Apple Stores Pulling Non-Universal Binaries?

[matticus008]

Most of the kid games for my 4 year old by example do not require classic but are PPC only. Don't see Scholastic going UB by example. And I am not sure on the Disney games either. For now, no UB for those.
How can people just state it will not affect anyone? It may not affect YOU, but it will others.

So you're saying that games you already own will stop being sold? This doesn't seem to affect anyone. Even without a platform change, those titles come and go. Children's games should work fine under Rosetta anyway, and of course new titles will now be released as universal binaries. Again, no adverse impact.

 

[tny]

1. Apple most likely will keep one PPC PowerMac around for a while for those who depend upon good performance on non-universal apps, just as they kept a single G4 PowerMac around for a while after the G5 transition for those who had to boot Classic.

2. I think folks are missing the real point here: the underselling apps that are being dropped are being dropped to make more space for iPod accessories. Pretty soon, at least half the space at the average Apple Store will be dedicated to the iPod and its accessories. Apple now sees the iPod to be as important to its future as the Mac.

3. The most important thing about having software in the Apple Store is that it serves as a marketing boost for the hardware - when someone goes to an Apple Store to shop for computers, seeing a lot of the applications they need (Photoshop, Office, Acrobat, Flash) or at least *think* they need reassures them that buying the Mac is a good investment because there's plenty of software to choose from. While I can understand the decision to drop underselling software, I think the best thing for Apple to do would be to encourage small developers by having at least one section with a variety of very different low-selling applications, and so reassure buyers that the Macintosh isn't a two-trick pony.

4. As far as ditching non-UB software (other than the world-beaters from Adobe and Microsoft), that's a no-brainer: Apple is absolutely right to try to simplify the process for new users.

 

[MarcelV]

So you're saying that games you already own will stop being sold? This doesn't seem to affect anyone. Even without a platform change, those titles come and go. Children's games should work fine under Rosetta anyway, and of course new titles will now be released as universal binaries. Again, no adverse impact.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Stop telling that there will be no adverse impact for others. Not for you, clearly. But there will be for others.

And no, she doesn't have all of the titels. New titles, in development, yes, they probably will be UB. But there are quite a few, like Blue Clues etc, that will probably not be UB. So yes, I will be impacted, because Scholastic may not build them as UB, as will be the issue with Disney and Viacom based games and the availability thru the Apple store is gone.
And why that is a big deal? Because the Apple store has a kids corner where she is able to play the games and see if she likes them. Again, impact. Is there an impact for you? Guess not, so be happy and stop trying to force your view on others. Arguments to make your point are good, but stating that your view is a general rule is wrong.

 

[BenRoethig]

Apple ought to pull all Adobe products NOW. And make it impossilbe to run the old crap on intel macs
Then Adobe will have to stop piddling around

But if that backfires, they could be pulling the Apple logo off 1 infinite loop in Cupertino. With high profile products like adobe sells, Apple should be willing to put up money, people, and full support to get UniBin patches. Not having universal binaries hurts Apple much more than it does Adobe.

 

[Manatee]

I think it's a good move. I was in the Apple store the other day, looking for a new adventure game, and I asked which ones ran well (or ran at all) on Intel. There was disagreement among the staff, and I had to hop on the web and do some research before I could make a purchase. The way forward is obvious, and Apple should focus on stocking their own stores with the new breed of software.

I don't mean to discount the existing PowerPC client base. Those machines (many brand new) will be "current" for several years, and there still needs to be lots of software for them. I'm just talking about Apple's own stores.

 

[BenRoethig]

I think the Universal binary titles should have a large unibin sticker on them.

 

[DougTheImpaler]

I...uh...oops? Can't read.

I have PowerPC Macs so here's hoping they continue to at least require UniBins in Apple stores for a couple years yet. That means I'll still be able to get apps for my hardware.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Software? The Apple Store thinks it still sells non- Apple software? Ain't that a joke. Last time I was in the Apple Store @ Tysons Corner the software was stuck in the very back corner of the store. Most of the titles were kiddie and Edu stuff, some clipart, untilities, and other inconsequential stuff.

Whatever happened to the original Apple Store concept of showcasing quality Mac software? Oh yeah...the iPod became a hit.

I think the Universal binary titles should have a large unibin sticker on them.

Yep. Just like PPC software did during the transition days. They should also put a sticker on incompatible software like ARD that says "not compatible with Intel Macs." I'm pretty sure the general public at large had NO CLUE what the difference between PPC and UB software is. Apple has done a really poor job educating people thus far.

 

[digitalbiker]

Yep. Just like PPC software did during the transition days. They should also put a sticker on incompatible software like ARD that says "not compatible with Intel Macs." I'm pretty sure the general public at large had NO CLUE what the difference between PPC and UB software is. Apple has done a really poor job educating people thus far.

Maybe Apple's really poor job of educating people about the transition is the reason their stock has been tanking since January.

Since all the Intel hype Apple stock has gone from 86 to 60. That's a drop of just over 40% in 3 months.

Great going, Steve!

 

[DougTheImpaler]

Even at 60, Apple is overvalued just based on the price/earnings ratio alone.

P/E of THIRTY-TWO?!

That's ridiculous. But it has nothing to do with the Intel switch; it was just long overdue.

 

[yac_moda]

Even at 60, Apple is overvalued just based on the price/earnings ratio alone.

P/E of THIRTY-TWO?!

That's ridiculous. But it has nothing to do with the Intel switch; it was just long overdue.

My rule in the 90s, when the market was HOT, was to sell when the PE got to 64.

But then that rule obviously became irrelevant, I stopped worrying about it and made 340% year to year in my trading account and more then 100K.

I have made around 100%+ year to year about 4 or 5 times

I had to loose 50%+ 2 or 3 times to learn to do that, I also use all the margin can get, time the market, time the stock, sell on the slightest bad news -- you know all the things they tell you NOT TO DO !!!

This has NOT made me rich but it has kept me alive after being attacked most of my life.

The most important rule is trade you IRA account, don't leave it sitting there when the market is HOT !!!

Taxes will always kill YOU so trade IRA get into at least a million and then borrow from it or against it.

 

[yac_moda]

By your statement, I'm guessing you don't remember or even used programs like Photoshop 3.0, Corel Draw or Painter.

Photoshop has had plenty of competition, back in the early to mid 90's and even til today.

Corel Draw was the "cheap" PC equivilent which many print houses that did not have a lot of collateral or money used because you could buy a cheap PC and Draw and wow other small businesses by making business cards, flyers and such. Unfortunately, there are still many "print houses" that refuse to spend the extra money to go to the Adobe Collections and still use Draw with Publisher **shiver**.... Sweet God I hate Publisher.... That is one program that has almost lead to the down fall of page layout for brochures and flyers because secretaries around the globe instantly thought that they could design anything that me and my fellow artists could do. I always love when an office mule tries to hand me a Floppy Disk with a Publisher file on it for me to print out and I just laaaaaaaugh.... and then tell them to go kill themselves before I do it for them.

Back to Painter.....sorry for the Publisher rant.... I haven't used Painter for many a generation, but when I did use it, I could pretty much use it interchangeably with Photoshop 5.0.2. Sure there were things that Photoshop did better, but Painter was a nice alternative to the Photoshop/Illustrator combo.

You can actually break it down like this:
Photoshop/Painter/Fireworks/Corel Draw
Illustrator/FreeHand/Corel Draw/Painter
InDesign(Pagemaker also)/QuarkXPress/Word/Publisher **shudders**

Now granted, you can't use Fireworks to do all the types of things that you could do in Photoshop, but when you think about what someone would want to do in Photoshop for the web, Fireworks all of a sudden becomes competition.... well not anymore now that Adobe absorbed Macromedia, but you know what I mean.

FreeHand was a great substitute for Illustrator. Before Ill CS came out, I actually preferred FreeHand 9 and MX to Illustrator. And while InDesign has just bulldozed over Quark in the field, many a house still want Quark files.

So you can see that Photoshop as well as the others have had enough competiton over the course of their existance. Photoshop has had to evolve to survive and that is why it is the Big Dog on the block.

So was my argument a weak one to you?

That wasn't competition

Those weren't softwar companies, they were marketing companies that bought other peoples messes, and then made a bigger one of their own

SOON Apple will buy Adobe and then REPLACE PHOTOSHOP with something that DOESN'T SUUUCK


OK come on, think up another one, find another RUBBER BISKET to throw against the wall !!!

YOU think Painter IS COMPETITION for PhotoPLOP !?!?!?! What planet have you been smoking

 

[DougTheImpaler]

I'm sorry yac_moda but based on the way you've been ranting like a six-year-old this entire thread, I don't buy your financial advice.

 

[milo]

or forcing PowerPC users to switch even sooner too.

i really want to know what IBM did to piss Apple off this badly?

Universal binaries run on PPC. How does selling a universal binary force PPC users to switch?

And IBM didn't piss off apple as much as motorola/freescale, who couldn't ship a decent chip for laptops.

(snip...)Therefore Apple is limiting choice at their stores for PPC machines.

Apple has always limited choice in their stores. Their stores aren't that big and have a limited section devoted to software. They simply can't stock every mac app. Stocking only UB apps won't reduce the number of titles, it will just switch the selection to different ones. And this likely won't hurt revenue for them at all.

 

[yac_moda]

I'm sorry yac_moda but based on the way you've been ranting like a six-year-old this entire thread, I don't buy your financial advice.

Common Sense RULE #1: Watch out for and STAY AWAY FROM the people that everyone likes, THEY ARE EVIL ! If YOU have something worth saying first EVERYONE will hate you, then your courage will enable OTHERS who are WORTH KNOWing


Its NOT for sale, YOU know how 6 year olds act ??? WHOs SIX YEAR OLDs HAVE YOU BEEN HANGING OUT WITH ...

... we have SPECIAL PLACES for people like YOU


Maybe YOU have been watching TOO much South-park (YOU consider yourself to be an 8 year old) ...

... YOU should have been STUDYING instead of watching SP !!!


Where do all these kids (Emotional and metal age !) come from who, rant and rave (Only in groups), believe they live in a CORRUPT SYSTEM and then DON"T participate in the only natural RATIONAL system and when they do ALWAYs take the advice of the corrupt people who try to get credibility from that rational system which they don't understand, appreciate, and disrespectfully and cowardly spit upon

PhotoShop was once a Great Country but now is a LOST CIVILIZATION ...

... SOON it will be remade by an OLDER culture that is re-finding its roots and returning to them, they will tantalize and amaze us, by cloaking it in anothers clothes, and we will BUY it and it will be yours and our undoing !!!

But the world will be a better place for it.



Common Sense RULE #10: If YOU are too DUMB to hear it, I will be too SMART to say it !!!

 

[yac_moda]

Universal binaries run on PPC. How does selling a universal binary force PPC users to switch?

And IBM didn't piss off apple as much as motorola/freescale, who couldn't ship a decent chip for laptops.




Apple has always limited choice in their stores. Their stores aren't that big and have a limited section devoted to software. They simply can't stock every mac app. Stocking only UB apps won't reduce the number of titles, it will just switch the selection to different ones. And this likely won't hurt revenue for them at all.

Milo is RIGHT, I thought the Apple store software was always about putting a SPOTLIGHT on special software efforts that exceed the norm with quality

 

[matticus008]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Stop telling that there will be no adverse impact for others. Not for you, clearly. But there will be for others.

There's just not. The games that the Apple stores stocked last year are gone anyway. Games that they have now won't be around forever, even if they didn't decide to cull all non-universal titles.

And no, she doesn't have all of the titels. New titles, in development, yes, they probably will be UB. But there are quite a few, like Blue Clues etc, that will probably not be UB.

What? You're saying that new games will probably be universal, but Blue's Clues won't be? That doesn't seem to come out of any logical process.

So yes, I will be impacted, because Scholastic may not build them as UB, as will be the issue with Disney and Viacom based games and the availability thru the Apple store is gone.

There will be universal titles available from Scholastic--they have always supported the Mac in education markets. There will still be some games in July. The titles they carry now would change anyway after about 6 months as new games are released. In this case, they'll be UB new games, instead of just new games. This doesn't reflect any new issue to be concerned about.

And why that is a big deal? Because the Apple store has a kids corner where she is able to play the games and see if she likes them. Again, impact.

There will still be a kid's corner where she will still be able to play new games and you'll still be able to buy the ones she likes. You're creating an issue where there is none.

Is there an impact for you? Guess not, so be happy and stop trying to force your view on others. Arguments to make your point are good, but stating that your view is a general rule is wrong.

There's not one for you, either. You just don't seem to see it. You seem to be concerned about maintaining a selection of a type of software that changes throughout the year anyway. Yes, the exact games they have on the shelf today might be replaced with different games in a few months, just like the ones on today replaced others several months ago. The switch to all-universal software will be almost entirely transparent. It's highly unlikely that any vendor selling software at the Apple stores now is going to give up that revenue stream by neglecting Universal binaries--and every title they carry that is sufficiently popular has the resources to release Universal versions. If there's a specific title they stop carrying, you can do what you do now when they don't have something you want--check Amazon or CompUSA or wherever.

 

[dcr]

I HAVE NO INSIDE INFORMATION, I JUST KNOW HOW THESE THINGS WERK !!!

No, you don't. For example:

2. Since Xcode compiles C and C++, JUST LIKE METROWERKS, and they are BOTH ANSI compliant and they are both based on the GNU compiler for C and C++ your apprehension really HOLDS NO WATER

Metrowerks is not based on the GNU compiler. There is plenty of legal C++ code which doesn't compile in MW but does in XCode or vice-versa. I know because I've converted a very large project (millions of lines of C++ code) from MW to XCode.

and the decision to use an OEM version of Virtual PC that MS will sell to developers that want to program with C sharp and ship that SAME version for the Mac, which would launch into a VPC kernel.

Let me get this straight -- Microsoft is selling a Mac version of the C# runtime, VPC *and* an library version of WinFX APIs ported to Mac/PPC+Intel and Adobe's going to use it to port Photoshop? Why on Earth would Adobe tie its flagship graphics product to Microsoft technology? Complete hogwash.

 

[yac_moda]

No, you don't. For example:



Metrowerks is not based on the GNU compiler. There is plenty of legal C++ code which doesn't compile in MW but does in XCode or vice-versa. I know because I've converted a very large project (millions of lines of C++ code) from MW to XCode.




Let me get this straight -- Microsoft is selling a Mac version of the C# runtime, VPC *and* an library version of WinFX APIs ported to Mac/PPC+Intel and Adobe's going to use it to port Photoshop? Why on Earth would Adobe tie its flagship graphics product to Microsoft technology? Complete hogwash.

"library version of WinFX APIs ported to Mac/PPC+Intel" <-- YOU said this NOT ME !!!

"Why on Earth would Adobe tie its flagship graphics product to Microsoft technology?"
So it will run faster, just like YOU said in your previous arguments !

YOU ARE RIGHT what YOU just said is COMPLETE HOGWASH.


YOU are RIGHT it does NOT use the GNU compiler ...

http://developer.apple.com/tools/movingfromcodewarrior.html
"There are some key differences between CodeWarrior and Xcode, both on the surface and down in the internals, and the degree to which they affect your application and how easily it builds will depend on several factors. In some cases, and depending on your application's complexity, the differences may not affect you directly. For example, Xcode uses the open source GNU Compiler Collection (GCC) 4 under the hood to build and link applications. In contrast, CodeWarrior includes a custom compiler, which has its own strengths, weaknesses and differences. If you use compiler-specific directives in your CodeWarrior project, you may need to replace or remove those directives. You may also have some tweaking to do because GCC 4 is more standards-compliant than CodeWarrior, and may flag issues in your code that the CodeWarrior compiler passes over."

AND CodeWarrior is NOT STANDARDS-COMPLIANT ...
"You may also have some tweaking to do because GCC 4 is more standards-compliant than CodeWarrior"

Well, then its your own *$#%^ fault for using that louse piece of GUU !!!


I remember back in 94 when I was working with programmers that later went to Adobe and they were using the GNU compiler.

Here you go YOU need a WISSSERD to import your code ...
http://developer.apple.com/tools/movingfromcodewarrior.html

Notice the "Import CodeWarrior Project" dialog ...

I am pretty good with PERL for 200$ an hour I will write you a script that will import your code PERFECTLY and AUTOMATICALLY !!!

Oh yah, YOU would NEVER do it that WAY because YOU are one of those MAKE WORK programmers, not a GET IT DONE AND SHIPPED programmer


WELL ! NOW THERE IS A RUMOR OF VIRTUALIZATION SOFTWARE ...

... which would allow Photoshop to launch into the OS of its choice SO I AM CERTAIN ADOBE IS HOLDING BACK SO THEY CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO CREATE A SINGLE VERSION FOR THE PLATFORMS THEY WANT TO BE ON.

So I was RIGHT and all the reason YOU gave were WRONG !!!



By the way when I found an obscure article a couple of years ago about Intel funding an Open Source startup that had virtualization software that made transparent virtual OSs, it was titled something "The Death of The OS"

I throw it in Apple's suggestion box as quickly as I could, and told them I did NOT think it was the death of the OS but could be for the CPU. I suggested that they USE it and, SWITCH TO INTEL, which I suggested multiple times in multiple ways !!!

And told them to use it to make a self optimizing computer with at least 2 full time OSs, one to run and the other to watch the one that was running and optimize the code, and use the age old translation software from the 040/PPC transition to do it with.

AND AFTER THAT ADD ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, with the 2 brain method, AND MAKE ROBOTS

You EVERYTHING that is autonomous has 2 sides, 2 points of view, it creates conversation and conflict, and THAT creates !!!

The human brain is LOADed with opposing information depose that evaluate the same info in fundamentally different ways, they communicate to determine something and then pass the information on to other parts of the brain.

The conversation of the conflict is the fundamental force driving intelligence.

 

[yac_moda]

Would somebody PLEASE TELL ME wwwhhhyyy does Photoshop SUCK SOOO BAAAD

889 Reasonations WHHHY Photoshop SUCKs !!!
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q="photoshop+sucks"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Photoshop Sucks !!! Free Mp3 Download ...
http://www.last.fm/music/Apoptygma+Berzerk/_/Photoshop+Sucks

 

[BenRoethig]

Would somebody PLEASE TELL ME wwwhhhyyy does Photoshop SUCK SOOO BAAAD

889 Reasonations WHHHY Photoshop SUCKs !!!
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q="photoshop+sucks"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Photoshop Sucks !!! Free Mp3 Download ...
http://www.last.fm/music/Apoptygma+Berzerk/_/Photoshop+Sucks

Simple, we have a very low percentage of the market and Adobe doesn't want to spend that kind of money on the platform.

 

[yac_moda]

Simple, we have a very low percentage of the market and Adobe doesn't want to spend that kind of money on the platform.

¡¡¡ WoOoW !!!

IS THAT REALLY TRUE

If it IS then WHY does Adobe's stock RISE AND DROP WITH APPLE's



http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0603adobeproductionstudio.html
"Adobe planning Mac version of Production Studio
By Ryan Katz, Senior Editor

March 15, 2006 - Sources familiar with Adobe's plans report the company intends to release a Mac version of Production Studio 2, marking the return of Premiere to the Mac as well as the first Mac versions of Encore DVD and Audition.



Adobe abandoned support for the Mac version of its Premiere video editing software nearly three years ago, following stiff competition from Apple's Final Cut line that eroded Adobe's marketshare on the Mac platform."

 

[atomiton]

This is a rumour. And you're lambasting Apple for a RUMOUR!

 

[Tupring]

I'm not getting an intel mac until all the adobe/and former macromedia apps are intel optomized.

Well, I'm simply just not getting an Intel Mac.

 

[Tupring]

This strikes me as being somewhat premature but something definitely needs to be done to ensure that consumer confusion is mitigated as much as possible ("Hey, why does program A run like crap on my Intel iMac?"). However, given that most of the Mac world will be running PowerPC-based systems for some time to come, and that the migration of Apple's own lines of computers is far from complete, it seems a bit early to be preventing their user base from being able to access existing titles that will run great on most people's Mac.

A bit of a double-edged sword issue, I think.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me either. Why is Apple catering so much to all the switchers? If they didn't switch to Intel in the first place, all these new users would not exist and we would not be in this predicament.