Apple Starts Letting Developers Add Alternative App Marketplaces to App Store Connect

[Nuno Lopes]

Because Apple doesn't have the power to force all developers to use the Mac App Store.
It would have been much better if the Mac had just one store for all software.

We don't want more options. We want simplicity. Simplicity means limited options.

I appreciate your clarity of opinion. Some people prefer Kim Jon Hu as leader. Life overthere is so simple and quiet, uniforms and all thatZ

My kid is a high functioning autistic young man. IQ over the roof, still he needs to follow specific kind of routine, structure, to cope with life, he eliminates choices all the time to a specific set is able to cope with. The difference between him and you, is that it does say “We” but “I”. Also he seams to be able to cope well with the myriad of choices Internet provides. You know, he learned that ability in school when for instance doing research … reduce reduce. Still he mostly used the same kind of shirt white shirt … , only recently he started to vary.

Here is the thing. Just because there are multiple App Stores no one is forcing you to choose more than one. Keep on buying just from the App Store, keep on going to the same restaurant everyday to get your meal, keep on going to the same supermarket, same shop to buy clothes … even eventually you find something better for this or that … you don’t need to change “countries”, sell your “house” to benefit from it.

Just to say, that I understand that choices, can be terribly confusing for some people. It is more challenging for them… but even they, can learn to choose just one and build amazing things.

Keep on believing in yourself … you can do it. Don’t let the world treat you less than you actually are. Even worst, have you pay for the privilege. Don’t give up on having choices on your own property.

PS: There is a thing of availability of too many options yet not really solving the problem. It comes to my mind the mess that it is iPad OS windows management. But that is just due to bad design. Maybe with multiple App Stores, Apple App Store can focus even more on quality, less apps and more quality … who knows. That can benefit the likes of you that prefer to use just the Apple App Store, less garbage apps, because there is a lot of it in it today for high $$$, rip offs really. But all is good because … well it’s the App Store and Apple is happy with 15%/30% from that bling bling.

 

[djphat2000]

Then maybe the EU needs to come out and state explicitly, bullet point for bullet point, just what exactly they want Apple to do, instead of wording their legislature in such vague terms that it apparently gives Apple so much wriggle room to comply in the worst way possible.

If you think Apple must allow users to be able to freely download apps from the web, then state so in no uncertain terms. If you think Apple cannot be allowed to charge developers a single cent, then state so in no uncertain terms. If Apple must allow third party browser engines and not do away with existing functionality like the ability to save webpages as PWAs, then state so in no uncertain terms.

The fact that we are here even arguing whether Apple's terms will be accepted by the EU or not just proves that the DMA is not a good piece of legislation at all, and it's not as ironclad as the critics here initially claimed. For some reason, so many people here seemed so certain that Apple would be forced to capitulate in a manner that was most disadvantageous to their bottom line, and it would spell the end of the profitability of the App Store. There is no room for alternative interpretations, everyone here said. Any moment now, Apple would be taught their place by the EU and reduced to a snivelling shell of its former self, everyone said.

And yet here we are. 1 month before the DMA is set to go into full force. Apple has unveiled terms that flies in the face of conventional wisdom of pretty much every critic, and it's still up in the air as to whether it will be cleared by the EU or not.

I have been dreaming of this scene for about a week now. Whether it applies to Apple or the EU, I guess we will know soon enough.

This is awesome.

 

[Seoras]

That's one perspective, but not the only one.

Another is that the iOS world will become like Windows, and in some ways like macOS, where apps, and entire app marketplaces, are eventually abandoned because they just couldn't make a go of it. That's the piece that developers have taken for granted with the App Store. They don't have to worry about the "health" of the marketplace that they distribute apps through. They don't have to worry about payment processing, support/help desks, etc. This is what the 30% has always paid for. Now they'll be on their own, and the true cost of developing, distributing and supporting apps will become real.

Yep. App Developer here who lives off the Apple App store. Couldn't have said it better myself. Wish Europe good luck in their new found "freedom" but I won't be publishing anything on any other app store but =THE= App Store.
I can see the likes of Epic, Spotify and Facebook trying to break the vetting and payment system and they can b...ger off and do that but I like things just the way they are, as an iOS user and as an iOS developer. 15% by the way, not 30%. I wish it was 30% because I'd be retiring end of this year if I entered those heavenly realms of earnings.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

This is awesome.

No it is not. Simply what is suggested would not be good for Apple. But hey, maybe that is the only way … who knows.

I believe that the EU will take note on the obvious: Apple new rules gives once again Apple App Store significant advantage over any other alternative App Store that might be for hundreds of millions of device owners for no other reason but the device supplier policy. At many levels. Just to name one hosting free or freemium apps on third party App Stores or any other delivery medium economically not viable given Apple Rules, making it only viable within the confinements of Apple App Store. Not to mention, the requirement that an App is still to be provided by an App Store, not directly by the developer as it happens with major OSss

This is a typical consequence of tying business models of Apple App Store to the decice, iPhone, which may be considered illegal, context depending is anti-competition behaviour. Don’t think Internet gate keepers will be allowed such practice regardless of how one gets to be one.

Will see how this unfolds.

 

[gavroche]

Yes, we have already had multiple apocalypses due to being able to install apps on macs and jailbroken iphones that don’t pay tithes to Apple. I don’t know how we will survive. I can’t think of a worse thing that’s happened to Europeans in the last years 🙄

Finding and installing apps on my Mac is a pita compared to iOS. On the phone I search the App Store. It’s easy, it’s safe, and it’s easy to keep track of installed apps, subscriptions, and uninstall. But on my Mac, I have to search for apps on a web browser… and navigate to random sites that I have no idea how legit they are. Even legit apps are usually available from multiple download sites… some of which are not safe. There is no unified review system to get an idea how good the software is. I have to pay for the software to each app maker, handle subscriptions there, and use whatever uninstall options they have.
Say what you will…. But it is all far easier, and safer, on iOS.

 

[breenmask]

If you look over and Android where side loading has been possible for years, you'll notice that almost all the big apps are in the Google Play store.

Why?

Because Android doesn't bring in nearly as much money as the Apple App Store so there's no point in investing in infrastructure that doesn't yield ROI.

But if Apple does it, it suddenly makes sense to leave Play/Apple App Store. See how Epic risked it with Fortnite.

 

[Naraxus]

No, but it does refute the argument that I can choose to ignore the presence of third party app stores and continue using the iOS App Store and won’t be negatively impacted in any way.

This is what I have always found disingenuous about all these arguments. You all make it sound like it’s pure upside and that users won’t be inconvenienced in the slightest but then when I point out certain possible drawbacks, I am suddenly told to just suck it.

You all can’t even be honest and upfront about the potential ramifications here.

No. It doesn't refute anything.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

That's one perspective, but not the only one.

Another is that the iOS world will become like Windows, and in some ways like macOS, where apps, and entire app marketplaces, are eventually abandoned because they just couldn't make a go of it. That's the piece that developers have taken for granted with the App Store. They don't have to worry about the "health" of the marketplace that they distribute apps through. They don't have to worry about payment processing, support/help desks, etc. This is what the 30% has always paid for. Now they'll be on their own, and the true cost of developing, distributing and supporting apps will become real.

Most software I download for my Mac doesn't come from any marketplace at all. It comes as a direct installer download from the company who makes the software. Apple is completely left out of the entire process. No tithes, no "security checks", no censorship, no delays waiting for Apple's ineffective, and random process. But wait, how do I trust it? Let's say I want a copy of Blackmagic Studio's Davinci Resolve.... do you really think I shouldn't trust such a huge name in the industry?

Most tools/libraries/plugins I use for software dev, are FOSS, and thus vetted by the mega-nerd portion of the user base, and thus far far safer than anything that passes through Apple's randomly ineffective vetting, and I download it either direct, or from "stores" (in a very loose meaning) such as npmjs.com.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

So it begins... mark my words, with this step, iOS world will awake to life and freedom.

As a Mac user first, I'm rejoiced. Sadly I don't live in EU so I've to wait more.

Yeah, with iOS so damned walled gardened, I have been on the fence about switching from iPhones for years. Finally switched to a Pixel 8 last year, and wow, what an eye opener. I am in zero hurry to return to iPhones, and especially to iOS, which has been left in the dust by the features of Android phones now. As for the hardware, the best Android phones (Pixels and the top Samsungs IMO) are well and truly a match for iPhones now. Some hardware features are better, some more or less the same, and some not quite as good, it's pretty much horses for courses.

 

[mrochester]

Yeah, with iOS so damned walled gardened, I have been on the fence about switching from iPhones for years. Finally switched to a Pixel 8 last year, and wow, what an eye opener. I am in zero hurry to return to iPhones, and especially to iOS, which has been left in the dust by the features of Android phones now. As for the hardware, the best Android phones (Pixels and the top Samsungs IMO) are well and truly a match for iPhones now. Some hardware features are better, some more or less the same, and some not quite as good, it's pretty much horses for courses.

Absolutely it’s horses for courses. I couldn’t get over the disgust id feel using a Google product.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Absolutely it’s horses for courses. I couldn’t get over the disgust id feel using a Google product.

Fair enough.

I personally feel like I don't trust any of the corporations much, and Apple is definitely not an exception.

I do wistfully yearn for the days when Google's motto was "Do no evil."

Just as I wistfully yearn for "It just works."

Plus, as far as Apple is concerned, it's not just a lack of trust, I find their greed so extreme that I just don't even like Apple anymore, even though I still love my MacBook Pro, and the wonderful macOS (even though it is slowly deteriorating with more and more power features being removed with each iteration).

I also never put anything on the internet that I wouldn't want some bot scanning for ad-word key words, or other such nefarious purposes. (without first encrypting it myself with an open source encryption tool, such as PGP or VeraCrypt). Thus, basically, I just don't care.

I also use ad blockers extensively, so never see the targeted ads anyway.

 

[mrochester]

Fair enough.

I personally feel like I don't trust any of the corporations much, and Apple is definitely not an exception.

I do wistfully yearn for the days when Google's motto was "Do no evil."

Just as I wistfully yearn for "It just works."

Plus, as far as Apple is concerned, it's not just a lack of trust, I find their greed so extreme that I just don't even like Apple anymore, even though I still love my MacBook Pro, and the wonderful macOS (even though it is slowly deteriorating with more and more power features being removed with each iteration).

I also never put anything on the internet that I wouldn't want some bot scanning for ad-word key words, or other such nefarious purposes. (without first encrypting it myself with an open source encryption tool, such as PGP or VeraCrypt). Thus, basically, I just don't care.

I also use ad blockers extensively, so never see the targeted ads anyway.

Yeah it’s googles anticompetitive business practices and their targeted advertising business model that makes me think the world would be a better place without Google (and facebook, TikTok and the other surveillance capitalist companies).

Apple is very tame in comparison to those monsters. At least Apple and my interests align more than they differ unlike with Google where it feels like open hostility towards us consumers.

 

[wanha]

Because Android doesn't bring in nearly as much money as the Apple App Store so there's no point in investing in infrastructure that doesn't yield ROI.

But if Apple does it, it suddenly makes sense to leave Play/Apple App Store. See how Epic risked it with Fortnite.

Do you really think the majority of users will look for new apps outside the official App Store?

Especially if Apple is not promoting, endorsing it, or making the process all that straight forward.

 

[dwaite]

It‘s malicious in charging a „Core Technology Fee“ that has supposedly nothing to do with the choice of distribution/store - but then not charging it for apps on their own store. Thereby steering if not (economically) forcing many developers to staying with the old business terms.

I actually suspect they crafted the EU terms partly around their existing financials - such that they could show the App Store could operate under the pre-existing terms if it were an independent entity participating under the new EU terms. That would mean the App Store would pay the CTF for the install on every EU phone, that it would pay any CTF for apps which were exclusive to the App Store, and would take a 15-30% cut of in-app purchases/subscriptions.

Of course, breaking even with such an App Store would still mean they would be giving a ton of money to Apple proper for the CTF.

 

[JSDK]

No there won't. Marketplace Apps have to be downloaded from the developer's website and are not allowed in Apple's App Store.

Even better. Well, people REALLY have to make an effort to sideload apps - i.e. that people won't accidentally sideload "dangerous" apps. The problem is solved.

 

[Coyley]

Does this mean that we will get Xbox Game Pass app which will allow the installation of games directly on the device. Rather than just using Xcloud?

 

[JSDK]

We don't want more options. We want simplicity. Simplicity means limited options.

Then it's lucky you have a choice. It's simple - don't sideload an App Marketplace and don't download apps from it.

 

[mrochester]

Then it's lucky you have a choice. It's simple - don't sideload an App Marketplace and don't download apps from it.

The only will be if an app you want to use doesn’t appear in the store you want to use.

 

[TundraKing]

Frankly I don't see much that changes here. I'm not a developer but the reports I've seen indicate that Apple's revenue stream doesn't take much of a hit at all given the non negotiable "download" fees which can rack up to huge amounts for popular apps. It seems that Apple still fully controls the "certification" process ... the only thing different is that you can go to "alternative marketplaces" (whatever that means) to get apps.

Maybe someone can clarify what truly changes for Apple and the public and does it really remove the "walled garden"

The real question is.... Just like for Windows and Mac applications, can an individual, single developer create an app and post it on their own web page for download and install (free or for sale) without going thru any other site? If not this "change" seems to be a sham and I'm surprised the EU agreed to this "solution"

 

[Antoniosmalakia]

Do we know how Apple plan on implementing this release of iOS, and will we be able to fool our phones into thinking we're in the EU to try it out?

 

[mrochester]

Frankly I don't see much that changes here. I'm not a developer but the reports I've seen indicate that Apple's revenue stream doesn't take much of a hit at all given the non negotiable "download" fees which can rack up to huge amounts for popular apps. It seems that Apple still fully controls the "certification" process ... the only thing different is that you can go to "alternative marketplaces" (whatever that means) to get apps.

Maybe someone can clarify what truly changes for Apple and the public and does it really remove the "walled garden"

The real question is.... Just like for Windows and Mac applications, can an individual, single developer create an app and post it on their own web page for download and install (free or for sale) without going thru any other site? If not this "change" seems to be a sham and I'm surprised the EU agreed to this "solution"

The whole point of the DMA is to increase competition in the respective markets. This is why the ability to have alternative app stores to purchase apps from is the solution (to compete with the Apple App Store). The regulation isn’t just to make it a free-for-all.

 

[darkpaw]

Do we know how Apple plan on implementing this release of iOS, and will we be able to fool our phones into thinking we're in the EU to try it out?

Unlikely. You'll have to be signed into iOS with an Apple ID that's based in one of the 27 EU countries.

Right now, the App Store app on iOS allows you to install apps from Apple's selection. What this change does is allow developers to create their own App Store apps with their own selection of apps. It would seem to me that when iOS 17.4 is released these new App Store apps will not be available for download from Apple's App Store app unless your Apple ID is based in the EU.

Whether you can somehow trick iOS 17.4 into showing those other App Store apps, is unknown but highly unlikely.

 

[bn-7bc]

Well you said it yourself, the Apple app store is filled with crap. Now you or anyone else could open and host your own app store with carefully curated quality content. Over time you build a reputation for only hosting the best and become the go-to for all good things. That's the point.

I think these alernayive app stores ( wirge the exception of ms and epuc) will be mostly populated with apps in the following categories : emulators and web browsers not using uIwebview ( ie webkit). that is appa that has no chance of ever getting into the apple app store no matter what fee they pay

 

[TundraKing]

The whole point of the DMA is to increase competition in the respective markets. This is why the ability to have alternative app stores to purchase apps from is the solution (to compete with the Apple App Store). The regulation isn’t just to make it a free-for-all.

What Apple is implementing regarding tweaks to their app distribution model really does little to "increase competition" as they still hold "veto power" over what is offered and still scrape off revenue from every app installed anywhere. Your "free for all" characterization is odd considering that is how nearly all software has been marketed and distributed on other platforms (Linux, Windows, MacOS, etc...) since personal computing began 50+ years ago.

Separate regulations that we are seeing from the EU like forcing Apple to open up WHAT apps have to comply with (ie. browsers not needing to use the Safari engine) is more likely to open up the platform to innovation than this move ever will.

 

[djphat2000]

No it is not. Simply what is suggested would not be good for Apple. But hey, maybe that is the only way … who knows.

I believe that the EU will take note on the obvious: Apple new rules gives once again Apple App Store significant advantage over any other alternative App Store that might be for hundreds of millions of device owners for no other reason but the device supplier policy. At many levels. Just to name one hosting free or freemium apps on third party App Stores or any other delivery medium economically not viable given Apple Rules, making it only viable within the confinements of Apple App Store. Not to mention, the requirement that an App is still to be provided by an App Store, not directly by the developer as it happens with major OSss

From what I could tell from the EU law. They never stated Apple wasn't allowed to collect fees or any other payments on the platform, even from outside the AppStore. Just that they had to allow alternate ways to get apps installed. AKA side loading is "a" means or an alternate store. But, not specifying that it has to be just like say Mac OS or Windows. Go to a site and download. Install whatever you want.

I'm willing to bet that if this works out well in the EU. Apple will eventually do this world wide. Since it will preempt any other country from making similar EU laws. And limits 3rd party AppStores to what I would consider reputable and safe companies. That already have the infrastructure to support this, and can handle the costs associated with it. They already have subscriptions for existing customers of their services today. And a vested interesting keeping up to date with what Apple is doing with their hardware and software. So any updates Apple makes, they will adjust to them quickly enough to ensure they continue to operate on the platform safely. Those companies would be the likes of Microsoft, Amazon, Google, maybe even EPIC or Steam.

Again, this isn't for anyone to go in and do what they want. Apple still has a right to the IP and technology they created. And the safety of the devices they sell to the public. Many will not like the terms. And it will prevent many from attempting to create their own stores. But the ability for it exists as it was deemed to.