For talking, you'll need headphones having a microphone boom. Jabra has models that excel in this area (can be used in a factory with forklifts, etc).The noise cancelation is great but Apple seems to forget that many of us talk with these things and in noisy environments they’re useless. I hate that they’re mostly useless to use on a call unless you’re in a quiet room. iPhone has noise cancelation but it breaks entirely when AirPods Pro are in my ear. I don’t get it. Other brands have great mic ambient noise cancelation.