open seating prior to Covid, it was the complete opposite. A noisy, crowded workspace where everyone had headphones on and ignored each other. From assistants to CEOs. People were miserable, many quit.

The real reason? They need asses in seats to get their tax kick-backs and to meet their lease agreements, which are probably long-term. We are more collaborative now more than ever. We can just hit one button to have a meeting, versus searching for a conference room, which were always scarce in this kind of setup since there weren't any private offices or even cubes to have quick meetings. You'd have to go into a tiny phone room to make a personal call - they were always occupied.

They are (currently) not forcing people to go back - they are just asking that teams start with one day per week. I said, no thanks, and decided to just go in when it suited me best and only when I feel comfortable to do so (vendor lunches, team gatherings, and so on).

We've never been more productive, and we've doubled in size and revenue over Covid. They made the mistake of hiring out of state and allowing some employees to be remote full time, and also allowing the unvaccinated to continue remote full time, so I and many others have used this as leverage. You can't have different rules for different people. So I am not forcing my team to do anything - until I am told otherwise.

The company is getting way more out of us now than they would if we went back to that awful work environment. I think one day per week is all I would agree to, or I'd start to look elsewhere.

This week will be my first 5 full day work week in the office since march 13, 2020. I can’t say I’m glad to be back full time however there is a wfh flexible policy.

Zoom just isn’t as productive as being there in person, even including commuting and assuming less hours are worked in the office.

Company has lost hundreds last year and is hiring as fast as another leaves. My guess is most did not want to be vaccinated or continue 100% wfh.

Bottom line I’m happy to be back, but want the ability to have a more flexible schedule.

 

[xStep]

It essentially amounts to a pay cut for most people given the added living expenses of being near the office (which in Apple's case is in a very expensive area), commuting to work every day, and arranging care for their children or elderly parents.

They were hired to be in the office and compensated for this scenario. If anything they would be losing the bonus the gained over the last two years of saving those expenses.

 

[Ethosik]

Monterey has kernel panic bugs using USB-C external, first-party peripherals that have existed since February 2021. Still unfixed, with 0 acknowledgment or transparency from Apple. MacRumors touched on these at the beginning of their review video of the new M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro. I'm not asserting Catalina and Big Sur were better, just that Monterey has been absolute garbage and if axing remote work (when it shouldn't be necessary to do so) is the way I get a fix to this longstanding unacceptable issue, then I'll take that silver lining.

I do not get kernel panics anymore. And with Catalina and Big Sur, it was iMac and only iMac. No extra displays or hubs or anything. And late Big Sur and Monterey have been fine with my external displays, docks, drives and more. I use all the IO on both my M1 Mac mini and my MacBook Pro M1 Max.

Bad bugs happen. I don’t know how you people keep blaming work from home when there is proof bad bugs existed pre-pandemic.

Where is the PROOF that remote work is the issue?

 

[Ethosik]

Anyone complaining about this clearly hasn’t been using apple products the last two years. They absolutely need to get people back in the office seeing as how SOOOO many silly bugs have been plaguing products since iOS 13.

Where is the PROOF that it’s a work from home issue? And Apple has never had bad bugs EVER pre-pandemic?

 

[Rocko99991]

Remote work for developers is great in most cases, but with Apple and similar companies, there is a ton of highly secretive materials & trade secrets that just can’t be secured in a home environment. Hopefully a middle ground can be found.

It's not just security. You do not have the same synergy when working/learning remote vs. in person. The spoiled employees need to get back to the office or find another job that will allow them to work from home. Hiding out under the guise of safety is transparent and tiresome.

 

[genovelle]

As I said in the other thread, it is Apple's prerogative to do this, but they are going to lose a lot of excellent people.

A large number (perhaps a majority) of tech companies now allow most employees to work fully remote and many companies don't even have offices for their people to return to. New companies aren't even leasing office space in many cases, and many existing companies have outgrown their existing office space because they've hired so many people during Covid.

A lot of people are going to leave the company if they're compelled to return to the office every day, or even to work in a hybrid arrangement. It essentially amounts to a pay cut for most people given the added living expenses of being near the office (which in Apple's case is in a very expensive area), commuting to work every day, and arranging care for their children or elderly parents.

Apple needs people who are committed to working for Apple period. If retail employees can go to work everyday and deal with customers including the Today at Apple sessions they can go to the office 3 days out of the week. If not, they may not have what it takes to continue at Apple. It opens the door for more dedicated employees who really appreciate the rare opportunity they are getting.

 

[genovelle]

Where is the PROOF that it’s a work from home issue? And Apple has never had bad bugs EVER pre-pandemic?

You’re kidding right?

 

[UnusedLoginID]

As I said in the other thread, it is Apple's prerogative to do this, but they are going to lose a lot of excellent people.

A large number (perhaps a majority) of tech companies now allow most employees to work fully remote and many companies don't even have offices for their people to return to. New companies aren't even leasing office space in many cases, and many existing companies have outgrown their existing office space because they've hired so many people during Covid.

A lot of people are going to leave the company if they're compelled to return to the office every day, or even to work in a hybrid arrangement. It essentially amounts to a pay cut for most people given the added living expenses of being near the office (which in Apple's case is in a very expensive area), commuting to work every day, and arranging care for their children or elderly parents.

These “people” have outrageous pay and they also have mortgages on their second home they just bought in Tahoe so, no they’re not gonna leave!

 

[The Clark]

So when employee's are back in office and there's still bugs and glitches who's fault is it?

There have always been problems with MacOS/iOS/iPad OS and I personally have not noticed an influx of bugs since they migrated to WFH.

 

[The Clark]

These “people” have outrageous pay and they also have mortgages on their second home they just bought in Tahoe so, no they’re not gonna leave!

These "people" are also extremely talented, smart, and capable. Any Software Developer or Eng. who's worked at Apple will have no problem finding a more flexible workplace elsewhere.

 

[The Clark]

Bottom line I’m happy to be back, but want the ability to have a more flexible schedule.

This. In office collaboration is great, but 40 hours a week in an office with 0 flexibility isn't conducive to a healthy work life balance. People just want options.

 

[macar00n]

I do not get kernel panics anymore. And with Catalina and Big Sur, it was iMac and only iMac. No extra displays or hubs or anything. And late Big Sur and Monterey have been fine with my external displays, docks, drives and more. I use all the IO on both my M1 Mac mini and my MacBook Pro M1 Max.

Bad bugs happen. I don’t know how you people keep blaming work from home when there is proof bad bugs existed pre-pandemic.

Where is the PROOF that remote work is the issue?

I never said remote work was responsible - and I definitely said that I'm a huge proponent of remote work. I was saying that if Apple pulling people back into the office resolves this, as a user of this (bad) software I will breathe a sigh of relief. Even though I know it's possible to ship quality software while working remotely, and strongly believe in a future where remote work is the first choice for any roles that support it.

 

[genovelle]

I was reading an article yesterday about how the work from home crowd will soon create something they don’t want, competition. They will now find that People with more experience and talent will be able to take their jobs and get paid far more from anywhere in the world. Performance in regards to payment will take a larger position overall

 

[genovelle]

This. In office collaboration is great, but 40 hours a week in an office with 0 flexibility isn't conducive to a healthy work life balance. People just want options.

3 days a week in the office is their schedule

 

[The Clark]

3 days a week in the office is their schedule

Yeah and that's great, but many people in the comments seem to think they should be forced to return to office full time. I can't for the life of me understand why.

 

[DFZD]

Reading all these comments I now totally understand why MR team decided to disable comments on anything remotely political. I guess this is the new internet, we all have to pretend to be apolitical now for our own safety and sanity.