Apple Stops Signing iOS 16.3.1 to Prevent Downgrading

[Shirasaki]

i'd love to know a) why you disagree with what i said (since there's nothing in my forum post thats false, what i said is genuinely factual) and b) why you use 10-11 year old operating system versions despite them having been long out of support and having rapidly shrinking support for applications...

Well, yeah much of what you know are what is told by media and Apple and they want you to believe what they say and treat them as absolute truth, when in reality it is murkier.

I get the vibe of using old operating system is not for everyone, but to question someone using 10-11 years old operating system claiming rapidly shrinking support for applications (which in itself doesn‘t matter much at this point anymore given the software that runs on them won’t work on Ventura anyway) is completely missing the point. By that logic, we should replace all mechanical locks to digital ones because mechanical locks have been around for centuries, thus “outdated”.

 

[Shirasaki]

If Apple were to set the “Automatic Updates” to “On”, and grey the button out... well, that would be catastrophic.

Despite Apple’s recent move to separate security updates from normal software updates, I just always have this bizarre feeling that Apple one day will make all devices running latest software mandatory and cannot be changed by end user. Aka no one will have the option to downgrade, even beta testers.

 

[FeliApple]

The point I'm trying to make is that there's much more at stake and at risk than what you want. You and others may be fine taking on those risks. However, the harm that could potentially result to Apple's brand should there be a major attack on customer's security/privacy/ransomeware/etc is something they'd never compromise on.

Apple has roughly 1 billion active customers. If you and just 9,999 of those customers (0.001%) choose to take on security/privacy/ransomeware/etc risks and end up with their lives being severely ruined/compromised/damaged, resulting in a ton of negative publicity and lawsuits hitting Apple (despite you and others agreeing to accepting the potential consequences), why should Apple be forced to endure that harm to their brand - simply because you're willing to take that risk?

Apple will never take on that reputational risk. Some things are more important than what you're OK with.

You are right, but millions of iOS devices run older versions already anyway! There are millions of unsupported iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touches on active use already. It’s far more than 9,999 customers today.

No lawsuits will hit Apple, because for every 10,000 active users on older devices updated as far as they can go, us downgraders would be too few for Apple or anyone to care.

The reputational risk is almost zero. Why do I say this? Because users can already stay behind, Apple allows that. Yet almost nobody does. Not even on enthusiast forums.

 

[FeliApple]

Despite Apple’s recent move to separate security updates from normal software updates, I just always have this bizarre feeling that Apple one day will make all devices running latest software mandatory and cannot be changed by end user. Aka no one will have the option to downgrade, even beta testers.

While I doubt Apple won’t allow beta testers to downgrade, Apple definitely has the capability to force all iOS devices to the latest version. By deactivating them. They did it with A9 devices on iOS 9, they can do it to everything. I hope they don’t - and I don’t think they will - but the capability is already there.

That will be the day in which I leave iOS, never to return.

 

[bobcomer]

Why on earth would anyone who has already installed 16.4.1 want to downgrade to 16.4?

That's an easy answer -- if something in 16.4.1 doesn't work that did in 16.4 and the user needs it.

 

[Avenged110]

it is absolutely your device, but it isn’t your software. it is apple’s; they own the intellectual property and source code to iOS - therefore they have the ability to say whether or not they will continue signing a specific iOS version or not. you may not agree with it, which is entirely fine, but it is within their rights and abilities to stop signing older versions of iOS if they so choose.

regarding macOS mavericks, absolutely - that is a solid macOS version. however i honestly can’t really agree with your implication that ios 6 was good - for the time it absolutely was. but ios has matured a lot since then, and is a much better mobile operating system now than it was back then.

I never said or implied the company didn't have the legal ability to do what it's doing. Its policy is still incredibly stupid from my perspective, regardless of whatever business sense it may make, and I'm going to continue my time-tested tradition of complaining on Macrumors until it's rectified. And iOS certainly has more...functionality than it did back then, for better or worse.

 

[axantas]

I've been hearing about this possibility for years. However I have NEVER seen a single report of this happening. Millions of people use old, unupgraded, or non-upgradeable iOS and MacOS computers. When has it ever happened?

...you will know it, when your wallet or bank account is hacked because of one of these vulnerabilities. Do not blame anyone for it then.

It is some "one in a million" hit you read about in the newspapers, but there are things I do personally not want to experience, so I go for the updates.

Question: why would you not want to get these updates?

 

[I7guy]

Why is it different? The only way I can think of it being different is for users going way back, so Apple’s pathetic little yearly chart will get a little skewed towards older versions. Then again, I’d be interested in the actual numbers: how many of us would downgrade? I’d probably downgrade three devices:
-My 9.7-inch iPad Pro, which was forced from iOS 9 into iOS 12, back to iOS 10. My iPhone 6s would go through a similar process, but from iOS 13 instead.

In one case an out of date operating system is just that. You take on the risk. If apple allowed downgrading, apple takes on the risk. A reputation risk they probably aren’t willing to take on.

-My iPhone 5c, forced into iOS 10 from iOS 9 thanks to a boot loop, back to iOS 9 (not iOS 7, as any version prior to iOS 9.3 does not have Apple Music, which I need).

The rest run the oldest versions they can. How many people like me are there? Not many, not even on enthusiast forums like this one. The numbers would be negligible. Forum members in general aren’t even representative of the real world. I’m not even representative of forum members. We aren’t enough for this to matter, so why not do it? Very quietly flip a switch. Only enthusiasts would notice. Of those enthusiasts, a minuscule portion would downgrade.

Why don’t developers support older iOS versions? Because nobody runs them. Therefore they don’t care. This will be the same scenario.

But it’s insecure, so Apple shouldn’t want anything to run any version other than 16.4. It’s just not coherent.

An out of date operating system is on the user. Apple gives a generous 5 to 7 years of support.

As far as reputational damage goes, yes, it will obliterate the iPhone 6. Therefore it is okay for Apple not to support it. As far as downgrading goes, older devices already run older versions. Security updates aren’t guaranteed forever, and even though some versions get them, they don’t get all of them. Therefore, they’re insecure, therefore, those updates are irrelevant, therefore, they’re unsupported anyway. It just doesn’t add up.

I already explained it. You can ignore the explanation or not agree…but at some level it is what it is.

 

[I7guy]

You are right, but millions of iOS devices run older versions already anyway! There are millions of unsupported iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touches on active use already. It’s far more than 9,999 customers today.

Yes, it’s those users choice not to upgrade. Apple is not responsible, the user is.

No lawsuits will hit Apple, because for every 10,000 active users on older devices updated as far as they can go, us downgraders would be too few for Apple or anyone to care.

Correct. By not allowing downgrading there is no risk to apple.

The reputational risk is almost zero. Why do I say this? Because users can already stay behind, Apple allows that. Yet almost nobody does. Not even on enthusiast forums.

Apple is not responsible for you lack of upgrade.

 

[ddhhddhh2]

You also have the choice to go back to your ex girlfriend, if the new one sucks and the old one still wants you.

Yo, I gotta say, I wish I had the guts to tell my wife this, but lucky for me, she's still up to par in my book!

 

[FeliApple]

Yes, it’s those users choice not to upgrade. Apple is not responsible, the user is.

Correct. By not allowing downgrading there is no risk to apple.

Apple is not responsible for you lack of upgrade.

Apple is not responsible, agreed! Why should Apple even care? Allow downgrading, and if users have any issues arising from that, then I’m sorry, you shouldn’t have stayed behind on iOS updates.

Apple doesn’t allow downgrading, millions of devices run older versions anyway... and those who’d like to downgrade (because they were initially forced to update by Apple, or because battery life and/or performance suffer a little too much for the user’s liking) are doomed. All downsides.

 

[ninecows]

The usual. The latest versions hopefully have least amount of bugs.

Typo in your post. Should read
“… least amount of old, known bugs”. Fixed it for you 😉

 

[I7guy]

Apple is not responsible, agreed! Why should Apple even care? Allow downgrading, and if users have any issues arising from that, then I’m sorry, you shouldn’t have stayed behind on iOS updates.

I believe if you have to ask ask “why should apple even care” you have not been following like. Apple is about total control control of the experience.

Apple doesn’t allow downgrading, millions of devices run older versions anyway... and those who’d like to downgrade (because they were initially forced to update by Apple, or because battery life and/or performance suffer a little too much for the user’s liking) are doomed. All downsides.

Apple won’t allow down grading. (I mean they could start, but it’s not a high probability)

 

[ArrayDecay]

I'm shocked, shocked that downgrading is occurring in this establishment.

 

[FeliApple]

I believe if you have to ask ask “why should apple even care” you have not been following like. Apple is about total control control of the experience.

Apple won’t allow down grading. (I mean they could start, but it’s not a high probability)

Yeah, unfortunately they care too much sometimes (in detriment of their own users).

I reckon that they know a very small minority of users would like the possibility. They haven’t allowed us thus far, I reckon they won’t in the future either.

 

[citysnaps]

You are right, but millions of iOS devices run older versions already anyway! There are millions of unsupported iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touches on active use already. It’s far more than 9,999 customers today.

No lawsuits will hit Apple, because for every 10,000 active users on older devices updated as far as they can go, us downgraders would be too few for Apple or anyone to care.

The reputational risk is almost zero. Why do I say this? Because users can already stay behind, Apple allows that. Yet almost nobody does. Not even on enthusiast forums.

Apple and their attorneys no doubt have much better/more experience, information, and insight, based on history with respect to the risks Apple shoulders, along with measures to minimize that risk, than you. And have thus decided to move forward in the manner they have chosen given their complete knowledge and understanding of risk.

OTOH, perhaps you're an attorney that specializes in this field and can point out flaws in their thinking and decision, based upon your experience, and set them on the correct path.

Assuming that's not the case... since you have such a strong opinion on the subject, and are upset with Apple's stance, you do have an opportunity to vote with your currency and find happiness with a different mobile phone supplier.

 

[Rix__Mix]

Why is this even news?

 

[segfaultdotorg]

Downgrading is underrated. I recently switched back to Windows XP so I could use Outlook Express. It really is the best version of Outlook!

 

[macfacts]

Why doesn't apple have any courage to enable auto update.

 

[FeliApple]

Why doesn't apple have any courage to enable auto update.

You can enable automatic updates! (Fortunately they aren’t forced though).

 

[eveluvsrainbows]

You’d be right if updates guaranteed performance and battery life to be as good as they are on a device’s original version of iOS. Always. With no fail. Not a single fluctuation. You prevent downgrades? Okay, then updates should be as good as the original iOS versions. This is never true. In fact, updates always worsen the situation, given enough time.

I will say one thing though: what’s the only positive aspect about all of this? That at least Apple does not force updates in the same way they force them on AirPods, for example. Yes, you can’t restore to the same version and sometimes you are forced to; yes, Apple forced every A9 device on iOS 9 to update thanks to the activation bug (I was affected by this, twice). But barring specific issues like those, you can keep a device on an old iOS version if you like. I wouldn’t have any iOS device if that wasn’t the case. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro was forced by Apple into iOS 12 thanks to that bug, yes, but it remains on iOS 12. Barring any specific weird issue, it should remain there for its entire lifespan. If Apple were to set the “Automatic Updates” to “On”, and grey the button out... well, that would be catastrophic.

You can't guarantee performance and battery life to be the same from version to version though when it comes to smartphones - its impossible by both hardware and software standards. Hardware ages with time, especially the battery, and software gets harder to run as new features are added, which have the potential to put more strain on the increasingly aging hardware of the device such as the CPU and GPU. However, older versions of software also become subject to an intense amount of security vulnerabilities, especially when it comes to severely popular operating systems like iOS which runs on over 2 billion devices. Apple stops signing old iOS versions to prevent or at least try to prevent people from downgrading to insecure iOS versions, especially if a given iOS version has actively exploited security vulnerabilities that could impact an iOS user if they do something irresponsible, e.g. going to an infected website in Safari that exploits a security vulnerability in the WebKit engine.

And, as older versions of iOS age, they start to gradually lose support for new app versions, which means that if you do run an older iOS version and the app you're using drops support, the aforementioned app will eventually stop working due to the lack of updates, especially if it interfaces with a server or an API. You also lose the ability to go to an Apple Store to request help with your device if it runs an older iOS version. If you do, they'll more than likely upgrade your device to latest iOS version anyway.

 

[FeliApple]

You can't guarantee performance and battery life to be the same from version to version though when it comes to smartphones - its impossible by both hardware and software standards. Hardware ages with time, especially the battery, and software gets harder to run as new features are added, which have the potential to put more strain on the increasingly aging hardware of the device such as the CPU and GPU. However, older versions of software also become subject to an intense amount of security vulnerabilities, especially when it comes to severely popular operating systems like iOS which runs on over 2 billion devices. Apple stops signing old iOS versions to prevent or at least try to prevent people from downgrading to insecure iOS versions, especially if a given iOS version has actively exploited security vulnerabilities that could impact an iOS user if they do something irresponsible, e.g. going to an infected website in Safari that exploits a security vulnerability in the WebKit engine.

This is all true, factually correct, and undeniable. I think that if the device is severely degraded by iOS updates, then it is no longer useful for the user. If that’s the case... well, no theoretical security threat matters anymore.

You try to prevent theoretical threats, in exchange for the very real battery life and performance implications. That is probably the worst trade-off I can think of. Not worth it, in my opinion.

And, as older versions of iOS age, they start to gradually lose support for new app versions, which means that if you do run an older iOS version and the app you're using drops support, the aforementioned app will eventually stop working due to the lack of updates, especially if it interfaces with a server or an API. You also lose the ability to go to an Apple Store to request help with your device if it runs an older iOS version. If you do, they'll more than likely upgrade your device to latest iOS version anyway.

This is the worst consequence of updating. It’s the only thing that actually bothers those of us who don’t update. We know that there’s nothing we can do to mitigate this. We do what we can with what we have, but I will be honest: it’s a constant struggle to circumvent these limitations whilst keeping as much functionality going for as long as possible.

 

[Shirasaki]

While I doubt Apple won’t allow beta testers to downgrade, Apple definitely has the capability to force all iOS devices to the latest version. By deactivating them. They did it with A9 devices on iOS 9, they can do it to everything. I hope they don’t - and I don’t think they will - but the capability is already there.

That will be the day in which I leave iOS, never to return.

Before I would doubt Apple would willing to risk massive PR damage to pull the trigger by essentially rendering all older devices useless, but nowadays I am not sure. If removing headphone jack means nothing to Apple’s bottom line, deactivating your device the minute you can no longer receive latest software update would not hurt Apple in any meaningful way, especially since there will be millions die hard Apple fans attacking people with alternative opinions.

 

[Shirasaki]

Why doesn't apple have any courage to enable auto update.

Careful what you wished for.

 

[FeliApple]

Before I would doubt Apple would willing to risk massive PR damage to pull the trigger by essentially rendering all older devices useless, but nowadays I am not sure. If removing headphone jack means nothing to Apple’s bottom line, deactivating your device the minute you can no longer receive latest software update would not hurt Apple in any meaningful way, especially since there will be millions die hard Apple fans attacking people with alternative opinions.

They will never deactivate an updated device, even if it isn’t current, but they could try to deactivate anything that’s not updated. An iPhone Xʀ that’s not on iOS 16? Deactivated. An iPhone 6s that’s not on iOS 15.7.3? Deactivated. I don’t think they will, it’s too far-fetched, but they can.

It would bring them too many headaches, though.