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Like most people, I criticise Apple when they unreasonably inflate the price of “extras” that should be included, but there are a lot of people across the forums criticising the absence of included height adjustment on the Studio Display which they say is ”necessary”, and, at the same time bemoaning the death of the iMac which never had height adjustment. Millions and millions of iMacs were sold around the globe for more than a decade and almost everyone seemed to do fine with tilt only.
I really disliked the fact that the 27" iMac did not have height adjustment, so much so that I ended up buying a VESA mount and separate stand for it. However, I ended up going back to the original stand because my VESA stand wasn't quite as stable and it looked like what it was, a generic PC monitor stand. Plus the iMac with that huge chin looks odd sitting so close to the top of the table - looks awkward. So I just replaced the original stand and lived with it. (I'm not tall, so that's why I prefer a lower monitor.)

Interestingly, the bottom of my 30" Cinema Display's viewable area sits about 2" lower than the iMac's viewable area, so that's my preferred screen despite being non-Retina.

I wonder how low the Studio Display can go, but my guess is not THAT low, since it's built to sit above the Mac Studio, which is fairly tall at 3.7 inches. It's tall enough that it can't sit underneath my 30" Cinema Display.
 
Plus you get height and tilt adjustable stand included. So more like $600 saved.
save even more. Head on over to eBay and pick it up for $700-900. I have 4 of these beasts and I paid $160 to $600, averaging $350. But I bought well used models and had some fixed by LG. LG is fantastic when it comes to repairing these.
 
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1. One could buy the VESA mount version and get a height adjustable mount on Amazon for $50 or so. Ugly, but gets you height adjustment for cheap.

2. Anything stopping LG from releasing a USB4 5k display now, with multiple input capability?

3. This monitor has an A13 chip. I wonder if it‘s possible to load iOS, MacOS, or TVOS onto it? Not that iOS would be useful without a touchscreen, but an A13 with MacOS would turn this thing into a slow iMac - would just need some dongles for BT and Wi-Fi.
 
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Does anyone sell a 200 ppi 30” screen that is good quality and works well with Macs? I don’t like 218 ppi as much.

I say this as an owner of a 2017 27” iMac (218 ppi) and a 30” Apple Cinema HD Display (100 ppi). A pixel quadrupled (200 ppi) version of the Cinema Display would be totally awesome.
Yes, I'd rather have a slightly lower density display. Why? Because the lower the density, the larger the default font sizing.

A workaround is to use scaled resolutions, but it affects text quality, and also the offered scaled resolutions aren't ideal.
I knew it! I knew I couldn't be the only one! Yes, I love the quality of text at 200% on my LG 5K, but I wish it was a tad larger than it is. I'm myopic, and though I can easily read the text, everything feels just a tad smaller than it needs to be. I've tried seeing what 4K at 27" with 200% scaling looks like, but it makes everything too big. I think 4K at 24" (around 186 ppi) is the best compromise, but I'm unwilling to swap out my monitor for another 60Hz one at this point.

What's odd to me is that esports players love 24", and modern GPUs are more than fast enough to drive 4K on esports titles. So why are there no 4K 120Hz 24" panels in the pipeline?!
 
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I knew it! I knew I couldn't be the only one! Yes, I love the quality of text at 200% on my LG 5K, but I wish it was a tad larger than it is. I'm myopic, and though I can easily read the text, everything feels just a tad smaller than it needs to be. I've tried seeing what 4K at 27" with 200% scaling looks like, but it makes everything too big. I think 4K at 24" (around 186 ppi) is the best compromise, but I'm unwilling to swap out my monitor for another 60Hz one at this point.

What's odd to me is that esports players love 24", and modern GPUs are more than fast enough to drive 4K on esports titles. So why are there no 4K 120Hz 24" panels in the pipeline?!
1080p/4K at 24" works, but while the text size decent (bigger than I need), I find the screen real estate too small. With a 30" 2.5/5K, it is easy to put two modern reasonably wide webpage windows on screen side-by-side and still have some room left over. I suspect in the future I might end up going with a super wide-screen monitor, but in the meantime I'll continue to use my 30" Cinema Display. Hopefully there are no issues running an M1 Pro or M2 Mac mini with it.

I suspect 120 Hz isn't as common in those smaller monitor sizes because they're not in as high demand. Typically these people want bigger monitors I'm guessing. For me though the refresh rate is not an issue. 60-75 Hz is fine.
 
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The picture quality is incredible. It's better than any Apple screen I've ever owned aside from my XDR MPB and OLED iPhone 13 Pro. Perhaps I got lucky with my panel, but I've never had any issues.

For a plastic monitor the build quality is excellent. The stand is height and tilt adjustable with a solid metal base. The stand is removable and can be replaced with the included metal vesa mount. The stand and vesa mount are quite heavy.

View attachment 1972105View attachment 1972107View attachment 1972106
And it’s glossy :) miss glossy screens
 
LG is often the best brand when it comes to bang for your buck for midrange and highrange monitors and TVs. Not surprised at all that Apple fears their products
 
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LG should keep selling their 5K Ultrafine display, drop the price to around $1K since they have a ready market in Mac Studio buyers who can then buy a display for approximately half the price and 90% of the functionality.
 
2. Anything stopping LG from releasing a USB4 5k display now, with multiple input capability?

USB4 downstream? The 5K video feed consumes a fair amount of bandwidth. (one reason why the XDR drops down to USB 2.0 on its downstream ports ). USB4 upstream? Doesn't really do much over Thunderbolt 3. ( USB4 only optionally covers TBv3 ).

Pragmatically with no iMac 5K to drive volume they have probably have problems. I think Apple was the only vendor buying these panels. With supply chain shortages there is a pretty good chance that when Apple switched over to another backlight (for 600nits) that making the 'old' panel may not be profitable enough for LG. Apple has also probably locked LG into a price point for the 600nit display that they want to keep Apple 'happy' with deliveries ( so don't want any distractions. ).

[ Would be curious how many of these Utlrafine got sold through non Apple Stores or non major Apple resellers. If places that sold Macs drove over 50% of the sales then there would be lots of 'headwind' in selling against Apple's offering of the same panel. ]

3. This monitor has an A13 chip. I wonder if it‘s possible to load iOS, MacOS, or TVOS onto it? Not that iOS would be useful without a touchscreen, but an A13 with MacOS would turn this thing into a slow iMac - would just need some dongles for BT and Wi-Fi.

macOS on a A13 probably isn't practical. There is no firmware support for that. Additionally to get the A13 package costs down Apple may not have attached much RAM to these SoC. If all they are doing is running tvOS (homePod variant with tweaks) or BridgeOS (from T2 era ) then don't need much RAM to run an embedded OS with no display or apps.

There is a pretty good chance that the A13 is not running the USB ports. The A13 (like the T2 ) is acting like a virtual USB/PCI-e device. It isn't the master USB controller there.

Thunderbolt controller --- (pci-e switch)

discrete USB controller --| ----- virtual PCI-e interface (A13/T2-like device on ) --- ( camera , speakers , fan? )
____ | ___ | _____|
port1__ port2__ port3


For the A12/T2 to take over would be assuming that it could take over the hierarchy if the TB port isn't active ( or actively connected to another TB system). And there is actually substantial SSD drive in there. An additional cost management design decision is probably to minimize the storage needed to store the embedded OS. macOS has to do the initial boot process off of an internal drive. No "Mac SSD" inside no macOS.
 
LG should keep selling their 5K Ultrafine display, drop the price to around $1K since they have a ready market in Mac Studio buyers who can then buy a display for approximately half the price and 90% of the functionality.

With no iMac 5K sales to boost volume that is probably not tractable. I'm pretty sure nobody else buys that screen. And there is more than decent chance that Apple (and large Apple resellers ) accounted for most of the sales of the Ultrafine. No volume target market then likely no product.
LG has lots of other displays to sell into the mainstream market.

Apple has probably pragmatically soaked up all the production of the new 600nit variants of these panels in a contract for a while.

One of the purposes of the UltraFine 5K was to boost the economies of scale for the iMac 5K panel. If there is no iMac 5K then there is no 'floor' on the volume of the panels sold.

And the Studio Display probably will not be close to the iMac 5K panel sales volume at all.
 
With whatever screen I like should be retina like resolution + min 27”… can you please point me to one of these displays that are so much cheaper than the base iMac 27” used to that there’s also room for adding a computer? Like just base Mac mini. Point being a 27” display in retina used to “come with a computer”. Now you roughly pay the same for a similar display without the computer.

I’m not saying that the studio display isn’t worth the money with all it’s bells and whistles and specs.

Just saying that there’s gap left now and to get a similar display plus computer as I have today I would have to pay significantly more.

I don’t care or know much about color spaces, nits etc. I don’t do graphics, so a lot of it is over my needs. Same with build in speakers and webcam. No need for it. But I do like the resolution and size.

It’s like going to shop to buy milk and then being told that you have to buy coffee as well to buy milk.
The 27 inch iMac is exactly like your milk analogy. You want to buy a screen but have to buy a Mac as well. Even if you don’t need one. And when the coffee runs out, you need to buy everything new. Because Apple refuses you to use the screen standalone.

I have a 27 inch iMac as well. When I’ll upgrade, I can either go 24 inch (which is also retina btw) or 27 inch Studio or 32 inch XDR. Plenty of choice.

And if you think Apple is overpriced, you buy a third party screen that fits your budget. It’s all fine.
 
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save even more. Head on over to eBay and pick it up for $700-900. I have 4 of these beasts and I paid $160 to $600, averaging $350. But I bought well used models and had some fixed by LG. LG is fantastic when it comes to repairing these.
I did actually buy one off eBay last year for $900, Like new. But i got a small amount of water in between the screen and bezel and ruined it. When I contacted LG, the person I talked to said mine wasn’t eligible for repairs. What kind of proof of purchase did you provide?
 
The Studio has a good base for height adjustment. It is flat and you can put a book or some kind of spacer under it to raise it.
Oh yeah, I'm well aware of the stack-of-books solution. Cheaper than $300, but not particularly pro. ;)
 

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With no iMac 5K sales to boost volume that is probably not tractable. I'm pretty sure nobody else buys that screen. And there is more than decent chance that Apple (and large Apple resellers ) accounted for most of the sales of the Ultrafine. No volume target market then likely no product.
LG has lots of other displays to sell into the mainstream market.

Hard to say. When Dell came out with their 5K monitor based on the same panel, it wasn’t possible to drive these except via dual DP cables. There is enough bandwidth on USB-C DP Alt Mode to easily drive 5K on a single cable and any new GPU in the last 2-3 years can drive it. Yes, the PC desktop monitor market is strange by Mac standards - all the volume is in lower cost productivity and in gaming and both place screen size over resolution, which is why the market is flooded with 27” 4K monitors for “good enough” productivity use and then gamers who don’t care about pixel density are pushing the 4K monitor market to 32” and even 40”+ behemoths. That said, it’s not like there hasn’t been a fully tooled assembly line for the 5K panel driven by guaranteed volume from Apple for many years that couldn’t be leveraged. The controller boards for driving these from PCs via DP 1.4 have been available on AliExpress for years - theres been a few smaller vendors who actually shipped monitors based on them (Iiyama, Planar) and even a few hackers who bought the boards and panels off of AliExpress and did DIY monitors. I think that it was more the nature of Apple’s relationship with LG that prevented them or at least highly disincentivized them from offering these or a separate 5K monitor. The question now is whether that relationship now compels them to shut down the line for these panels or whether it was repurposed for the new panel in the Studio display. If it wasn’t repurposed and they’re free to do so, it’s reasonable to see either the UltraFine 5K or some variant of it continue. LG has a lot of monitors in its lineup for a variety of niche use cases - they have nowhere close to the product segmentation discipline that Apple does and if it appears like they do, it's much more likely that's imposed by their OEM customers.
 
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Agreed.

Really hope LG doesn’t just drop the 5k..

Love to see one with a couple inputs
I’d buy it in a heartbeat
My guess is that since LG is supplying the panels for the Studio Display, and the UltraFine 5K was marketed specifically as a “Mac” monitor, LG decided to discontinue the UltraFine 5K entirely.
 
Unlikely because there is no Dark Mac Studio either. Maybe in future when the product line matures. Right now its in the middle territory where they are too powerful for most users and too under powered for people who want to upgrade from Mac Pro.

Under powered? How?

The unannounced M1 Ultra Mac Pro will be the actual replacement, but at this time the Studio is a more powerful machine than the current Mac Pro by quite a good margin.
 
Hard to say. When Dell came out with their 5K monitor based on the same panel, it wasn’t possible to drive these except via dual DP cables. There is enough bandwidth on USB-C DP Alt Mode to easily drive 5K on a single cable and any new GPU in the last 2-3 years can drive it.

Getting the 5K 10-bit video over the cable isn't the major issue with the "downstream" ports and internal camera on the monitors. It is more about what is left over when finish with that video pull. If using DSC compression then USB 3.1 gen 2 for a port is reasonable expectation setting. Come here to plug in your 30Gb/s external SSD probably won't match those expectations with good results.
And with more folks wanting > 60Hz the video becomes a Thunderbolt hog.

That said, it’s not like there hasn’t been a fully tooled assembly line for the 5K panel driven by guaranteed volume from Apple for many years that couldn’t be leveraged. The controller boards for driving these from PCs via DP 1.4 have been available on AliExpress for years - theres been a few smaller vendors who actually shipped monitors based on them (Iiyama, Planar)

But I think Dell, Ilyama , etc have all dropped out over the extended period of time. There were others at the initial several years. However, over time it has become pragmatically an Apple only resolution.


and even a few hackers who bought the boards and panels off of AliExpress and did DIY monitors. I think that it was more the nature of Apple’s relationship with LG that prevented them or at least highly disincentivized them from offering these or a separate 5K monitor. The question now is whether that relationship now compels them to shut down the line for these panels or whether it was repurposed for the new panel in the Studio display. If it wasn’t repurposed and they’re free to do so, it’s reasonable to see either the UltraFine 5K or some variant of it continue. LG has a lot of monitors in its lineup for a variety of niche use cases - they have nowhere close to the product segmentation discipline that Apple does and if it appears like they do, it's much more likely that's imposed by their OEM customers.

I don't think it is the relationship as much as Covid supply chain disruptions coupled to a spike in display panel technological change.

First, are there going to be enough "spare , unused" production equipment lying around to crank up a new 600nit production line for the Studio display. Apple killing iMac 27" and external monitor at same time is somewhat suggestive that it is a "reuse". That very likely the cheapest path to a the Studio Display panels at a price point that Apple is probably demanding. (Apple tells LG , " just use that equipment you have to make this new panel and don't charge us for new capital costs". Likely asking for 600nit panels at 500nit panel prices from a couple of years ago. )

If it turns out Apple can't sell enough Studio Displays to keep a major subset of the production lines occupied, then maybe. However, if Apple is consuming them at an expected pace then that "disincentivized threat" is still in play. Would need to turn into "hey Apple it would save you money indirectly if you let us do x with the glut of panels lying around".

It will be a while before Apple/LG knows what the longer term steady state run rate is going to be on these. But LG is woring on OLED and min-LED displays also. In 2023-24 there is probably be pricing pressure to push a LG offering down. I'm not sure they will want to keep all the 5K production floor space they have assigned to 5K in past years assigned to older tech at that size. ( more 4K stuff. If LG has the 24" iMac that seems a better target to do if going to iterate to a bit lower priced monitor. )
 
Under powered? How?

a > 1TB shrinkage in max RAM.
x4 or x8 pcie v4 lanes versus x64 v4 lanes ( so about a 3/4 reduction in bandwidth)
max internal stroage capacity.


The unannounced M1 Ultra Mac Pro will be the actual replacement, but at this time the Studio is a more powerful machine than the current Mac Pro by quite a good margin.

'More powerful' on a set of workloads that Apple selected. Beat a W6800 duo at RedRaw 8K decode? Apple's comparisons were all against single GPU ( corner cases for 3090 , W6900X , etc. ). They don't want to do dual compares because can't really do duo compares at all.

They just throw 128GPU unified cores at it. There are already scaling issues in their cherry picked benchmarks on the Mac Studio market page. M1 Max -> Ultra scale factor 1.18-1.60 . Pretty good chance a bundle of 4 32GPU will sag even further on a variety of workloads.
 
As someone who installed a new M1 Mini in a different room that required a separate display, I can state unequivocally that I would have much preferred the Studio Display to the UltraFine. Twice, I had the UltraFine go dark, with no apparent reason. Twice I had to change out the TB cable just to get it to reliably work with the new Mini. (VESA mounted; lots of work). My penchant for sticking with Apple for everything wasn't possible at that time since a $4999 display was outside my affordability or need and was the only Apple product available at that time. The Studio Display also looks a lot nicer and has a built in VESA mount available
 
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