We had Nintendo
ha.. yeah.. me too.. and it was cool but i still liked to play outside til dark like you did.
i wasn't really defending that fact that way more kids are doing non- (physically) active things these days.. it kind of makes me sad too.
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Apple Settles In-App Purchase Lawsuit, Offers iTunes Credits and Refunds to Parents
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ha.. yeah.. me too.. and it was cool but i still liked to play outside til dark like you did.
i wasn't really defending that fact that way more kids are doing non- (physically) active things these days.. it kind of makes me sad too.
Seriously?!
What kind of nonsense is this? Apple almost forces you to link a credit card to your account (yes, I'm aware you can create an account without one) if you buy any apps that cost money.
After that, Apple made it very very easy to do in-app purchases without requiring any authentication or any checks.
Additionally, there is no real sign showing that a free game has in-app purchases so if someone downloads a free game for their kid, they may not expect that to happen. And you blame the parents for this?
Seriously, the amount of fanboism here is too much.
Now, I'm not saying it's all Apple's fault, but jesus, you guys go way overboard in defending Apple.
In my opinion, Apple isn't responsible to reimburse the parents.
If you link your credit card to your iTunes account you're inviting its use. You wouldn't give your credit card to your child and send him/her into a mall. This is no different.
What kind of nonsense is this? Apple almost forces you to link a credit card to your account (yes, I'm aware you can create an account without one) if you buy any apps that cost money.
After that, Apple made it very very easy to do in-app purchases without requiring any authentication or any checks.
Additionally, there is no real sign showing that a free game has in-app purchases so if someone downloads a free game for their kid, they may not expect that to happen. And you blame the parents for this?
Seriously, the amount of fanboism here is too much.
Now, I'm not saying it's all Apple's fault, but jesus, you guys go way overboard in defending Apple.
That's what I thought this was about as well until I read the article. I had no idea that in app purchases could be made without a password. Now I understand what a friend of mine was saying about his kid making $50 in purchases on their iPad. I thought they were foolish for handing their password to the child but now it makes sense to me. I'm glad Apple has now made it right.
In my opinion, Apple isn't responsible to reimburse the parents.
If you link your credit card to your iTunes account you're inviting its use. You wouldn't give your credit card to your child and send him/her into a mall. This is no different.
Issue is if your kids have the credit card, he/she should not able to make a purchase, nowadays they must either provide zipcode or ID in order to finish the transaction. jjj
These type of security is totally under Apple's control. Hence, Apple is responsible for the misuse due to lack of security.
When I've made purchases in the past it could take days for me to receive an email confirmation. I understand hat you believe to be exceptional astute with this type of situation but clearly there was a problem with how Apple and developers arranged this system otherwise there wouldn't have been so people being negatively affected. This wasn't a one off occurrence to a handful of people, it effected 23,000,000 iTunes accounts.
I wouldn't include Xbox with those. Unless they've made it so you can actually remove your credit card info hassle free? Even if you have an active Live account?
Swings and such would count as devices.because you didn't have devices..
sorry ol buddy, your past is in fact the past
Read - anyone who has claimed they had more than $30 will be able to get cash, not credit.
How does NFC let someone buy something at Amazon?
Although I could see people lending their kid their phone and later finding out they bought lunch for half their class at jack in the box or 7-11.
THIS is where I'd blame the parent
3rd gen? They've 5th gen games out now (the B&W series, and 6th gen X&Y out soon on a 3DS near you!)The GameBoy (Color): famous for not having a backlight. Yep, still can't play in the dark
Other than that, I really like the GameBoy Color. I miss Nintendo when it was good
Oh wait, you're 10. Stop playing those hipster Pokémon 3rd gen games, n00b! (jk)
Presumably, you would of already made claims against this.
And they would deauthorize your account for this as well.
me too
nothing.. i just made a joke in passing about times they are a changin.
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yes. of course
device is sort of taking on a new meaning these days though.
[edit] ie-
parent: "hey honey, why don't you go play on that device in the backyard"
kid: "ok.." **takes ipad out back and sits under the tree with it**
just for clarity.. the original article is referring to kids as in little kids..
the jackinthebox scenario is teenager nearing adulthood kids.. and they'd be a lot more (completely?) aware of what they're doing with mom's iphone at 7-11..
if they spend the cash without parents permission, they will be held accountable.. not apple.. but that's not what's going on in this case.
(and yes, the parents are to blame here as well.. but not so much because of 'bad parenting'.. more like blamed because they let their kid outsmart them
)
FYI:
IAP was brought in to begin with because too many developers started to push out "apps" that would add coins/money to your original game. The problem with it was that they soon started to crowd the top lists on paid/free and they could only be used once. A handful of developers, including Storm8's and Ngmoco's (now defunct) games used to deal with add-ons this way.
There isn't anything wrong with IAP in general, it's just that it really should have been something that was limited to certain types of games, like MMOs. There are too many casual games with IAP solely for unlocking all levels and power ups.
And the thing is that when Apple started offering IAP, no one else was doing it, so the real issue is that if you weren't even following tech news (or reading the updates being pushed to your phone), you wouldn't have a clue about it even being a new option or that it was going to get implemented in pretty much everything moving forward. Too many people found out about them simply because of their credit card statements.
I'm not a parent, but I have a little brother. And I'm very actively involved with him when it comes to the App Store. I actively seek out games that do not beg for social media login information, and I try to stay away from IAP totally. When you show kids a really, really good game, they end up looking past the lame freemium ones.
Parents should look at the App Store as like a bookstore or clothing shop. You have to set a standard of what games are good for your child, and which are not. Do you want them to be reading comics all day, or do you want them to actually get some real reading done? Do you want a game that is simply a time waster, or do you want a game that makes them think what's the best way to get from a to b?
Both parties in this case are wrong IMO.
IAP was brought in to begin with because too many developers started to push out "apps" that would add coins/money to your original game. The problem with it was that they soon started to crowd the top lists on paid/free and they could only be used once. A handful of developers, including Storm8's and Ngmoco's (now defunct) games used to deal with add-ons this way.
There isn't anything wrong with IAP in general, it's just that it really should have been something that was limited to certain types of games, like MMOs. There are too many casual games with IAP solely for unlocking all levels and power ups.
And the thing is that when Apple started offering IAP, no one else was doing it, so the real issue is that if you weren't even following tech news (or reading the updates being pushed to your phone), you wouldn't have a clue about it even being a new option or that it was going to get implemented in pretty much everything moving forward. Too many people found out about them simply because of their credit card statements.
I'm not a parent, but I have a little brother. And I'm very actively involved with him when it comes to the App Store. I actively seek out games that do not beg for social media login information, and I try to stay away from IAP totally. When you show kids a really, really good game, they end up looking past the lame freemium ones.
Parents should look at the App Store as like a bookstore or clothing shop. You have to set a standard of what games are good for your child, and which are not. Do you want them to be reading comics all day, or do you want them to actually get some real reading done? Do you want a game that is simply a time waster, or do you want a game that makes them think what's the best way to get from a to b?
Both parties in this case are wrong IMO.
Whether it's the parents fault or not, it's morally wrong to have a game for free or 99 cents that has an in-app purchase of $60 for a bag of coins.
The reason why it's allowed is because Apple make money from it. Maybe a more socially responsible company wouldn't allow it.
The reason why it's allowed is because Apple make money from it. Maybe a more socially responsible company wouldn't allow it.
Who says it is Apple's fault? But when kids make in-app purchases, the money is collected by Apple, so if parents want to get the money back, it should be Apple refunding the money. Apple then has a contract with the developer and it's their problem getting the money back from the developer.
Every purchase is a contract. Someone who is underage can enter a contract, but the contract is voidable. If you sell to children, then the child or their guardian (usually the parents) can void the contract and you have to refund the money, with some exceptions which mean kids can use their pocket money. Kids making in-app purchases with the parents' credit card paying is surely a voidable contract where you can ask for a refund.
Because the parent says it was the kid, and if they are lying to get their money back then it is fraud, which is a serious crime. So Apple would rely on their customers not being criminals. It's not "I ask Apple and they will pay me", it's "I commit the serious crime of fraud by lying to Apple, and they will pay me".
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It's not all parents' fault...
Until recently my opinion was "let parents watch their kids", an ignorant opinion like many here in this thread. This happened 2 weeks ago....
My 3.5yo niece loves some drawing app on iphone (and ipad). She's not some child who'd play games all day long, almost never, she draws, sings, dances, they don't want to raise her to be some brat glued to monitor, which is good. So she wanted to draw on some app (with fine sounds playing every time you draw a line, she loves it). Then she started clicking other games (all strictly under my supervision). I was relaxed since she can't type in the password. But then I downloaded Talking Tom for her to play (I had to enter password in appstore of course). She played Tom for like 5 minutes and switched to some ClayJam game I once downloaded to test, since it was free. She played that and suddenly, when I didn't look for 1 second, she bought "ultimate clay pack" for 44.99. Of course, lately all games (especially Zynga) are raping users with some popups and "buy" buttons. Since it was less than 15 minutes since I downloaded Tom, in-app purchase went through. It was my fault, of course, but if games are made for kids, it should be expected that kids can press ANYTHING. Waiting for 15 minutes after purchasing Tom to be "safe" is not an option, anyone knowing kids will agree. Apple's fault? Perhaps there could be an option to require password for every in-app purchase (while everything else remains the same)... I dunno. The point is it's not all black and white, this happens too easy and it doesn't mean all parents are bad.
Also, some aftermath: I sent an email to Apple, explained and asked for a refund. I got a personalised mail (someone actually read it and didn't sent some template response) after 20 minutes (!) explaining what to do to avoid this in future and they told me I'm getting a refund in 5 - 7 days. I was impressed as this is by far the best customer support ever.
Until recently my opinion was "let parents watch their kids", an ignorant opinion like many here in this thread. This happened 2 weeks ago....
My 3.5yo niece loves some drawing app on iphone (and ipad). She's not some child who'd play games all day long, almost never, she draws, sings, dances, they don't want to raise her to be some brat glued to monitor, which is good. So she wanted to draw on some app (with fine sounds playing every time you draw a line, she loves it). Then she started clicking other games (all strictly under my supervision). I was relaxed since she can't type in the password. But then I downloaded Talking Tom for her to play (I had to enter password in appstore of course). She played Tom for like 5 minutes and switched to some ClayJam game I once downloaded to test, since it was free. She played that and suddenly, when I didn't look for 1 second, she bought "ultimate clay pack" for 44.99. Of course, lately all games (especially Zynga) are raping users with some popups and "buy" buttons. Since it was less than 15 minutes since I downloaded Tom, in-app purchase went through. It was my fault, of course, but if games are made for kids, it should be expected that kids can press ANYTHING. Waiting for 15 minutes after purchasing Tom to be "safe" is not an option, anyone knowing kids will agree. Apple's fault? Perhaps there could be an option to require password for every in-app purchase (while everything else remains the same)... I dunno. The point is it's not all black and white, this happens too easy and it doesn't mean all parents are bad.
Also, some aftermath: I sent an email to Apple, explained and asked for a refund. I got a personalised mail (someone actually read it and didn't sent some template response) after 20 minutes (!) explaining what to do to avoid this in future and they told me I'm getting a refund in 5 - 7 days. I was impressed as this is by far the best customer support ever.
Wow plenty of dumb comments here.
Ofcourse it's Apples fault and ofcourse the password MUST be typed to purchase anything costing money.
And ofcourse they did that on purpose, so that they would make $$$ on people.
And bad parenting ? Come on fellows - You got kids or any knowledge of life? Not bad parenting, but you commenting like that are bad people.
Ofcourse it's Apples fault and ofcourse the password MUST be typed to purchase anything costing money.
And ofcourse they did that on purpose, so that they would make $$$ on people.
And bad parenting ? Come on fellows - You got kids or any knowledge of life? Not bad parenting, but you commenting like that are bad people.
exactly..
However, on the flip-side, i rented the movie Hitchcock from iTunes, i had buffering issues, terrible experience, totally un-playable.
I emailed Apple, and they actually game me back my money. (even though the movie played perfectly fine after) hehehe..
Point is, Apple is going against their own TOS....
They boast about, all fees/credits are final from In-App Purchases, iTunes & App Store, but they then end up refunding you of you tell then you have issues.
Totally un-belivable.
Talk about bending over backwards from the customer
I thought agreements were binding......... I guess when it comes to Apple, their not.
Personally, in this articles case, it should be the parent who knew what their kids would do.
Parental controls may have helped here, but if the kids are smart, they know how to turn them off... so .... basically, i guess anything is better than nothing, but really.. its useless in the end.
I wondered why the parents just didn't take the phone ? and or have their stuff on them ? Thats the real issue. I've never done in-app purchases, so i dunno, but wouldn't you need to confirm with CSV digits on the back of the card ? If so... flag#2 for parents.
By the way, to the above comment... didn't this happen before the in-app password was required in IOS ?, is not, then ya, a"better" password would have prevented this too.
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To all the people saying it's lazy parenting, this is simply not the case.
The point is, that parents have been taken for a ride by the app makers, for being conned into extra spending without sufficient warning by the app, or adequate security controls by Apple for preventing it from happening. Parents have unwittingly input their password for their child to download a supposedly 'free' game. At no point does the parent think that they have authorised their child to download what ever they like, racking up a huge credit card bill. At no point does the child go out of their way to deliberately spend Mum and Dad's credit card without authorisation.
It happened to me - and I was mortified when I found out! - I'm a tech savvy Apple geek, and probably more strict than most parents out there, about what I allow/disallow my kids to do. The fault is firmly on Apple's side and the App Maker's here, who stood to gain financially from the situation.
The point is, that parents have been taken for a ride by the app makers, for being conned into extra spending without sufficient warning by the app, or adequate security controls by Apple for preventing it from happening. Parents have unwittingly input their password for their child to download a supposedly 'free' game. At no point does the parent think that they have authorised their child to download what ever they like, racking up a huge credit card bill. At no point does the child go out of their way to deliberately spend Mum and Dad's credit card without authorisation.
It happened to me - and I was mortified when I found out! - I'm a tech savvy Apple geek, and probably more strict than most parents out there, about what I allow/disallow my kids to do. The fault is firmly on Apple's side and the App Maker's here, who stood to gain financially from the situation.
I know of someone who has an iPad and an iPhone and he lets his 6 and 11 year olds play those lovely FREE games all the time. He's not going to buy them an iToy for themslves.
Now if your the sort of person who doesn't check you bank statements
until its posted to you, which is how it was done a few years ago, and you see no harm in your child playing a fun in innocent looking game, but your child was actually racking up hundreds on your credit card on in app purchases as they didn't know what they were doing and their were NO safe guards against it, and you only find out when your credit statement comes through the letterbox.
Who are you going to blame? The child for playing a fun lil game like where's my water? Or the company earning 30% of every IAP and the developer milking in the millions who have NOT provided any safeguards against this?
I know who I would blame and it isn't the child. And as America just loves any excuse to sue then the inevitable has happened.
Now if your the sort of person who doesn't check you bank statements
until its posted to you, which is how it was done a few years ago, and you see no harm in your child playing a fun in innocent looking game, but your child was actually racking up hundreds on your credit card on in app purchases as they didn't know what they were doing and their were NO safe guards against it, and you only find out when your credit statement comes through the letterbox.
Who are you going to blame? The child for playing a fun lil game like where's my water? Or the company earning 30% of every IAP and the developer milking in the millions who have NOT provided any safeguards against this?
I know who I would blame and it isn't the child. And as America just loves any excuse to sue then the inevitable has happened.
I think, this just proves one thing, weather you trust your kids, or don't..... never leave your iPhone that someone else can easily use it.
Blaming Apple and App developers for implementing this, is not fair to say either, because people were doing this anyway without parental controls in the first place before they were even mentioned.
Its like saying "Apple has warped our minds with parental control for your kids." Wrong.... Its a feature to help you..... People just use it the wrong way.
Before these stuff even exsisted on any device, i bet their were all this stuff going on, allot more than now, so it is doing something to help..
The side effect of "this risk is going up " its lack of understanding.
Blaming Apple and App developers for implementing this, is not fair to say either, because people were doing this anyway without parental controls in the first place before they were even mentioned.
Its like saying "Apple has warped our minds with parental control for your kids." Wrong.... Its a feature to help you..... People just use it the wrong way.
Before these stuff even exsisted on any device, i bet their were all this stuff going on, allot more than now, so it is doing something to help..
The side effect of "this risk is going up " its lack of understanding.
DingDingDingDingDing!!!! Someone gets it.
Sure, parents should take responsibility, but that doesn't give supposedly reputable companies the green light to screw money out of kids the millisecond a parent turns their back.
These "freemium" games are cleverly designed by amoral advertisers to place temptation and peer-pressure on users to rack up in-app purchases - especially the ones that mix "play money" with real currency. They are highly likely to catch out even a kid who you'd trust implicitly not to steal money from your wallet.
Personally, I feel that they are a pox on the face of gaming - I'd rather buy a game for a sensible price and get something tailored to give the best gameplay than play a "free" game in which all the gameplay was directed at getting me to keep opening my wallet.
This is missing the point entirely. I didn't leave my iPhone lying around so my son could use it without me watching him. I gave him SUPERVISED access to my iPhone, with my consent - and yet he was still able to rack up a credit card debt.
An iPhone screen is designed for one person to view at a time, and it's almost impossible to physically sit behind someone playing a game, and intervene by authorising every gesture they make either deliberately or accidentally. This is exactly why the relevant security controls are necessary.
Parenting is easy? As a parent I wish I could share your sentiment- yet it is so wrong in do many ways.