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Umm... but... IBM and MSFT are priced with P/E > 14. AAPL is now priced with P/E 30% below that. By your argument, AAPL is undervalued then.

IBM reported today that its profits are growing:

"Overall, IBM reported a profit of $5.83 billion, or $5.13 a share, up from $5.49 billion or $4.62 a share a year earlier."

They offered guidance for the future which exceeds expectations:

"For the new year, IBM projected operating earnings of at least $16.70 a share. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters most recently predicted $16.63 a share. The company said it is on “well on track” toward its long-term road map for operating earnings of at least $20 in 2015."


Apple reported today that its profits are flat, and refused to give guidance for next quarter's profits.

IMO, Apple should rightly have a significantly lower P/E than IBM.
 
Is this a metaphor for early 21st century capitalism? Apple is making huge amounts of cash, they give good value to their customers, and everything's going fine. So the barons of Wall Street take billions out of their stock value and contribute NOTHING. Why is Apple ON the stock market, by the way?

As a means of raising capital.
 
IBM reported today that its profits are growing:

"Overall, IBM reported a profit of $5.83 billion, or $5.13 a share, up from $5.49 billion or $4.62 a share a year earlier."

They offered guidance for the future which exceeds expectations:

"For the new year, IBM projected operating earnings of at least $16.70 a share. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters most recently predicted $16.63 a share. The company said it is on “well on track” toward its long-term road map for operating earnings of at least $20 in 2015."


Apple reported today that its profits are flat, and refused to give guidance for next quarter's profits.

IMO, Apple should rightly have a significantly lower P/E than IBM.

Sorry, but check the actual numbers. Apple is growing faster than IBM: has been recently, is now, and expects to be in the future. Enough said.
 
Sorry, but check the actual numbers. Apple is growing faster than IBM: has been recently, is now, and expects to be in the future. Enough said.

No, it's definitely not.

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Is inflation not robbery? :rolleyes:

Do you eat or drive anywhere?

Inflation = taxing, essentially, and it also encourages people to spend money. If you're going to complain about high taxes, fine, I agree, but don't complain about taxing in general.
 
IBM reported today that its profits are growing:

"Overall, IBM reported a profit of $5.83 billion, or $5.13 a share, up from $5.49 billion or $4.62 a share a year earlier."

They offered guidance for the future which exceeds expectations:

"For the new year, IBM projected operating earnings of at least $16.70 a share. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters most recently predicted $16.63 a share. The company said it is on “well on track” toward its long-term road map for operating earnings of at least $20 in 2015."


Apple reported today that its profits are flat, and refused to give guidance for next quarter's profits.

IMO, Apple should rightly have a significantly lower P/E than IBM.

Its like talking to squirrels. You're wasting your time. They don't get it.
 
Buying Apple stocks is one step below going to a casino in Vegas. You guys and gals will learn the hard way. With Steve Jobs dead Tim does not have what it takes to create something totally new on his own.

Tim: Let's shrink Steve's iPad 2 and call it iPad mini.

Tim: Let's add 0.5" to Steve's iPhone 4 and call it iPhone 5.

Tim: Let's increase the resolution on Steve's iPad 2.

Tim: Let's redesign Steve's iPod touch.

Tim: Let's redesign Steve's Macbook.

Tim: Let's redesign Steve's iMac.

Tim: Let's add maps to Steve's iOS.

Tim: Let's carry out Steve's thermonuclear war.


Yup, there's real innovation going on at Apple.
 
Pages - Please Define academic formatting please.

Sure,

1. Center Page Vertically (APA or MLA format style)
2. Index creation
3. Citation management
4. Handling captions
5. File conversion issues

You are aware that the app that everyone uses (Papers...EndNote too for people who are stuck) is compatible with iWork, right? Frankly, I'm surprised you're using Word instead of Latex if these are issues for you. Sniping Pages and giving Word a pass is really quite funny.

Numbers - Please Define academic features please.

1. Sorting affects all columns, regardless of the selection, making it difficult to sort a portion of your data.

2. Cannot lock cells within a table to prevent modification.

3. Much slower than Excel on larger worksheets

4. File conversion issues.

And I can give you a list of features that Numbers does significantly better than Excel. Graphing is significantly easier for one. Did you remember when Excel lost the ability to have arbitrary error bars on graphs and instead insisted on you using their stddev calculation? That was a blast. Excel for stats in general is a huge pain. And no, Numbers isn't any better. Hence why there are better stats programs out there. I'd love it if Numbers could do this but again, giving Excel a pass for these issues just smacks of bias.

iWeb was seen as a selling point because it was included in the price of the machine and worked with the other software already included. No incompatibility issues to worry about.

Are you one of those people who think that the bloatware installed on all Windows PCs is a value added experience or whatever they're calling it these days? Oh man, am I talking to a Best Buy rep? Please say yes.

Students are required in many disciplines to have a working knowledge of web page creation, therefore, iWeb was seen as saving the student from having to research and purchase additional web page creation software. The same logic worked for many small businesses.

Oh wow. You think iWeb teaches web creation. I'm in the field of Biology and this is just funny. All the experiments we did over the last decade to try to use basic web technology to help teach never included the requirement to be able to code HTML. I agree that the web provides a unique opportunity when it comes to teaching but you might as well be arguing that Apple should have bought out Anglefire because everyone makes their own little webpages. I sorry, but you're really reaching with this argument. If you want to fill out your list of reasons why Apple is doomed because you don't like Apple for whatever reason please put more effort into it?

iMovie and iDvd

Classrooms are far different than they were even five years ago. Multimedia presentations in High Definition are the norm. Students and clients are demanding the best quality possible for their output. Why shouldn't they with cheap digital cameras widely available. Windows users hand in presentations in full 1080 60p.

Indeed classrooms are more different. I remember when we bought some pretty high end stuff to try to experiment with using multimedia. It didn't work out so well for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest issues is opportunity. Think about this. What does nearly every student at the undergraduate level have at this point? A smartphone. We should be using the tool they have on hand to meet the students half way. It really is quite interesting but I really doubt you want to talk about this since it is contrary to your Apple is evil requirement.

Contrary to Apple's statements and wishes optical is far from dead in both academia, the home and business. A quick look at MacRumors own forums should put that issue to rest. The optical debate has been one of the most commented topics on this entire board.

Yup, we send out burned optical media with everyone's materials...5 years ago. These days everything is network based. You do realize you're arguing for the floppy, right? You do remember how that ended, right? You probably don't because you said Apple lacking the ability to burn HD-DVDs was a bad thing. You did get the memo that HD-DVD died, right?

I still have countless requests for a powerful, easy to use flat file database that can be tightly integrated with their word processor for selective offers, specific letters for customers in certain categories and mail merge. This would be a powerful incentive for many small businesses to switch to the mac. Especially since they cannot stand Windows 8.

I thought you were talking academia. Oh I get it. You're just speculating and you have little experience in this area. Hence why iWeb is a value add and it is 100% bad that it was discontinued because reasons. Just a suggestion, don't start an argument only to shift what you're arguing part way through. It tends to make it look like you are intentionally being dishonest.
 
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Buying Apple stocks is one step below going to a casino in Vegas. You guys and gals will learn the hard way. With Steve Jobs dead Tim does not have what it takes to create something totally new on his own.

Tim: Let's shrink Steve's iPad 2 and call it iPad mini.

Tim: Let's add 0.5" to Steve's iPhone 4 and call it iPhone 5.

Tim: Let's increase the resolution on Steve's iPad 2.

Tim: Let's redesign Steve's iPod touch.

Tim: Let's redesign Steve's Macbook.

Tim: Let's redesign Steve's iMac.

Tim: Let's add maps to Steve's iOS.

Tim: Let's carry out Steve's thermonuclear war.


Yup, there's real innovation going on at Apple.

Oh please, Steve Jobs just redesigned other creators' stuff anyway. Apple's more about "doing it right" than innovating and always has been.
 
No, it's definitely not. I agree, but don't complain about taxing in general.


Why not lol, the average serf during Medieval Times paid less taxes than I do today. The Lords of the day didn't have the balls to do what our politicians are doing to us today. :rolleyes:
 
Why not lol, the average serf during Medieval Times paid less taxes than I do today. The Lords of the day didn't have the balls to do what our politicians our doing to us today. :rolleyes:

Actually, they paid more. They basically had to give everything they didn't absolutely need for survival plus a little more in some cases. But really, we need to reduce our spending and taxes. It's a big issue, and I'm sick of hearing about BS about "women's rights" and whatever from our politicians instead of economic solutions. Any time the politicians want to save money (which is rare), the unions get upset, and when they spend money, it's all OK.

Just don't claim any BS like the Feds robbing us or rigging the stock markets unless you have some kind of groundbreaking evidence of the Feds rigging the stock market against us.
 
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While Google and Apple are duking it out on software, they're too different to compare, and their revenue streams come from vastly different sources. Google doesn't care if the user is poor or in the top 1%, as long as they have a Gmail account.

Only thing is a poor person usually doesn't have a Gmail account and if he does, he can't pay for the data plan to access it from his phone. Low end Android handsets are now the new feature phones

Google really has problems monetizing off Android. They really need their Motorola phone to become a hit
 
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Excel is the gold standard for statisticians and financial institutions. Numbers is incredibly useless for these people, and no access to pretty, if ultimately useless, charts will change that.
 
Excel is the gold standard for statisticians and financial institutions. Numbers is incredibly useless for these people, and no access to pretty, if ultimately useless, charts will change that.

Numbers is annoyingly bad for me. I love iWork and use it, but when I occasionally need a spreadsheet, I gotta use Excel.

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I'm long both stocks for over ten years and have the numbers. Do you?

I guess I've had enough monkey business for tonight.

Apple's profits grew $40M YTD. IBM grew much more than that.
 
Only thing is a poor person usually doesn't have a Gmail account and if he does, he can't pay for the data plan to access it from his phone. Low end Android handsets are now the new featureless phone.

Google really has problems monetizing off Android. They really need their Motorola phone to become a hit

It's the same issue that Facebook has with its mobile offerings: it doesn't know how to effectively direct ads and profit from registered accounts, and those low income Android users have to go to a non-mobile outlet for Google to profit from them.
 
Numbers is annoyingly bad for me. I love iWork and use it, but when I occasionally need a spreadsheet, I gotta use Excel.


Number is flat out useless for me. I don't need a graph; I seldom pitch numbers in a PowerPoint presentation. I need an outlet to compute hard numbers, and sometimes incredibly complex quantitative analysis. Excel gets the job done, and Numbers simply doesn't. Apple's minimalist, simple-to-use philosophy that's great for its operating systems is a great detriment to Numbers.
 
Excel is the gold standard for statisticians and financial institutions. Numbers is incredibly useless for these people, and no access to pretty, if ultimately useless, charts will change that.

Not in the sciences it isn't. If you're using Excel then I'm sorry for you. (Again, they actually removed stats features for an entire service pack.)
 
You read it wrong. It said that the growth in profits is flat, not the profits themselves. The derivative of the profits is 1 (constant growth).

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Profits are not flat. And why would sales be up but profits flat? That would suggest extra costs.

Here are the rough graphs that are theoretical and not to-scale (except for the last one):

Apple's total money earned vs time = integral of profits vs time:
Image

Apple's profits vs time:
Image

Apple's CHANGE in PROFITS vs time = derivative of profits vs time:
Image

Notice how the last one is flat at 0. THAT'S what this article is talking about, and that's what the investors are all worried about. It was rising before. All this is based on integration of the profit change vs time and not data, so it's just theory.

But I just realized that the article may be incorrect or unclear. It stated a $40M increase in profits over a year... not sure if it's rounding down to 0 or what. But it said that it was a flat increase in growth (aka profit?). The profits used to go up more than constantly over time.



The article said:

"Apple posted a $13.1 billion profit for the quarter this year compared to a $13.06 billion profit in the same quarter of last year, yielding flat growth year over year. "

ISTM that profits are not growing much faster then 0% YOY. ISTM that the gross amount of profits are about the same as last year, with no significant growth.

Profits used to grow YOY. Currently profits are growing at 0% YOY.

The rate of growth is not flat, it has gone negative. The absolute amount of profit, however, is flat YOY.

Do you disagree? The rate of profit growth is not "flat" or "steady" or "the same as before" Instead, the rate of profit growth has fallen off a cliff, sloping sharply downwards.
 
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