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Expensive and bloated… Like the 16e?
Sir if you’re going to use examples of things being expensive and bloated, why on earth would you choose the least expensive and least bloated iPhone they make?
It’s literally, along with the recent 11th generation iPad, the simplest iOS device that they make.
Because it is the cheapest now, but I’d say take a look at their past and what the device represents.

It is a device that lacks features and costs substantially more than the iPhone SE.

Okay let’s give some leeway to the price for inflation. What did the price jump explain and provide in terms of value as a product?
 
What did the price jump explain and provide in terms of value as a product?
The previous generation SE had the worst battery life of the lineup, the new one has the second best.
The previous generation had a display straight out of 2014, the new one has a display from at least this decade.
The previous SE had a camera straight from 2017, the new one has a mixture of a camera from 2020, 2022 and 2024. Apparently in bright lighting it’s about the same as the regular 16, in low lighting It’s closer to a 13, but either way it’s an improvement with four times the resolution as the previous 2017 era sensor.
It uses a processor from 2024 instead of a processor from 2021
It has the more modern gesture based iOS experience.
It has significantly better speakers than the previous SE.
It has support for more formats like Dolby Atmos and HDR.
Basically the difference is the previous one was a 2017 phone trying to survive in a 2024 market, the new one is a 2020s era phone trying to survive in… The 2020s.
 
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Will take a very long time, if ever for Apple to release such a product. 2030 will be the earliest. Would like to see AR glasses.
 
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With current tech, this is just not feasible. Based on industry reports and research papers, it won't be ready for mass market until 2029 at the earliest and likely not until 3032, or later...
What's not feasible depends very much on "what" is...

What are these things? ONE version (which who knows, Apple may even ship) are something very different from what people seem to have in mind. Think "display" and NOTHING more.

CES 2025 had dozens of these. I tried many of them. They all suck -- but are close to not sucking.
One primary use case apparently is using them as a display. So think: you plug these into your laptop and you get a screen that's "different" from the laptop screen. Is it better? Well...
Once you start to think through this, you see the issues. How do you type? Well, you need to keep your laptop open. At which point why bother? If you fly a lot, and care about this, you can make it work, with a small BT keyboard. My brother is obsessed with this use case, but he was unenthusiastic about any model at CES. In all of them the screen was just lousy; the all see to be 1080p, no 4K yet, slightly misaligned, just not something you want to read a lot. Maybe OK for movie watching.

Another use case is the supposed smart glasses where you get a small screen and toggle a button or something on the stem to flip through stuff you see. To me this looks like a far far inferior version of an Apple Watch.

I've no doubt Apple could create either of these artifacts. But there is no reason whatever for them to do so!
When I think of what the cheap space looks like vs Vision Pro, I personally can't see where Apple can compromise much without destroying the value proposition.

MAYBE there's a market for something that's
- basically a display (no camera and all the camera-enabled stuff)
- maybe connects via wireless rather than a cable (shorter battery life but more convenient)
- provides 4K or better and a high quality display not the current lousy 1080p.

This is not smart glasses so much as a Studio Display in a very different form factor. More expensive than the CES glasses, but say half the price of Vision Pro.
My brother would buy these, and maybe that's a large enough target market, and a way to amortize the cost of the display optics over more units?
 
It probably would be normal glasses with an Apple logo sticked onto it with a promise of having the features in a year to delayed to a couple of years like Apple Intelligence.
I want my money back for my iPhone 16 pro max Tim Cook

Buy on features not promises. Oldest guideline of the tech world. Even you tubers were telling people to not buy the iPhone on the hope of AI.
 
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Buy on features not promises. Oldest guideline of the tech world. Even you tubers were telling people to not buy the iPhone on the hope of AI.
Yes thats my fault in this regard for sure. I mean I’m satisfied jumping from the 14 pro to this. However I’m still ticked off a lot due to the whole AI malarkey.
 
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I think they should. I've been using my Meta glasses for over a year now, they're simply fantastic. Everyone, including my wife and her friends - love them and want to buy their own. They've proven to be a product that gets everyday folk, into AR, more than VR headsets have.
 
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The previous generation SE had the worst battery life of the lineup, the new one has the second best.
The previous generation had a display straight out of 2014, the new one has a display from at least this decade.
The previous SE had a camera straight from 2017, the new one has a mixture of a camera from 2020, 2022 and 2024. Apparently in bright lighting it’s about the same as the regular 16, in low lighting It’s closer to a 13, but either way it’s an improvement with four times the resolution as the previous 2017 era sensor.
It uses a processor from 2024 instead of a processor from 2021
It has the more modern gesture based iOS experience.
It has significantly better speakers than the previous SE.
It has support for more formats like Dolby Atmos and HDR.
Basically the difference is the previous one was a 2017 phone trying to survive in a 2024 market, the new one is a 2020s era phone trying to survive in… The 2020s.
Quite honestly though…on a phone of that size and to the average consumer…will they notice?
 
Do you have a specific quote you’re referring to where Apple lied? The goal of all advertising is to make a product seem much greater than it is. But “great”, “amazing”, etc—these things are subjective, so it’s not lying nor illegal. The line is when they give false objective information. Eg. if they said they would release AppleI by a certain time but they do not, then that would be objectively false information. Still probably not “lying” as that would imply intent, but false.
Yes. The whole point of on device Apple intelligence like Bella Ramsey ads where she asks who was the guy I met two weeks ago. And it responds with her name. Or what time is my mom’s flight landing. They just said to limited media members that it’s not coming until the following year. Failing is possible even for Apple, so they should admit their mistakes and offer a one-month window for returns of all iPhones sold with the promise of these features. It should hurt Apple and Tim because if they didn’t spend ten years and $10B on a canceled car this could have been done years ago. Furthermore, they’re still selling devices that don’t do any AI because they lacked the RAM. They are run by bean counters. They should be run by innovators. Bean counters are great at short term but innovation is what makes the long run viable and companies going concerns.
 
Studies HAVE SHOWN that people can't tell the difference on very large TVs at close range. Most people are just guessing if it's better or not.

Your points are kinda all over the place. With TV's, most people would struggle to find room for a 75" TV let alone a whole wall so chasing larger TV's or the need for 8k is becoming a losing battle.

If you want higher dynamic range or higher pixel counts for VR, sure that can improve but let's be honest for once and admit that is a tiny market and will be for the foreseeable future.

Lastly, I never said Apple is at the end of technological advancement. But from a consumer-tech standpoint, game changing break throughs are going to be fewer and farther between. A tech product company like Apple may find itself struggling to find ways to entice people to buy products at a rate consumers have in the past.

That study showed 8k having a slight edge. While 4k=8k was the most common response, the average response for every clip favored the 8k display.

But this doesn't matter as you missed my point, which was that companies (especially Apple) are choosing to maximize returns over pursuing technological innovation. Back to TVs; by focusing only on resolution you're missing the forest for the trees. Back when CRTs were the norm, no one could imagine TVs as large as we have now, because the technology made large TVs too unwieldy, heavy and expensive. When I said the theoretical max size for a TV is the size of your wall, I wasn't imagining scaling up an OLED TV to be wall size. That would be dumb (and wouldn't fit through a door). I thought I made that clear enough by pointing out we'd need major tech advancements, but I guess not. I was imagining something like digital wallpaper, or in the interim, the rollable display tech we've seen. Innovation doesn't simply scaling up (or down) existing design elements, but reimagining what something can be altogether. If Apple's out of ideas it's not for lack of areas to innovate on.

If you want higher dynamic range or higher pixel counts for VR, sure that can improve but let's be honest for once and admit that is a tiny market and will be for the foreseeable future.

So was the smartphone, until it wasn't. People in general have terrible imaginations for what the future holds (myself included). Quite honestly, some people's "foreseeable future" is just next week. The AR glasses Meta showed off are projected to be about 10 years away, that's close enough to be relevant for a company like Apple, but far enough that your typical consumer will have no idea what the tech will look like.

This goes for TVs as well as VR/AR. If you think you know what TVs of the future will look like based on what we have today, I'll confidently say you're wrong, although I wont know how you're wrong because my guess would be wrong as well.

Apple was viewed as more of an innovative company under Jobs because that's where his focus was, where he wanted Apple's focus to be. It's not where Cook's focus is, and it's not because the tech has matured to the point where innovation is hard to come by. He's just channeling that innovation energy into maximizing revenue and stock growth to the point where over 90% of Apple's wealth was created under Tim Cook's leadership, despite the most innovative new product category under his leadership being the Watch. At this point anyway... we'll see where Apple Vision is in a few years.
 
What's not feasible depends very much on "what" is...

What are these things? ONE version (which who knows, Apple may even ship) are something very different from what people seem to have in mind. Think "display" and NOTHING more.

CES 2025 had dozens of these. I tried many of them. They all suck -- but are close to not sucking.
One primary use case apparently is using them as a display. So think: you plug these into your laptop and you get a screen that's "different" from the laptop screen. Is it better? Well...
Once you start to think through this, you see the issues. How do you type? Well, you need to keep your laptop open. At which point why bother? If you fly a lot, and care about this, you can make it work, with a small BT keyboard. My brother is obsessed with this use case, but he was unenthusiastic about any model at CES. In all of them the screen was just lousy; the all see to be 1080p, no 4K yet, slightly misaligned, just not something you want to read a lot. Maybe OK for movie watching.

Another use case is the supposed smart glasses where you get a small screen and toggle a button or something on the stem to flip through stuff you see. To me this looks like a far far inferior version of an Apple Watch.

I've no doubt Apple could create either of these artifacts. But there is no reason whatever for them to do so!
When I think of what the cheap space looks like vs Vision Pro, I personally can't see where Apple can compromise much without destroying the value proposition.

MAYBE there's a market for something that's
- basically a display (no camera and all the camera-enabled stuff)
- maybe connects via wireless rather than a cable (shorter battery life but more convenient)
- provides 4K or better and a high quality display not the current lousy 1080p.

This is not smart glasses so much as a Studio Display in a very different form factor. More expensive than the CES glasses, but say half the price of Vision Pro.
My brother would buy these, and maybe that's a large enough target market, and a way to amortize the cost of the display optics over more units?
You're talking about "pass through" lenses tech, rather than cameras. Unfortunately, right now that tech is mostly still in the labs and won't be ready before 2028, at which point it will be expensive and with a limited FOV.

Additionally, to have the processing capability to really go mainstream, you need a 10x jump at a fraction of the energy and heat output of what we have today.

Apple could do the same thing as they did with the Vision Pro and release a half-baked product that uses cameras and does nothing but overlay your phone with some gimmicky things included, just so they can say they released a product in the space, but it won't sell well and will be quite expensive.
 
I think they should. I've been using my Meta glasses for over a year now, they're simply fantastic. Everyone, including my wife and her friends - love them and want to buy their own. They've proven to be a product that gets everyday folk, into AR, more than VR headsets have.
I agree wholeheartedly, have had my Raybans for 3 weeks and everyone wants a pair after seeing them.
 
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With all the work Apple put into the AVP, the Meta glasses have been far more interesting to me at least
Apples and oranges in capabilities and use cases being distinct form factors.
with little overlap beyond being both spatial computing devices technically

Meta’s glasses don’t even have a user consumable display—let alone able to consume traditional and non-traditional content in a prosumer level way.
 
The AVP is a perfect example of that. Apple treated that thing like the 3D Touch 🤣. But it's the same with Apple Intelligence, rather than taking their time to come up with something truly useful and they rushed out a bunch of trash and tried to sell it like it was next best thing....and we are still waiting. These last few product launches of AI and AVP have been really interesting to watch and so different from the old Apple.
That’s not true. Vision Pro is a product in which audiences it’s not for feel a type of way not having good options as it is (besides Meta’s headsets).

Existing options aren’t executed anywhere close to the ideal baselines of a good/ideal spatial computing experiences chasing the sales of masses at price points yielding to people who have little value of the category and sold at a loss.

The Vision Pro is at a completely different end of the spectrum than such devices they’ve settled with and aligns with Apple’s existing prosumer products that are not for most people and unjustifiable for people with modest interest or willingness to invest in the product carries.

It would be like a modest car (Honda Civic) driver in love with Apple getting into the EV car but only having then only offer the equivalent to a Porsche 911 EV option overkill for their needs, enthusiasm for electric cars, and not at all affordable to them.

From there, they complain that it’s DOA for not reaching mass car sales volumes when it never was intended to in the first place focusing on a good EV experience that moved things forward for premium driving experiences that other EV manufacturers weren’t willing to do with their emerging EV investments rather than something for the masses
 
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The tech world has runway for whatever hardware they want to chase. The issue is just capitalism’s unending desire for more. Tech stocks are viewed as growth stocks where returns are expected to be greater every year. That’s not sustainable, but they’d be fine if dividends were used as intended.

Take your 4k vs 8k example. Studies have not shown that people can’t resolve the difference between 4k and 8k. They’ve shown that people can’t see the difference between 4k and 8k when looking at a standard sized TV at a typical viewing distance. But what if the TVs got bigger? The theoretical max size of a TV is your entire wall. 4k won’t cut it for that, but a host of technology advancements, innovative ideas and cost savings are needed to make something like that an interesting proposition. They are of course also chasing capabilities other than resolution as well. Take high dynamic range as an example. There’s plenty of runway for TVs to evolve, even if current televisions don’t need greater pixel density. VR of course still does need greater pixel density (at a lower cost) so there’s still plenty of reasons to chase advancements in pixel density as well.

We’re nowhere near the end of technological advancement, we’re just in late stage capitalism where investors squeeze the life out of everything. Apple has never stopped innovating, they’ve just shifted from technology innovation to innovation in revenue generation (specifically in services). That choice was made to maximize returns, not because technical innovation is approaching the end of its usefulness. Apple’s largest interest in smart homes will probably be camera feeds because that’s something they can charge a monthly fee for, as proven by Ring and others.
High PPI is very much noticeable and validated for decades as being invaluable by mobile devices and HCI computer science.

HCI and UX academia experts/learners beyond middle school also knows better than to inflate the importance of resolution with studies of pixel density.

It’s essential knowledge content producing professionally.

8K+ TVs is merely cost prohibitive across the supply chain of content and the opportunity costs of not dealing with that making panels for mobile devices that are also more locked down than larger devices
 
Where is the tech world headed overall? It feels like they are running out runway. Everything kinda seems like it's reaching its peak.

With TV's, they have done studies to show that the average person can't tell the difference between 4k and 8k. The human eye can't see past 120Hz refresh rates. TV's are huge now and super bright with amazing black levels and color gamuts.

Cameras are now all moving to 40+mp and 4k120p recording. More than the average person will ever need.

The new M4 MacBook Air in its base configuration can easily edit 4k footage and will be more than 95% users will ever need for watching YouTube and looking at social media for 5+ years.

All these things can have minor upgrades but nothing that would warrant a large scale shift in tech. I think tech companies are really going to struggle to get people to buy their goods moving forward as there simply isn't a reason too. CES the last few years has been utterly pathetic in showing off anything game changing or even interesting for that matter.

It also seems that's why Apple is getting in to the home tech space. A space they have neglected and even seemingly looked down on, bc it's one of the few markets left to still sell hardware in. I don't know but it feels like the tech world is in for some troubling times as we head into the next decade.
…You need at least 5K and 6K for 27” and 32” panels to even achieve high PPI on such panels; modern professionals cameras are more targeting 6K and 8K+ for creative professionals to be able to produce high PPI content at volume for traditional device platforms finally.

4K TVs can get away with their mediocre PPI a monitor, mobile device, and spatial computing hardware cannot because the far viewing distances they’re designed to be used with.

People can absolutely tell the difference and hare it when such TVs are used up close. HCI common sense.

Display Standards also are unapologetically paving the way for 5K-16K to correctly succeed 4K which was NEVER the be-all resolution but convenient for panel manufacturers to get away with at scale.

There’s even 5K+ adult entertainment by major suppliers of that industry with that industry even know better.

4K@120hz is more for action sports and baseline (bare minimum HFR) to latently not encourage further stagnation with 720p and 1080p use to merely save costs and do the bare minimum budget users are still willing to be complacent with.

Tech involving screens is inevitably heading towards more expensive initial early adopter rounds of breakthrough new technology in order to be distinctfully better and on par with status quo when they launch.

Spatial computing for example requires VERY dense panels that necessitates many more pixels than what people are willing to settle with on traditional displays.

As a result, spatial computing devices have to be more expensive and computationally expensive than traditional devices to be on par and surpass the visual fidelity of traditional devices

It’s important for spatial computing hardware to be pixel dense as poor picture quality such as making out pixels is much more noticeable with a screen that so close to your eyes.

The Vision Pro and upcoming headsets have a PPI of 3000+ and need more nuanced measures of pixel density such as PPD to understand why it’s so distinctfully expensive for a sharp visual experience to be achieved with spatial computing hardware.

New tech like foldable phones, EVs, spatial computing hardware, no-glasses 3D/AR panels, ray-tracing-by-default AAA gaming, and even airlesss basketballs all necessitate higher costs than status quo to debut with merit at or above status quo.

The average person naively thinks innovation starts making such things available to masses at first easier than historically.

Social media and internet communities such as this very forum gives such opinions and thoughts far more visibility than ever before regardless how naive or unfeasible such sentiments are.
 
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There’s no need for Apple to overthink this. Release an Apple analogue to the Meta Ray-Bans with all the quality-of-life improvements that direct integration with iOS would bring, along with somewhat better cameras and audio. Simple as that. They’ll fly off the shelves.
Agreed. I was gifted the Meta Ray Bans, and they are kinda fun. The biggest drag is the weakness of integration with the rest of my digital life. Meta AI answers aren't as important as being in 2 way contact with my photos, location, calendar, contacts, messaging, etc etc. I was reluctant even about letting Meta in as far as I have. I like having 2-way audio without AirPods in, taking quick photos & video without holding iPhone, but if it was my apple environment it would Bothe be more efficient and more secure/private.
 
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