Apple Sold More Macs and iDevices Than All Windows PCs Sold in Holiday Quarter

[LordVic]

You need also to include Windows Mobile OS devices, but that would then make a sensible statistic, which is not the point of this thread!!!

In many ways the key stat to end all stats is tablet owners that ditched the desktop/laptop

----------



LOL, well put, and taken!

I'm new to this board, what is the train of thought prevalent here? Anti Apple? if so, thats ok I use both extensively, and I know the pros and cons of both.

I'm with you. I'm a firm believe in being brand Agnostic. Just because there's an Apple, Google, Samsung, Microsoft or what not logo on a device doesn't automatically assign any attributes to that device, nor excuse the company for any business practices.

unfortunately, On Mac rumours, Expressing such point of view more often than not will get Apple "nutters", an extreme vocal group, who believe everything Apple ever does, Ever will do, and ever did is the pinaccle of all creation. Apple did it first. Apple does everything first. Apple is the Best, and if you dont agree with it you are obviously a Microsoft/Google/Samsung Shill and you're wrong no matter how much the stats and figures back you up, or how subjective the conversation is at hand.

I use just about everything myself. I have an iPod, iPad, macbook air. I run OSx on my desktop and Laptop, alongside as well Windows XP, 7, 8. Linux (several versions) and Android in my phone and a tablet.

But of course, by not being 100% apple, I'm obviously a shill.

its why I went with my signature.

 

[tdale]

There's also the missing factor to the PC declining sales of traditional "computers" (both laptosp and desktops).

We've hit a point of diminishing returns with the standard computer. for a large majority of computer users, They will not tell the difference between a 2 core at 1.6ghz and a Hexacore at 15Ghz..

Why?

Because the standard computer user (not power users who need power), doing mostly basic Office work. Internet via email or browser is not going to benefit anymore from the constantly increasing power. We've hit the power envelope where they are served well, and more than well enough by the bare minimum.

People with 5 year old Computers doing the basic computing don't need to ugprade or replace either. Their stuff still works, still works excellently, and just doesn't need to be replaced.

the Traditional Computer market is heavily saturated and it's at the point where I would claim the vast majority of users are using hardware as is that is well beyond what they ever require.

This all leads to lower PC sales.

However, Tablets, are not replacements for PC's. YES, for some people they are. But they are a companion product. and a relativel new companion product that hasn't hit the same Diminishing returns on performance. In fact, the mobile market is still maturing and we've seen leaps and bounds in performance.

Its because of this, That I have a hard time with the chart. You're comparing two completely seperate markets, combining them as one, and coming to a very unreasonable assertion.

The assertion in this thread is that Apple Computer sales outpaced and passed Windows PC sales.

This is not true. Apple Computer sales were flat. There was little to no change in sales of Mac PC's over the holidays. Apple's MAC platform has failed over and over again to gain siginificant penetration on Windows based computers in the world.

All of a sudden throwing iPad sales into the mix, a relatively new market, that sees a high volume of sales to fill the void that a new Market generates is a red herring.

Apple's PC sales did not increase.

Apples iPad sales are absolutely fantastic.

That is all you can come up to with these stats.

A post I could well have written word for word.

Off topic, I am surprised that Apple haven't used the halo effect to push Mac sales. You got iOS, then look what benefit a companion OSX can provide?\! makes a lot of sense, but they do not seem interested. if nothing else, a bit more profit, a bit more tiedown into the ecosystem.

----------

Really? around here there is plenty of android and windows hate

Hee ok, Im new here, good to see its an equal opportunity forum!

 

[LordVic]

A post I could well have written word for word.

Off topic, I am surprised that Apple haven't used the halo effect to push Mac sales. You got iOS, then look what benefit a companion OSX can provide?\! makes a lot of sense, but they do not seem interested. if nothing else, a bit more profit, a bit more tiedown into the ecosystem.

its hard to do because Apple's business practices and pricing. There is an "apple tax" on hardware (and before everyone foams at the mouth i'll explain)

Apple makes some great products. their Mac's are good computers. But Apple is historically really slow at updates. 1 year between computer refreshes is extremely lengthy when the computer industry moves and releases new parts almost daily. Want an example. look at Mac rumors own "Buyer's Guide" where often you will see the mac computers as yellow or red with a big "don't buy yet"

What you tend to find, is upon a new refresh, Apple's computer parts are extremely competitively priced. They'll be on par with everyone elses.

But 2 months, the competition has already upgraded their hardware and knocked some price off their older models, allowing for some somewhat recent hardware to be sold at smaller margins and smaller values.

Apple on the other hand is Still selling that 2 month hardware, at the price it started at.

This compounds as you start going longer and longer and longer. 6 months to a year, a lot of Apple products become relatively expensive because Apple still hasn't updated the hardware, yet everyone else has.

This is the Apple tax.

And it's this, plus the forced 45% (estimated) profit margin that Apple insists must sell hardware at that tends to steer people towards PC's. Dont' be fooled by Mass Media. Apple computers are still in the < 10% of computers used. mass MEdia and Product placement just makes it look like Apple shares a dominant market place for computers.

Apple also hasn't helped make things better by having very Niche products that don't actually serve the mass audiences. There's always talk about the "x-mac" or the standard Mac computer. it is something that Apple does not currently have in the lineup.

They have some All in ones. They have a very Niche "pro" and they have a low end "mini" (which hasn't been updated in almost 500 days).

the Majority of 'desktops' that are sold are traditional towers. Something Apple does not have.

 

[ElTorro]

The other way to look at it is that Microsoft sold almost as many PCs as the number of iDevices. To me, that is still pretty impressive, given the fact that most people nowadays can do their usual activities on handhelds. While the PC sales are slowing, 70+ million laptops/notebooks is still a pretty huge number.

----------

Apps for iOS run on al these systems, do the numbers make iOS an equal target for your developers because NEW owners are the ones that BUY STUFF.

As far as comparisons, iOS devices range from $250-$900 and PCs range from $300-$900 before your back in the $999+ territory owned by Apple. People that pay more money for a computer BUY MORE STUFF. So again, Apple is where a developer wants to SELL their wares. PC software is owned by Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk, and games that are all $60-$600 to play. The money for little guys is sucked out of the system because nobody PAYS for Windows software.

Apple gives you more chances to MAKE MONEY devs just have to figure out how to get $2-$5 per week, not $199 up front.

iOS Apps do not run on Macs. Windows 8 Apps run on PCs as well as tablets, so I don't see how you argue against Microsoft in this case.

 

[sonicrobby]

Apps for iOS run on al these systems, do the numbers make iOS an equal target for your developers because NEW owners are the ones that BUY STUFF.

As far as comparisons, iOS devices range from $250-$900 and PCs range from $300-$900 before your back in the $999+ territory owned by Apple. People that pay more money for a computer BUY MORE STUFF. So again, Apple is where a developer wants to SELL their wares. PC software is owned by Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk, and games that are all $60-$600 to play. The money for little guys is sucked out of the system because nobody PAYS for Windows software.

Apple gives you more chances to MAKE MONEY devs just have to figure out how to get $2-$5 per week, not $199 up front.

What does that have to do with this report? The study is saying that a company sold more of 4 types of different devices (pcs, phones, tables, and mp3 players) running 2 different OS's when compared to multiple companies single market product (pcs). An iOS vs windows pc sales study makes sense; a mac vs pc sales study makes sense; tablets v tables, phones v phones, os v os etc. are all fair game. But to do 4 devices with 2 os's v 1 kind of device with one os, is sort of common sense that the 4 types of devices on multiples OSs will sell more...

Its like saying, "Ive sold more keys, locks, and doorknobs than the other guy who is selling doorknobs..." No $#!T...

 

[kobalap]

iOS Apps do not run on Macs. Windows 8 Apps run on PCs as well as tablets, so I don't see how you argue against Microsoft in this case.

Absolutely. Windows 8 is like the swiss army knife of operating systems. You can use it as a spoon, a knife, a corkscrew, as pliers, as a screw driver, etc.

And just like a swiss army knife, it can get the job done for any of those tasks - just not very well.

----------

its hard to do because Apple's business practices and pricing. There is an "apple tax" on hardware (and before everyone foams at the mouth i'll explain)

Apple makes some great products. their Mac's are good computers. But Apple is historically really slow at updates. 1 year between computer refreshes is extremely lengthy when the computer industry moves and releases new parts almost daily. Want an example. look at Mac rumors own "Buyer's Guide" where often you will see the mac computers as yellow or red with a big "don't buy yet"

What you tend to find, is upon a new refresh, Apple's computer parts are extremely competitively priced. They'll be on par with everyone elses.

But 2 months, the competition has already upgraded their hardware and knocked some price off their older models, allowing for some somewhat recent hardware to be sold at smaller margins and smaller values.

Apple on the other hand is Still selling that 2 month hardware, at the price it started at.

This compounds as you start going longer and longer and longer. 6 months to a year, a lot of Apple products become relatively expensive because Apple still hasn't updated the hardware, yet everyone else has.

This is the Apple tax.

And it's this, plus the forced 45% (estimated) profit margin that Apple insists must sell hardware at that tends to steer people towards PC's. Dont' be fooled by Mass Media. Apple computers are still in the < 10% of computers used. mass MEdia and Product placement just makes it look like Apple shares a dominant market place for computers.

Apple also hasn't helped make things better by having very Niche products that don't actually serve the mass audiences. There's always talk about the "x-mac" or the standard Mac computer. it is something that Apple does not currently have in the lineup.

They have some All in ones. They have a very Niche "pro" and they have a low end "mini" (which hasn't been updated in almost 500 days).

the Majority of 'desktops' that are sold are traditional towers. Something Apple does not have.

Your hardware/spec fetish has colored your analysis and led you to some poor conclusions.

Most people that buy computers treat them as appliances. I couldn't careless if my microwave has the 2 month old 1000 watt power supply or this month's 1100 watt power supply. I only care about this year's model vs last year. People buy solutions, not components.

Just because you spend your free time fantasizing about hardware specs and the ideal combination of hardware doesn't mean the rest of the world is doing that.

 

[Bruce Oksol]

Pattern

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...osshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;

 

[LordVic]

Absolutely. Windows 8 is like the swiss army knife of operating systems. You can use it as a spoon, a knife, a corkscrew, as pliers, as a screw driver, etc.

And just like a swiss army knife, it can get the job done for any of those tasks - just not very well.

----------



Your hardware/spec fetish has colored your analysis and led you to some poor conclusions.

Most people that buy computers treat them as appliances. I couldn't careless if my microwave has the 2 month old 1000 watt power supply or this month's 1100 watt power supply. I only care about this year's model vs last year. People buy solutions, not components.

Just because you spend your free time fantasizing about hardware specs and the ideal combination of hardware doesn't mean the rest of the world is doing that.

except, where your logic falls is that when that person, who doesn't necessarily care about specs walks into the store to buy their computer. Apples 2 month old computer is 999.

Dells current brand new model is 999, but their 2 month old model is now 699.

Evidence shows that most people steer towards the $699 version. Meanwhile, if you want that Apple, even if you're not fetishizing over the specs, You're still paying more.


thus, the perceived apple Tax and why Apple has been having a really hard time pushing their PC business out of it's very small market share. there's been virtually zero change in this marketshare. Apple Computers do not sell that the gross levels that you would like to believe, or this forum would like to believe. they still hover in the 5-10% region and historically have never managed to break out of that.

 

[OGDK]

Not a very interesting comparison. Come back when worldwide Mac market share is above 25%.

 

[kobalap]

I'll be willing to bet if the comparison was done the other way around most here would be claiming foul because it included all devices and not just pc's.

I enjoy Apple products as much as the next person but these stats seem like a huge reach. I mean, the stuff really is well into the "who cares" territory.

There seems to be very little one can do with this knowledge.. can't make money buying stocks with it, can't use it to decide what products to buy.

It seems like posting data (not information) just for the sake of posting information.

 

[dec.]

The other way to look at it is that Microsoft sold almost as many PCs as the number of iDevices.

And that obviously would be a wrong way to look at it, as Microsoft hasn't sold a single PC (Surface excluded).

 

[kobalap]

except, where your logic falls is that when that person, who doesn't necessarily care about specs walks into the store to buy their computer. Apples 2 month old computer is 999.

Dells current brand new model is 999, but their 2 month old model is now 699.

Evidence shows that most people steer towards the $699 version. Meanwhile, if you want that Apple, even if you're not fetishizing over the specs, You're still paying more.

What is this elementary school level analysis you are doing here? Any consumer product is marked down whenever the model is refreshed. This is true for Dell and this is true for Apple. Walk into Best Buy or an Apple store about a week after one of their models are refreshed.

Apple cannot and does not pretend to get around the basic principles of retailing. Whenever you have a new model, your customers will not pay the same amount for the old model. Notice, I say model.

You know how many people care about Apple's lineup getting refreshed every time a new CPU with a .01 % increase in performance comes out from intel? About seven. All of them are here and various other parts of the internet making arguments about Apple tax.

Normal consumers want to buy a computer. We don't agonize over the CPU being 2 months old or the display being a Samsung vs. an LG or the brand of the ram or the flash drive.

thus, the perceived apple Tax and why Apple has been having a really hard time pushing their PC business out of it's very small market share. there's been virtually zero change in this marketshare. Apple Computers do not sell that the gross levels that you would like to believe, or this forum would like to believe. they still hover in the 5-10% region and historically have never managed to break out of that.

Again, more elementary school analysis. Apple tax based on hardware is an argument that hardware specs fetishists use over and over again. I mean, next you are going to be replying with "I could build my own blah blah blah for 35% of the cost."

 

[LordVic]

What is this elementary school level analysis you are doing here? Any consumer product is marked down whenever the model is refreshed. This is true for Dell and this is true for Apple. Walk into Best Buy or an Apple store about a week after one of their models are refreshed.

Apple cannot and does not pretend to get around the basic principles of retailing. Whenever you have a new model, your customers will not pay the same amount for the old model.

You know how many people care about Apple's lineup getting refreshed every time a new CPU with a .01 % increase in performance comes out from intel? About 7. All of them are here in the internet making arguments about Apple tax.

Again, more elementary school analysis. Apple tax based on hardware is an argument that hardware specs fetishists use over and over again. I mean, next you are going to be replying with "I could build my own blah blah blah for 35% of the cost."

I'd love to break this down for you but it would take some critical thinking and an open mind on your part for you to understand.

you keep wanting to call me a "fetishist" of hardware. I didnt even mention the spec's of the last post

you're also not addressing the issue presented that 6 months after a product refresh, Apple still only has that one 6 month old product at the price they set 6 months ago.;

in that 6 months, the competition has continuously updated their line, constantly releasing updated products. Those updates tend to be at their 'high' point. But the older hardware gets the price chop on a much faster and consitent basis than Apple's once a year.

this doesn't change. in 9 months, The 999 Macbook air, is STILL only $999. Last years model is generally (at least around here) pulled off the shelves so that it's not even a viable option. Heck, Even the Apple site pulls the old model off the site nearly the day the new refresh is announced.

Apple rarely offers discounted products, even if they're 6 month old or 1 year old.

to say it's Appliances so that it's perfectly ok is putting blinderse on. Recently buying Appliances with a new house, The same market affects occur with appliances. the previous model, whether it's 1 or 6 months old often sees a significant price discount from the current model

the "elementary school analysis" as you've dubbed it, isntead of actually making a point, still points that Apple historically has a much slower refresh cycle than any of their competition by months, or even years, mixed in with an absolute lack fo discount to bring their hardware in line with the current going rate for equivelant aged devices, is a strong (not the only) reason for a lack of actual Mac sales by Apple.

Historically, based on Mac sales and its lack of ability to steal any significant market share away from the other Computer sales companies, this isn't a far fetched assumption to come to.

and my "elementary school analysis" seems enough to have gotten me a job as a software and hardware Analyst for a software development company making financial institution enterprise software.

So, if you insist on throwing around the insults instead of actually combating and debating my assertations with any points of your own, please do. But so far you're biggest rebuttal is I'm in elementary school.

I never brought up "building my own PC being cheaper". you did. Thats not an argument I bring about because, well, as someone who has done his share of building home computers, servers, and buying prebuilt machines, including Apple computers, Dells, HP's and Compaqs, I know there are serious pro's and cons to both building, and buying. and Anyone worth their spit in the IT business is going to actually do their research into either before doing either, and this was never even part of my argument at all.

in fact, you might argue with my analysis of one of the roadlbocks apple has towards further market penetration, but I Believe we agree on that Apple doesn't have as big a stake in teh PC business as they'd like you to believe, and the chart indicates.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Total pc sales for 2013 were over 300 million units. Most of them came with Windows 8. While it was actually a bad year for sales, it is a market that hasn't quite gone away yet. Windows 8 is doing ok for a failure.

 

[kobalap]

you keep wanting to call me a "fetishist" of hardware. I didnt even mention the spec's of the last post

Reason being... to compare an Apple computer solution against a wintel solution on the basis of hardware shows your focus is the parts and the pieces. as opposed to the whole solution.

What is the reason that the majority of mac users like macs over windows anything? Because macs are orders of magnitude easier to use.

What do I do to that $699 Dell or an HP to make it as easy for my 73 year old mother to use as the 6 year old mac (running Mavericks) I gave her in December?

My 76 year old dad who now has computer envy doesn't care about any of that CPU, GPU, brand of ram, brand of display business. He just wants an easy to use lap top. You think I am going to steer him to a Windows 8 based laptop that has the latest hardware or do you think I am going to steer him to a Macbook?

you're also not addressing the issue presented that 6 months after a product refresh, Apple still only has that one 6 month old product at the price they set 6 months ago.;

Nope, you know why? The difference between that processor released 6 months ago and the processor released 2 months ago is about 2% on some artificial benchmark (aptly named geek bench). Absolutely no one cares if Apple does not rev products every single time samsung decides tweak the design of their SSD drives. Well, except the hardware feti....

and my "elementary school analysis" seems enough to have gotten me a job as a software and hardware Analyst for a software development company making financial institution enterprise software.

Snore.

Going on 20 years in enterprise software.

 

[tdale]

Kobalap, this all makes sense. You are averse to Windows, hence your anti Windows posts, and your childish comments when someone makes a comment that is not pro Apple, you don't like it.

I use both, as does the person your are acting childishly to, its best to debate rather than use your style of commentary to "win".

I use both and like both, unlike you I know the differences, and the reason I prefer OSX is not because it is more productive, as it isn't. I cannot do any work or pleasure in OSX, you can work that one out.

Why does Windows 8 not do any of these tasks you mention well?

Win and OSX are operating systems, you use the software you buy or acquire to do the work. Do you find Windows hard to use, is that why it doesn't do these tasks very well? Windows doesnt do any tasks except present you with the software to do those tasks. Same with OSX. Using both, they may look different, but they are not that different at all. At least not to anyone who is agnostic and can use both. Using both, its no easier on one or the other to start software, its no easier or harder to configure settings or preferences, its no easier or harder to use the file manager, aka Finder or Windows Explorer. Etc, etc, etc. Is Outlook harder on a PC than a Mac? Is software in general easier on a Mac?

CPU and components. As with any product, and as you well know, there are those that just want a toaster, just want a white, small car. Just want a computer. To say that no-one apart from the 7 here is interested in the specification change on a refresh is silly. Why do you go on about CPU speeds so much? In fact most of us don't really care. I do care about the CPU if it promises a huge battery life. I do care about a Samsung or LG screen, if I prefer not to put up with a faulty design Apple has placed in an rMBP. I do care about some components if they are non upgradeable.

Windows dominates by about 20 fold, and if you prefer Mac thats fine, I do too, but I dont go around insulting people if their words upset me, as I am a fan, not a fan---

Oh, if you wish to throw in the intuitive word, don't. OSX is not intuitive, if you are used to Windows, and vice versa. When a user knows both, they can choose what they prefer and why. Running software very well isn't the reason, as if you use the same software on both, you can ignore what OS is in the background. They are all easy, when you know them.

 

[Max(IT)]

I disagree. Android phone/device numbers would have been a good third metric to include, if actual sales numbers could be obtained. It wouldn't have been included as part of the 'Windows' universe or 'OS X/iOS' universe. Rather, it would have been a whole extra set of numbers (either bars or an extra line) on the chart.

Android has nothing to do with windows/OS X universe, and Android numbers are mainly made by extremely cheap smartphones that have nothing to share with iPads , Macs, Windows Pcs or even Surface tablets.

 

[kobalap]

Kobalap, this all makes sense. You are averse to Windows, hence your anti Windows posts, and your childish comments when someone makes a comment that is not pro Apple, you don't like it.

I use both, as does the person your are acting childishly to, its best to debate rather than use your style of commentary to "win".

I use both also. At my desk, I currently have a Dell latitude and a Macbook pro running right now.

And there is no "winning". I think what you are objecting and characterizing as childish is my being vocal about non-sense such as Apple tax. How can that even exist in a free market?

I use both and like both, unlike you I know the differences, and the reason I prefer OSX is not because it is more productive, as it isn't. I cannot do any work or pleasure in OSX, you can work that one out.

Why does Windows 8 not do any of these tasks you mention well?

Win and OSX are operating systems, you use the software you buy or acquire to do the work. Do you find Windows hard to use, is that why it doesn't do these tasks very well? Windows doesnt do any tasks except present you with the software to do those tasks. Same with OSX. Using both, they may look different, but they are not that different at all. At least not to anyone who is agnostic and can use both. Using both, its no easier on one or the other to start software, its no easier or harder to configure settings or preferences, its no easier or harder to use the file manager, aka Finder or Windows Explorer. Etc, etc, etc. Is Outlook harder on a PC than a Mac? Is software in general easier on a Mac?

Wuh? Are you sure you use a Mac?

Let me give some examples...

You say, "its no easier on one or the other to start software." What about Launchpad? Or the Dock?

Perhaps there is an equally easy way to view all your apps, pick the one you want and launch it in Windows 7 as Launchpad but I haven't yet figured it out. (I've had this laptop for maybe 4 years now.)

And what about App updates? I go to the App Store from my Mac to see if if there are app updates available. I am sure there is a Windows 7 equivalent. I haven't the foggiest idea what it is though. Maybe it is a user issue but I suspect the reason I haven't figured it out yet is, well, you know.

And I am sure there is some super easy, super intuitive incremental backup tool baked into Windows 7. I am positive of it. No clue what is. In a mac? Just plug in a USB drive and Mac walks you through it.

I am not going to say that Windows doesn't work or is not usable. Clearly that is not true. Nor am I going to say that Mac is for everyone. Clearly that is not true either. What I am willing to say is that those who prefer macs over windows do so because macs are easier to use. And you grant that presumption for a minute, then the notion of comparing an Apple computer to a Wintel computer is pointless because it marginalizes the value that "ease of use" offers.

CPU and components. As with any product, and as you well know, there are those that just want a toaster, just want a white, small car. Just want a computer. To say that no-one apart from the 7 here is interested in the specification change on a refresh is silly.

I will concede this point. There are quite a few people who ogle the specs of a computer and even a cellphone and fixate on how many cores and clock speed and so on. Maybe what I should say is, I doubt more than 7 people here in Macrumors know what difference a Quad core snapdragon processor makes over the dual core A7 processor. But you know, Apple taxes you for that. iPhone costs the same or more than a Samsung even though the iPhone only gives you half the cores.

Oh, if you wish to throw in the intuitive word, don't. OSX is not intuitive, if you are used to Windows, and vice versa. When a user knows both, they can choose what they prefer and why. Running software very well isn't the reason, as if you use the same software on both, you can ignore what OS is in the background. They are all easy, when you know them.

Well, I guess anyone can claim to know the difference.

Look, there are surely very good reasons to pick Windows over Mac. For example, there is no version of Visio that is ported to Mac. Or to genericize, there are some apps that are not even available on Macs.

Another might be that there are performance issues on Macs. I read somewhere that someone was getting much better performance from his Mac Pro when running windows on it. I guess the theory right now is the Windows drivers for the GPU are better Mac drivers.

Another reason is that general cost (not talking about Apple tax but overall cost of the solution). With Macs, you have to pay for things like display adapters and ethernet adapters whereas Windows machines tend to have things like an ethernet or a VGA port.

There are lots of good reasons to give as to why wintel machines are superior or at least equal to mac solutions. But "there is no difference between windows and os x" isn't one of them. And neither is Apple tax.

 

[tdale]

Android has nothing to do with windows/OS X universe, and Android numbers are mainly made by extremely cheap smartphones that have nothing to share with iPads , Macs, Windows Pcs or even Surface tablets.

I android does have a high percentage of lower cost devices, but they have some very very good mid and high end as well. Galaxy phones and Note and Tab to name one. And they dominate market share so off course they belong as a member of smart device stats. Note that I do not like android and will never use it but the OS and the devices are and can be very good.

 

[tdale]

I use both also. At my desk, I currently have a Dell latitude and a Macbook pro running right now.

And there is no "winning". I think what you are objecting and characterizing as childish is my being vocal about non-sense such as Apple tax. How can that even exist in a free market?



Wuh? Are you sure you use a Mac?

Let me give some examples...

You say, "its no easier on one or the other to start software." What about Launchpad? Or the Dock?

Perhaps there is an equally easy way to view all your apps, pick the one you want and launch it in Windows 7 as Launchpad but I haven't yet figured it out. (I've had this laptop for maybe 4 years now.)

And what about App updates? I go to the App Store from my Mac to see if if there are app updates available. I am sure there is a Windows 7 equivalent. I haven't the foggiest idea what it is though. Maybe it is a user issue but I suspect the reason I haven't figured it out yet is, well, you know.

And I am sure there is some super easy, super intuitive incremental backup tool baked into Windows 7. I am positive of it. No clue what is. In a mac? Just plug in a USB drive and Mac walks you through it.

I am not going to say that Windows doesn't work or is not usable. Clearly that is not true. Nor am I going to say that Mac is for everyone. Clearly that is not true either. What I am willing to say is that those who prefer macs over windows do so because macs are easier to use. And you grant that presumption for a minute, then the notion of comparing an Apple computer to a Wintel computer is pointless because it marginalizes the value that "ease of use" offers.



I will concede this point. There are quite a few people who ogle the specs of a computer and even a cellphone and fixate on how many cores and clock speed and so on. Maybe what I should say is, I doubt more than 7 people here in Macrumors know what difference a Quad core snapdragon processor makes over the dual core A7 processor. But you know, Apple taxes you for that. iPhone costs the same or more than a Samsung even though the iPhone only gives you half the cores.



Well, I guess anyone can claim to know the difference.

Look, there are surely very good reasons to pick Windows over Mac. For example, there is no version of Visio that is ported to Mac. Or to genericize, there are some apps that are not even available on Macs.

Another might be that there are performance issues on Macs. I read somewhere that someone was getting much better performance from his Mac Pro when running windows on it. I guess the theory right now is the Windows drivers for the GPU are better Mac drivers.

Another reason is that general cost (not talking about Apple tax but overall cost of the solution). With Macs, you have to pay for things like display adapters and ethernet adapters whereas Windows machines tend to have things like an ethernet or a VGA port.

There are lots of good reasons to give as to why wintel machines are superior or at least equal to mac solutions. But "there is no difference between windows and os x" isn't one of them. And neither is Apple tax.

OK, you made me come inside from my beer in the sun (I should be mowing the lawn) I say that in a light hearted way.

I used the word childish in response to the manner that you attacked the other guy here. Not due to Apple tax, which I don't know anything of, as I am in New Zealand. The Apple Tax I know of is here, by way of the US$ and converted to NZ$, add GST, causes us kiwis to be paying a lot more, but that's not an issue.

In Windows you can add your chosen apps to the taskbar, make it bigger if you like, or click the Start Button to see the apps you pinned there. From my experience with both obviously not everything is the identical click number. For example I am used to right clicking IE or Safari on my Win 7 desktop to get the websites I pinned there, cannot do that in OSX. Small things, and again, I don't expect everything to be the same clicks away, win some lose some, no big deal

Updates. Win 7 will update the OS automatically if you set it to that. Programs, if there is an update will alert you, there is an update, do now or later, or such like

Backup In Windows, off course there is , far better than OSX! Geez.
No, there isn't, Kobalap, and good work Apple

I fond that both are easy to se, they are different. Extra clicks here or less, both ways. But to turn on, access software, access settings, there is little in it. The thing I see from both sides is that Mac users are configured to not like Windows and struggle (Generalisation, yes) Same for Win users. Win users say Im so used to this, and its different, but IMO it isn't that different at all if you take it on board. When I first went to OSX it was hard. As my brain had a different workflow. I downloaded a program, a dmg was on the desktop, installed it and two boxes popped up with an arrow. I dragged it (I intentionally went by the intuitive I was told and did not learn OSX first). Nothing happened, no message to say installed, no message to say a problem. Off course it was copied to the Application folder. Not intuitive at all, and I dont say that as a criticism, bit I wasnt used to that , just as Mac users on a PC are not used to that

CPU. Tks. re A7 and Snapdragon, well, with phones at least I have read many posts wher the Android user/Apple hater always conceded that iOS is smooth as silk. They use a custom SoC, designed by Apple for Apple, whereas the others use chip a or b or c etc. iPhone is a slower clock, but its optmised for THE software it runs. Re computers, many buy on price , or storage, etc but those with a wee bit of knowledge do want an i7, do want quad, although with a laptop we also want battery, do want SSD, etc, but I also concede many off course don't their loss. Apple isnt cheap, so best to sort out what you need as you dont really want to upgrade too soon

Intuitive, as mentioned and repeated by many I know here, o on forums, nothing is that intuitive. My first iPhone, a 4, wasn't. How do I do this, how do I do that. I feel the word intuitive is overused at times.

Performance. I dont know about Windows running on a MP, but I di knw that a Mac with exact specs to a Wintel will run slower. Thats not an OSX or Windows thing, Apple clearly has conservative timings on the board, that promotes stability. No issue really.

Adapters? Dont follow you there as apart from recently the ports seemed pretty similar. Now I get few on my just ordered rMBP Haswell, but thats ok, thats progress

Did I say "there is no difference between windows and os x"? If so, I concede. I meant that they look different but the same functions exist, maybe very similar, maybe a click more or less but similar. I just dont see a marked difference, over look and feel, but I prefer OSX due to easier integration, small things such as iMessage, no real need for AV, and my pet hate in Windows , that OSX installs most apps as stand alone, not deposited all over the place as does Windows. These and there are others dont really make Windows low productive as you implied.

At the end of the day, my main grief was cutting down the other guy, you shouldn't denegrate his post to "school stuff", and I shouldn't have mentioned the word childish.

Cheers

Tony, NZ, having one more beer in the sun, then mowing the lawn!!

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

A day without a MacRumors article about how Apple sold more, made more, and is more God-like than everybody else, is like a day without...nausea.

I don't even read them anymore. It's amazing how secretive Apple is about their sales figures yet, somehow, someone somewhere always knows that some category of Apples sales broke some sort of record.

Maybe if Microsoft and Samsung kept their sales number a secret they could boast similar record-breaking sales...

 

[AngerDanger]

This might be my all-time favorite MacRumors post.

Here are some others for your consideration:

This one, this one, another one, this one, and the last one.

Or you can view this album.

 

[Vegangeekkid]

In my opinion the PC's are ending, the era post PC is starting, the tablets, phones and mini tablets are rising and getting more sold than the laptops

 

[DeathChill]

A day without a MacRumors article about how Apple sold more, made more, and is more God-like than everybody else, is like a day without...nausea.

I don't even read them anymore. It's amazing how secretive Apple is about their sales figures yet, somehow, someone somewhere always knows that some category of Apples sales broke some sort of record.

Maybe if Microsoft and Samsung kept their sales number a secret they could boast similar record-breaking sales...

I am truly confused by this post.

Apple is the only one who reports their sales. The other manufacturers (Samsung especially) do NOT report their numbers.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I am truly confused by this post.

Apple is the only one who reports their sales. The other manufacturers (Samsung especially) do NOT report their numbers.

This has been debunked here several times recently, at least where phone sales are concerned. Apple uses the same method to report phone sales as Samsung. I believe that KDarling has provided ample evidence. Apple does give numbers at their quarterly reports.