Right. I agree. But at least Android users have/had an option. Prior to iOS 5 - how would you handle removing CIQ from the iPhone?
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Apple Stopped Supporting Carrier IQ in iOS 5, Complete Removal Coming in Future
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Right. I agree. But at least Android users have/had an option. Prior to iOS 5 - how would you handle removing CIQ from the iPhone?
Thats not what I meant.
My point is that its just another way to benefit from having the OPTION of switching between ROMs.
Choice is a good thing. But not a reality in the Apple world (the only choice is to either go all in or not at all).
Then how do you explain the fact that Verizon has made an official statement (actually two times in the past couple of weeks) that Carrier IQ is not installed or used on any of their phones?
It seems to me that carriers like AT&T and Sprint should be the ones that are blamed because they wanted it on their phones.
The Android Tax
Once again, Gruber absolutely nails it.
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Rootkit, Eh?
Thursday, 1 December 2011
Thom Holwerda, OSNews, headline: CarrierIQ Rootkit Found on Android, iOS
Really?
On iOS the setting is off by default, plainly labeled, and even when turned on, apparently only logs (a) location data and (b) when a phone call was active. And it doesnt even log location data if Location Services are disabled a setting which, again, is plainly labeled and easy to find.
According to Trevor Eckhart, on HTC Android phones, the Carrier IQ daemon logs the following: every number you press in the phone dialer, every key you type on the keyboard, every SMS message you receive, every URL you open in the web browser, every app you open, all media playback, and your location. There is no visible sign that this is running, the process is hidden from the process viewer, and there is no way to turn it off.
From that information, Holwerda chooses the headline CarrierIQ Rootkit Found on Android, iOS. [UPDATE: The headline has since been changed to CarrierIQ Rootkit Found on Android.]
As a sidenote, it amuses me to no end how someone like John Gruber has mysteriously and quite suddenly adopted the its the carriers fault!-mantra now that iOS has also been found to include CarrierIQ. Which is ironic, since it appears that Apple is the only one including CarrierIQ (slightly butchered, but still) within the operating system itself, whereas on Android, its a carrier thing.
I could point out that describing the Carrier IQ-related logging on iOS as a slightly butchered version of whats been found on HTC Android phones is an absurd instance of false equivalence, but thats self-evident. I enjoy a debate regarding my work and any perceived biases in it, and Id like to think that OSNews is a reasonable source with a different perspective, which is why Im responding to this. But I worry here that Im trying to reason with the unreasonable.
How could my stance on Carrier IQ suddenly change when Id never written about it before yesterday? Ive gone back and re-read everything Ive written about it thus far (here, here, and here), and I cant find a single word where I place blame anywhere other than in the hands of the carriers. (Which, as the story continues to unfold, looks to be exactly where the blame should be placed.) I didnt even crack an Android is open joke.
Whats important here is not merely the presence of anything related to Carrier IQ. Whats important is the surreptitious logging and collection of sensitive private data. It is certainly interesting that Apple is using Carrier IQ services to log anything at all, and worthy of investigation. But to date, weve learned nothing scandalous, misleading, or unclear about what Apple is doing in this regard. Theres not a shred of evidence that Apple is now or ever was using Carrier IQ for anything other than collecting only and exactly the sort of data Apple says, plainly, that it collects when the user chooses explicitly to allow it.
Apple has a clearly-worded diagnostics collection privacy policy, which you can read on the device in Settings → General → About → Diagnostics & Usage → About Diagnostics and Privacy. Im hosting a copy of it here so everyone can read it. Its short and utterly reasonable.
The worst that can be said of Apple in this saga is that theyre guilty by association that Apple used, for innocuous purposes, the services of a company that others have used for nefarious purposes. To put this in the same boat as Android devices which ship from the factory with secret keyloggers installed is absurd.*★
http://daringfireball.net/
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But hey, it's "open", or whatever . . .
Once again, Gruber absolutely nails it.
------------------------------------------------
Rootkit, Eh?
Thursday, 1 December 2011
Thom Holwerda, OSNews, headline: CarrierIQ Rootkit Found on Android, iOS
Really?
On iOS the setting is off by default, plainly labeled, and even when turned on, apparently only logs (a) location data and (b) when a phone call was active. And it doesnt even log location data if Location Services are disabled a setting which, again, is plainly labeled and easy to find.
According to Trevor Eckhart, on HTC Android phones, the Carrier IQ daemon logs the following: every number you press in the phone dialer, every key you type on the keyboard, every SMS message you receive, every URL you open in the web browser, every app you open, all media playback, and your location. There is no visible sign that this is running, the process is hidden from the process viewer, and there is no way to turn it off.
From that information, Holwerda chooses the headline CarrierIQ Rootkit Found on Android, iOS. [UPDATE: The headline has since been changed to CarrierIQ Rootkit Found on Android.]
As a sidenote, it amuses me to no end how someone like John Gruber has mysteriously and quite suddenly adopted the its the carriers fault!-mantra now that iOS has also been found to include CarrierIQ. Which is ironic, since it appears that Apple is the only one including CarrierIQ (slightly butchered, but still) within the operating system itself, whereas on Android, its a carrier thing.
I could point out that describing the Carrier IQ-related logging on iOS as a slightly butchered version of whats been found on HTC Android phones is an absurd instance of false equivalence, but thats self-evident. I enjoy a debate regarding my work and any perceived biases in it, and Id like to think that OSNews is a reasonable source with a different perspective, which is why Im responding to this. But I worry here that Im trying to reason with the unreasonable.
How could my stance on Carrier IQ suddenly change when Id never written about it before yesterday? Ive gone back and re-read everything Ive written about it thus far (here, here, and here), and I cant find a single word where I place blame anywhere other than in the hands of the carriers. (Which, as the story continues to unfold, looks to be exactly where the blame should be placed.) I didnt even crack an Android is open joke.
Whats important here is not merely the presence of anything related to Carrier IQ. Whats important is the surreptitious logging and collection of sensitive private data. It is certainly interesting that Apple is using Carrier IQ services to log anything at all, and worthy of investigation. But to date, weve learned nothing scandalous, misleading, or unclear about what Apple is doing in this regard. Theres not a shred of evidence that Apple is now or ever was using Carrier IQ for anything other than collecting only and exactly the sort of data Apple says, plainly, that it collects when the user chooses explicitly to allow it.
Apple has a clearly-worded diagnostics collection privacy policy, which you can read on the device in Settings → General → About → Diagnostics & Usage → About Diagnostics and Privacy. Im hosting a copy of it here so everyone can read it. Its short and utterly reasonable.
The worst that can be said of Apple in this saga is that theyre guilty by association that Apple used, for innocuous purposes, the services of a company that others have used for nefarious purposes. To put this in the same boat as Android devices which ship from the factory with secret keyloggers installed is absurd.*★
http://daringfireball.net/
----------------------------------------------
But hey, it's "open", or whatever . . .
they were doing it before who to say there werent now, after all apple allowe it to be on the iphone they new it was there , now that this is out in the open they come out with there twist on why it was allow apple has been lying to thier costemers since day one.
Another Apple PR Spin
Just because Apple doesn't read iPhone emails, texts, or encrypted searches doesn't mean Carrier IQ isn't collecting this information anyway. Anyone who conducts illegal wiretapping should be criminally prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and if it turns out Apple is an accessory to criminal wiretapping, certain Apple executives should end up in jail.
Just because Apple doesn't read iPhone emails, texts, or encrypted searches doesn't mean Carrier IQ isn't collecting this information anyway. Anyone who conducts illegal wiretapping should be criminally prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and if it turns out Apple is an accessory to criminal wiretapping, certain Apple executives should end up in jail.
I think it is unbelievable that customers are not made aware of what is going on with the phones and plans they spend good money on.
The worst offenders, in my mind, are companies like HTC who actually compile this Carrier IQ stuff right into their bloated version of Android. Really ridiculous, and I hope that people start holding companies, who are complicit in compromising users privacy and security, accountable.
I applaud Apple for taking the stance they are on this issue.
The worst offenders, in my mind, are companies like HTC who actually compile this Carrier IQ stuff right into their bloated version of Android. Really ridiculous, and I hope that people start holding companies, who are complicit in compromising users privacy and security, accountable.
I applaud Apple for taking the stance they are on this issue.
But it was only enabled if you selected to send diagnostics and usage information and it didn't record anything the way the versions on Android apparently do. Don't enable that option and it shouldn't be an issue, right?
EDIT: Also, nice that you can always find the downside for Apple. You're like the anti-LTD.
This is not as important as the privacy concerns, but still important, how does Carrier IQ affect battery life anyway? It seems that with this reporting all the time, battery life goes down the drain (which probably explains Android's battery crap too)
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When plugging in your iPhone for the first time, you choose Don't Send on iOS 4.
On iOS 5, this option appears during that Welcome setup.
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When plugging in your iPhone for the first time, you choose Don't Send on iOS 4.
On iOS 5, this option appears during that Welcome setup.
CIQ in iOS
Apple is saying iOS ver 1.0 till 4.3.5 has CIO in the kernel, while 5.0 and beyond does not.
Why would Apple, largest company in the world in terms of market cap, allow a small virtually unknown company like Carrier IQ place a bug in their OS, when they wont even allow their partner (Google, Yahoo, etc..) access.
My reasoning is, the multi-year deal with Cingular (initially when iPhone was begging for carrier to carry it on their terms) .. later bought over by AT&T. Probably in the deal, AT&T insisted that CIQ be included in exchange for Apple's terms. And since the exclusive deal just ended recently, CIQ was no longer found in the newer iOS, replaced by awd (Apple Wired Database?).
Apple is saying iOS ver 1.0 till 4.3.5 has CIO in the kernel, while 5.0 and beyond does not.
Why would Apple, largest company in the world in terms of market cap, allow a small virtually unknown company like Carrier IQ place a bug in their OS, when they wont even allow their partner (Google, Yahoo, etc..) access.
My reasoning is, the multi-year deal with Cingular (initially when iPhone was begging for carrier to carry it on their terms) .. later bought over by AT&T. Probably in the deal, AT&T insisted that CIQ be included in exchange for Apple's terms. And since the exclusive deal just ended recently, CIQ was no longer found in the newer iOS, replaced by awd (Apple Wired Database?).
I don't get why Apple is nice to the carriers at all. Having the iPhone on your network is what all carriers dream of. Apple doesn't need to worry about their devices wasting the carriers' bandwidth with VoIP and tethering!
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Not in the Constitution (4th amendment), as many think. That is regarding searches and seizures by government organizations. Not saying anything against you, but I hate it when Tea Party and Occupy people think the Bill of Rights gives them the right to do anything they want.
The 1st amendment simply says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I would not call camping out and destroying public land as "peaceful". In fact, they have plenty of places to assemble where it is legal to do so.
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Tethered jailbreak, a nightmare (especially for users not used to using Terminal).
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I installed an ad blocker since the only time I click on ads is by accident (and it closes my app) or repeatedly when I feel like making the advertiser pay a lot of money for their annoying ads
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Not in the Constitution (4th amendment), as many think. That is regarding searches and seizures by government organizations. Not saying anything against you, but I hate it when Tea Party and Occupy people think the Bill of Rights gives them the right to do anything they want.
The 1st amendment simply says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I would not call camping out and destroying public land as "peaceful". In fact, they have plenty of places to assemble where it is legal to do so.
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Tethered jailbreak, a nightmare (especially for users not used to using Terminal).
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I installed an ad blocker since the only time I click on ads is by accident (and it closes my app
) or repeatedly when I feel like making the advertiser pay a lot of money for their annoying ads No - that doesn't remove it. That just stops it from calling home (if that's 100 percent true). The carrier IQ's program could easily still be logging everything.
Turning something off isn't the same as flat out removing it.
Would you knowingly keep spyware on your computer regardless of whether or not it sent data back to the host or would you remove it leaving no 'holes' in security.
I will say this - for all the phones that have Carrier IQ - they've just taken a step backwards in enterprise security.
One difference between Apple and Google would be that Apple could prevent Carrier IQ from installing their app on Apple phones, but Google could prevent Carrier IQ from installing their app on phones that are not made by Google. Both Apple and Google would be allowed to do business with Carrier IQ or not, as they see fit. But Google preventing Carrier IQ to do business with Samsung, HTC etc. is a different thing.
Apple sells phones to you. The phones are the product, you are the customer. You, as the customer, don't want your data to be collected. Companies tend to do what keeps the customer happy.
Google sells you to the advertisers. You are the product, the advertisers are the customers. The advertisers, as the customer, want as much information about you, the product, as they can get. Companies tend to do what keeps the customer happy.
I think they should have protected the Indians much better.
Oh wait, we all wouldn't be here!
The entire subject is once again a slow newsday blown out of proportion issue.
Somebody does what they shouldn't be doing. Some are a little smarter about doing that than others. They all get caught and have to stop.
Next.
Won't be the last time.
That's a load of horse-*%$£ Apple will do anything and everything it can to get and use your information. How short your memory is. Apple would have continued tracking your location if they had not been caught, and how do you know they aren't tracking various aspects of your life without you knowing about it. Only when they get caught red-handed or find themselves implicated by association with software that makes them look bad will they begin to distance themselves. They are just another company (profit for shareholders) but they are the very best when it comes to image management.
They are only removing it now with iOS 5 and it's still there on some iOS5 devices, they won't even acknowledge which ones, rather they are vague saying removed from 'most' devices. At this point CarrierIQ are dead in the water much like the Tiger Woods incident everyone will distance themselves and eventually discontinue using CarrierIQ. I don't even blame CarrierIQ wholly. I would point the finger at companies who allowed their hardware/software to use this in the first place.
For example there are many worthwhile uses for a knife, preparing meals, eating with. In the hands of someone with an evil intent then it becomes a weapon. It would be similar to blaming the knife manufacturer for a murder, preposterous. Data tracking has many worthwhile uses, collection of medical information, etc, etc. Data tracking and the companies that make them are not inherently bad, it's when it's used on people unknowingly and secretly without consent it becomes a problem.
Apple are as much to blame as everyone else who covertly used this.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
Stupid? Then you go on to make a completely emotive argument with false analogies and *still* beg the question?
alhedges said:
Stupid? Then you go on to make a completely emotive argument with false analogies and *still* beg the question?
Apple sells both their phones to users, AND their users to advertisers via iAds.
Neither Apple nor Google is selling personal information directly. BOTH are selling the fact that they have personal information, and can provide targeted ad markets. The more targeted the info, the more they can charge for ads.
Heck, it's likely that Apple sometimes has far MORE personal information than Google does, since they know so much about our accounts, demographics and media tastes from iTunes.
As Apple puts it in their iAds blurb:
They go on to list some ad targeting options that iTunes / iOS helped them get:
Advertisers live and die off targeted markets derived from personal info and interests. Apple and Google are in the same boat when it comes to that.
Apple sells advertistments as well. You are the product as well so as such they will sell it.
Apple knows that it has an army blind followers who will defend Apple at every turn. Apple also shown that it is very greedy and will do anything to make an extra buck. Hence the reason that Apple will do it as well.
Why would you want to remove it? It was used as intended - for diagnostics and not logging personal information for petes sake.
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Google sells advertistments. You are the product as well so as such they will sell it.
Google knows that it has an army blind followers who will defend Google at every turn. Google also shown that it is very greedy and will do anything to make an extra buck. Hence the reason that Google will continue doing so.