Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
That's good.

This thing shouldn't been allowed in phones in the first place, at least without the option to exclude yourself.

I've looked for CarrierIQ references on my Android phone, I can't find any. Or it only applies to phones sold in the US.
 
Last edited:
Google sells you to the advertisers. You are the product, the advertisers are the customers. The advertisers, as the customer, want as much information about you, the product, as they can get. Companies tend to do what keeps the customer happy.

If I use an Android phone, what is sold to advertisers?
 
Why would you want to remove it? It was used as intended - for diagnostics and not logging personal information for petes sake.



Speaking hypothetically. Maybe I don't want any information about my usage being recorded. For diagnostics or otherwise. Maybe I want to be clearly informed that such software exists on my device, Maybe I want the option of having it on the device or not.

And you have no idea whether or not it was used "as intended." You only have PR statements from companies who stand to lose if it's brought to light that the software wasn't used properly.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But I also am not naive to companies quote, unquote - wanting to save their collective behinds.
 
So Apple has installed CarrierIQ software in almost all of its iOS devices so they can optimize the user experience.

That's good.

CarrierIQ software can see everything the user does on his/her iOS device.

That's bad.

CarrierIQ says it is only doing what the carriers request.

That's good.

A YouTube video shows the software mapping keystrokes

That's bad.

The carriers say they are are only using the software to optimize network performance.

That's good.

CarrierIQ has been receiving the logs from 140,000,000 devices ...

That's bad ...

... but only distributing the information that its customers (the carriers) want.

That's good.

Apple has installed CarrierIQ software on virtually all of its iOS devices.

That turns out to be bad.

But it is not actually looking at the data beginning with iOS5 (which appeared in October 2011)

That's good

But it is still operational in non iOS5 devices.

That is bad.

But it will be removed in an upcoming version of iOS5

That will be REALLY good!!

But it will still reside in all non iOS5 units and some iOS5 units that are not upgraded.

That is still bad.

Apparently it does not even require a carrier to request the data, as the software runs on the iPod Touch and iPad WIFI.

That is bad.

How is it that we will know whether we have this CarrierIQ thing on our iOS devices? We can't see it, we can't delete it, we don't know if it is running. We can turn off the diagnostics thing, but that doesn't stop the program.

Pretty bad spot we are in just now.
 
So Apple has installed CarrierIQ software in almost all of its iOS devices so they can optimize the user experience.

That's good.

True

CarrierIQ software can see everything the user does on his/her iOS device.

That's bad.

False

CarrierIQ says it is only doing what the carriers request.

That's good.

I disagree that is good.

A YouTube video shows the software mapping keystrokes

That's bad.

On Android. Not on iOS.

The carriers say they are are only using the software to optimize network performance.

That's good.

CarrierIQ has been receiving the logs from 140,000,000 devices ...

That's bad ...

... but only distributing the information that its customers (the carriers) want.

That's good.

If only it was at the request of the device owner, like it is on iOS.

Apple has installed CarrierIQ software on virtually all of its iOS devices.

That turns out to be bad.

Why?

But it is not actually looking at the data beginning with iOS5 (which appeared in October 2011)

That's good

Okay.

But it is still operational in non iOS5 devices.

That is bad.

Why?

But it will be removed in an upcoming version of iOS5

That will be REALLY good!!

Yep.

But it will still reside in all non iOS5 units and some iOS5 units that are not upgraded.

That is still bad.

Apparently it does not even require a carrier to request the data, as the software runs on the iPod Touch and iPad WIFI.

That is bad.

How is it that we will know whether we have this CarrierIQ thing on our iOS devices? We can't see it, we can't delete it, we don't know if it is running. We can turn off the diagnostics thing, but that doesn't stop the program.

Pretty bad spot we are in just now.

Why is it bad on iOS devices?
 
Why is it bad to have it running on all iOS devices ?

Because, in my case, I have an iPod Touch that is pathetically slow anyway ... it cannot help to have this logging machine chugging along as well.

And it has to be storing its logs somewhere on the device, waiting for some process to grab them. I don't know where they reside, I don't know what they contain, and I do not know how to reset them. But I am sure there is some hacker who would have a field day with them, if the unit was to fall into the wrong hands.

I just don't want to have to worry about the log files, but I see no way to be assured that they are not being generated
 
Why is it bad to have it running on all iOS devices ?

Because, in my case, I have an iPod Touch that is pathetically slow anyway ... it cannot help to have this logging machine chugging along as well.

And it has to be storing its logs somewhere on the device, waiting for some process to grab them. I don't know where they reside, I don't know what they contain, and I do not know how to reset them. But I am sure there is some hacker who would have a field day with them, if the unit was to fall into the wrong hands.

I just don't want to have to worry about the log files, but I see no way to be assured that they are not being generated

I think your performance concern is overblown. Logging call times and locations (if location services is on) is a negligible process. Both are logged anyway even without carrier iq.

If we found out the log files were held for an inordinately long amount of time or contained additional data than has been reported or was accessible to third parties that would be bad. From the information that we have now, nothing is being logged that isn't logged in other areas of the phone. Location services and your recent call list. OS's contain many logs and caches that you're probably not aware of.

And, again, your original post claimed that carrier iq can see everything that a user does on iOS. That appears to be false from the information that has been published so far. That is the main concern with the Android version.
 
CarrierIQ presents iSpyware, only for Apple and Android users. Fanboys are proud of one more "killer" feature on their iPhones.
 
CarrierIQ presents iSpyware, only for Apple and Android users. Fanboys are proud of one more "killer" feature on their iPhones.

If you ignore the difference between legitimate, opt in diagnostic software and spyware.
 
If you ignore the difference between legitimate, opt in diagnostic software and spyware.

the truth is - no one knows what the truth is because the only statements are those of the "offending" parties. Which I would (at this point) take with a grain of salt.

I'll award 3rd party investigations and results, thank you.
 
the truth is - no one knows what the truth is because the only statements are those of the "offending" parties. Which I would (at this point) take with a grain of salt.

I'll award 3rd party investigations and results, thank you.

Which we've seen. For example:
http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737

From the original MacRumors post:

The information logged for iOS seems limited to phone call activity and location (if Location Services are enabled). Also unlike the implementation found on Eckhart's HTC, iOS users can opt out of these diagnostics by simply going to Settings -> General -> About -> Diagnostics & Usage -> Don't Send. The actually logged diagnostic data appears to be fully accessible for perusal in that same setting menu.

TUAW describes the iOS findings as "probably benign" and consistent with expected network performance diagnostics.
 
From one blogger yes. No idea who the blogger is or what his credentials and affiliations are or aren't.

Chpwn is the hacker who got Siri to work on other devices. Lots of jailbreak stuff.

Again - I'm not being a conspiracy theorist. But I'll wait until the dust settles and we hear from some researchers who I'm more familiar with.

That's fine. But calling something spyware when the initial indications are that it's not spyware seems a bit backwards.
 
Chpwn is the hacker who got Siri to work on other devices. Lots of jailbreak stuff.



That's fine. But calling something spyware when the initial indications are that it's not spyware seems a bit backwards.

Ok, it's not spyware. It's just an app where people have some or all of their actions logged for diagnostic purposes. Spyware is (generally) used for stealing purposes, but I think diagnostic is stealing if the carrier uses this information for traffic shaping, for example. There are uses where "diagnostic" can be seen as stealing. Hence, taking into account that customers were not informed of this "feature" when they bought their phones, this is very similar - if not the same thing - to a spyware.
 
Ok, it's not spyware. It's just an app where people have some or all of their actions logged for diagnostic purposes. Spyware is (generally) used for stealing purposes, but I think diagnostic is stealing if the carrier uses this information for traffic shaping, for example. There are uses where "diagnostic" can be seen as stealing. Hence, taking into account that customers were not informed of this "feature" when they bought their phones, this is very similar - if not the same thing - to a spyware.

I think everyone is ignoring the part where Apple was using it for diagnostic purposes (not logging keypresses or things of that nature) and only if you explicitly enabled it. There was no sneaking and the only things logged are not nefarious according to all the information known (in fact the logs are easily accessible).
 
Ok, it's not spyware. It's just an app where people have some or all of their actions logged for diagnostic purposes. Spyware is (generally) used for stealing purposes, but I think diagnostic is stealing if the carrier uses this information for traffic shaping, for example. There are uses where "diagnostic" can be seen as stealing. Hence, taking into account that customers were not informed of this "feature" when they bought their phones, this is very similar - if not the same thing - to a spyware.

Except that they were informed on iOS. It is opt in.
 
I think everyone is ignoring the part where Apple was using it for diagnostic purposes (not logging keypresses or things of that nature) and only if you explicitly enabled it. There was no sneaking and the only things logged are not nefarious according to all the information known (in fact the logs are easily accessible).

Except that they were informed on iOS. It is opt in.

Except you really don't know if that's all that was done or it was doing. Or all it was capable of doing "as installed"

No one is ignoring anything. I think people are waiting to see an investigation as to explicitly what the software was and was not doing on each device it was installed on.
 
And, again, your original post claimed that carrier iq can see everything that a user does on iOS. That appears to be false from the information that has been published so far. That is the main concern with the Android version.

Actually, Carrier IQ would almost certainly capture the same information on all phones. That's its purpose, after all. The only difference is that we can see their debug statements on some. That's all.

Folks, CarrierIQ looks at all keystrokes for the simple purpose of watching for a special sequence to put it into a test mode. They're not uploaded anywhere. This is no different than the way that current iPhone software looks for general field test mode, or a Blackberry watches for special sequences to show its log or change the status bars to signal level.

Likewise, CarrierIQ looks at all incoming texts, watching for the special ones that tell it to send its diagnostic info (NOT the developer debug log). If it doesn't see the special text, it doesn't care about it. Again, no different than the way most phones look for special remote disabling or other control messages.

Ok, it's not spyware. It's just an app where people have some or all of their actions logged for diagnostic purposes.

Yes, but let's be clear: for carrier diagnostic purposes, the actions logged are very general. As in, a text was sent with signal strength so-and-so.

The other logging that made the news was NOT the CarrierIQ diagnostic log. It was a common debug log for developers, that rolls fairly often and is cleared on reset.

Spyware is (generally) used for stealing purposes, but I think diagnostic is stealing if the carrier uses this information for traffic shaping, for example. There are uses where "diagnostic" can be seen as stealing. Hence, taking into account that customers were not informed of this "feature" when they bought their phones, this is very similar - if not the same thing - to a spyware.

Almost every complicated device we own has some kind of diagnostics built in. Just look at your cable modem logs sometime. Most people don't know about these things, nor need to.

Most people are not "informed" that their new cars log their driving, either. Yet that information stored in our engine computers has been used to convict street racers and even a priest who lied about not knowing he was involved in a hit-and-run.

I think everyone is ignoring the part where Apple was using it for diagnostic purposes (not logging keypresses or things of that nature) and only if you explicitly enabled it. There was no sneaking and the only things logged are not nefarious according to all the information known (in fact the logs are easily accessible).

Every carrier that includes it is only using it for diagnostic purposes.

However, I think the fact that it's included is a throwback to the days of the carriers owning all equipment and thus feeling it's okay to include diagnostics. Today is a new world, with less trust of corporations, and more ignorance about how things work, so they need to adapt. I'd bet that this was covered in some user agreement, though.
 
Actually, Carrier IQ would almost certainly capture the same information on all phones. That's its purpose, after all. The only difference is that we can see their debug statements on some. That's all.

Again, from the information that we have so far, that is not true.

According to the original MacRumors post, jailbreak hacker Chpwn, found that Carrier IQ has no access or communication with the UI layer on iOS.

http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737

Folks, CarrierIQ looks at all keystrokes for the simple purpose of watching for a special sequence to put it into a test mode. They're not uploaded anywhere. This is no different than the way that current iPhone software looks for general field test mode, or a Blackberry watches for special sequences to show its log or change the status bars to signal level.

Likewise, CarrierIQ looks at all incoming texts, watching for the special ones that tell it to send its diagnostic info (NOT the developer debug log). If it doesn't see the special text, it doesn't care about it. Again, no different than the way most phones look for special remote disabling or other control messages.

That's just talking around the issue. Even if the actual data sent is exactly the same as on iOS, it still has access to more information than it needs and is hidden from the user. No way to turn it off. No opt in. No user notice.
 
I want to see one person - just one - who has ever been truly hurt, punished, injured or in any other way disenfranchised by a private corporation or public entity due to any of these horrific privacy-smashing civil rights-destroying espionage applications.

I have certain feelings about most complaints I hear about "privacy infringement". It involves laughter, mockery and cynicism.

Thus Liberty is lost, not amidst struggle, but with a whimper & apathy
 
According to the original MacRumors post, jailbreak hacker Chpwn, found that Carrier IQ has no access or communication with the UI layer on iOS.

Thanks. At least he hasn't found any so far. It doesn't matter, though, since the text and key watching is only done to allow command entries. Nothing evil or even unusual about that.

That's just talking around the issue. Even if the actual data sent is exactly the same as on iOS, it still has access to more information than it needs and is hidden from the user. No way to turn it off. No opt in. No user notice.

Hacker Chpwn said that even with diagnostics turned off in the UI, the iOS version _still_ logged all the information... it just didn't send it.

"However, despite those restrictions and never enabling the above checks, I do see Carrier IQ log files stored on all of the devices I tested: iOS3,4,5."

Personally, I don't see any reason that users should not allow diagnostics... at least as long as they're not using up our data plan or messing up our UI experience. (Apple sends the info over WiFi.) Lord knows some carriers need the info. (E.g. ATT and Sprint, who are the main US carriers that use it.)

The only problem with any of this (as I think you pointed out as well), is that the debug log was left turned on, and the info is visible for a short time.
 
Personally, I don't see any reason that users should not allow diagnostics... at least as long as they're not using up our data plan or messing up our UI experience. (Apple sends the info over WiFi.) Lord knows some carriers need the info. (E.g. ATT and Sprint, who are the main US carriers that use it.)

My main concern is that carriers can be using diagnostic tools to limit excessive bandwidth usage (e.g. a long time watching YouTube videos). Also, wifi tethering apps or voip-like software could be blocked by the carriers. In my opinion this is unfair. If I bought a data plan of 10GB/1mbps, I want to be able to download stuff at 1mbps until I reach 10GB. On unlimited data plans, bandwidth can be reduced to 250kbps after downloads have reached 10GB, but, again, I want to use 250kbps constantly if I want.

I don't want to see my connection falling to 50kbps just because the carrier thinks I used too much bandwidth while I'll be breaking my head thinking about what happened to my phone connection.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.