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The patent is pretty specific. Basically it compares the hardware/software config from post and if it matches the prior boot, it load a RAM snapshot from disk.
Just because it's inconvenient and obvious, doesn't mean that it's not specific.

Ok, it's specific. But in this case you also admitted it's obvious. Patents aren't ever supposed to be obvious and hence the reason I said it's simply an optimized boot routine. There are any number of ways to speed up an OS boot by varying amounts. If they allowed a patent on all of them, no one would ever be able to write any code for fear of breaking someone's patent. Anyone who has programmed knows how you do something can be very different in terms of efficiency with just a few call changes, even. Code can be compatible with other code and still not be close to identical. LIke I said, there are many ways to skin a cat. Copyrights should be more than sufficient to protect software.

The patent specifically mentions storing the RAM snapshot on the HDD.

Oh, so if they stored it in NVRam or even a motorized and computer controlled abacus instead, then it doesn't violate the patent? :confused:

Do you see how stupid this stuff gets in a very short amount of time under patent law? A patent should be along the lines of a diagram of a water powered mill design to ground flour a certain way. If someone else makes a design that uses a water powered mill that does it a different way, that should not violate the patent. A patent should be specific, not at all obvious and not built upon on a natural process or other previous ideas. Patents should be a relatively rare thing, not something handed out for every nut and bolt part. A new advanced method to create an alloy with previously unknown properties might be a good candidate. It's something that takes research and advanced knowledge to create, not someone looking at a cloud and seeing a 'super man' and deciding to patent a toy line of 'action figures' and so no one else is allowed to make super hero action figures. It's that specific character that needed protection (copyright) not the entire concept of action figures, comic books, etc. But it's the latter that patents protect.

Anyone else that creates something that does the same basic thing, even if in a different way with different code (having never seen the code in question in uncompiled form), they get sued. And hell, with the U.S. Court system, even if they aren't in violation they can get sued right out of business due to a lack of money to defend themselves. The system sucks and it discourages development of products that would offer more choices to the consumer. But then, that's what big businesses want. They would rather pay BILLIONS for a patent so they can 'monopolize' (in a sense) an entire market or sub-market than just compete for the consumer's dollars with the best product. That's because it's not about Capitalism (whose heart is competition), it's just about basic greed and any way to get there is OK.

Seriously, look at your post history. Every single comment has been a shot against Apple or its fans. Get a life mate.

Yeah and how many on here spend their entire posting histories worshiping Apple? It's none of your bloody business what their opinions are or how they post. This isn't the church of Apple forums. We don't have to like the company to use their products. Get over it.

Patents are not about ideas, they are about methods to implement ideas. 2 companies could very much implement GPS into a controller for telescopes and both have a patent for doing it.

It's the method that needs to be obvious for the patent to be rejected, not the idea itself.

Oh BULLCRAP. That example is a perfect one. They issued a flipping patent based on both derivative and obvious use of prior works. The person did NOT invent GPS or telescopes. Connecting one to the other is not flipping rocket science nor does it take a genius to figure it out. The fact someone could write in an suggest it without a single thought towards making a dime and ends up screwing everyone out of reasonable priced options shows how freaking stupid these patent offices are and how screwed up the system is. (now comes the usual posturing reply in return :rolleyes: )
 
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Ok, it's specific. But in this case you also admitted it's obvious. Patents aren't ever supposed to be obvious and hence the reason I said it's simply an optimized boot routine. There are any number of ways to speed up an OS boot by varying amounts. If they allowed a patent on all of them, no one would ever be able to write any code for fear of breaking someone's patent. Anyone who has programmed knows how you do something can be very different in terms of efficiency with just a few call changes, even. Code can be compatible with other code and still not be close to identical. LIke I said, there are many ways to skin a cat. Copyrights should be more than sufficient to protect software.



Oh, so if they stored it in NVRam or even a motorized and computer controlled abacus instead, then it doesn't violate the patent? :confused:

Do you see how stupid this stuff gets in a very short amount of time under patent law? A patent should be along the lines of a diagram of a water powered mill design to ground flour a certain way. If someone else makes a design that uses a water powered mill that does it a different way, that should not violate the patent. A patent should be specific, not at all obvious and not built upon on a natural process or other previous ideas. Patents should be a relatively rare thing, not something handed out for every nut and bolt part. A new advanced method to create an alloy with previously unknown properties might be a good candidate. It's something that takes research and advanced knowledge to create, not someone looking at a cloud and seeing a 'super man' and deciding to patent a toy line of 'action figures' and so no one else is allowed to make super hero action figures. It's that specific character that needed protection (copyright) not the entire concept of action figures, comic books, etc. But it's the latter that patents protect.

Anyone else that creates something that does the same basic thing, even if in a different way with different code (having never seen the code in question in uncompiled form), they get sued. And hell, with the U.S. Court system, even if they aren't in violation they can get sued right out of business due to a lack of money to defend themselves. The system sucks and it discourages development of products that would offer more choices to the consumer. But then, that's what big businesses want. They would rather pay BILLIONS for a patent so they can 'monopolize' (in a sense) an entire market or sub-market than just compete for the consumer's dollars with the best product. That's because it's not about Capitalism (whose heart is competition), it's just about basic greed and any way to get there is OK.

Your scenarios about allocating patents to completely original ideas and implementations like the alloy, or my personal favorite:

A patent should be specific, not at all obvious and not built upon on a natural process or other previous ideas.

truly misses the point of innovation.
 
people amaze me, so it's ok for Apple to sue over patents and all the fanboys support it, but when Apple gets sued all the fanboys say that Apple is incapable of intellectual theft, please....

Welcome to the "real" world... In a year from now, the same people will say that Android stole the notification from iOS and the online activation from iCloud. The same people also still firmly believe that Apple invented the graphical user interface and the mouse. And they probably also believe that Apple invented the Internet...
 
Your scenarios about allocating patents to completely original ideas and implementations like the alloy, or my personal favorite:

truly misses the point of innovation.

And yours misses the point about Capitalism supposedly being good for consumers by offering more choices through competition. Abstract, unoriginal and derivative patents work to defeat competition. Innovation should not mean automatic monopoly. Patent law needs a big overhaul. The more abstract and derivative an idea is, the shorter the time frame of the patent should be for them to solely profit from it. If the telescope maker had a patent for two years on exclusive GPS use, it wouldn't be so bad for consumers. But giving a company 20 years of exclusivity on something that is completely derivative is ridiculous.

If someone else put up different satellites that obtained latitude and longitudinal data by a completely different method and another telescope company used a receiver for that system, does that violate that patent? It's doing the exact same thing, but clearly gets there using something that's not called "GPS" and so it doesn't violate the patent. :rolleyes:

Telescopes made before this still had tracking once you manually entered the latitude and longitude data. HOW you get that data is IRRELEVANT. I can look at my own pocket GPS and just type in the numbers and that's OK, but if I connect it up and let the computer read the data itself, it's a patent violation? I can't believe some of you cannot see how ridiculous that is. :rolleyes:

That's not 'innovating' (the GPS system itself is what was innovative), but rather automating (you no longer have to type in the data, the computer reads it directly). WTF does that deserve a patent?
 
patent wars 5.

coming to xbox 360 and ps3 this fall.

could be a fun game, players in the game are lawyers researching obscure details to sue each other and win points.
 
Ok, it's specific. But in this case you also admitted it's obvious.
My point was in response to a poster who suggested that the LG patent was a generic patent, covering any form of boot optimization. After reading it, I don't find this to be the case. It has a very specific is scope.
I have also stated earlier that the patent is weak/obvious. I agree that it would probably fail a legal challenge. ;)

Patentable ideas should be sufficiently complex so that a company should never find them selves accidentally in violation. If two engineers come up with the same solution to a problem, the solution should be considered too obvious.
The main issue in patent law is that they are too risky and expensive to challenge. Giving to much power to the holder of a bad patent.
 
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Welcome to the "real" world... In a year from now, the same people will say that Android stole the notification from iOS and the online activation from iCloud. The same people also still firmly believe that Apple invented the graphical user interface and the mouse. And they probably also believe that Apple invented the Internet...

No no no. Steve invented the Internet after he'd been fired from Apple.
 
I realize BIOS is pretty darn similar to EFI in function, however the process is different. EDIT: It appears as if the patent is quite broad in it's definition of BIOS.

I fail to see the big issue here. This patent shouldn't stick IMO, although I guess it will come down to interpretation.
 
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Patentable ideas should be sufficiently complex so that a company should never find them selves accidentally in violation.

If two engineers come up with the same solution to a problem, the solution should be considered too obvious.

That's what I think. Take any software patent application and give just the reason behind it (in other words, the real world problem it supposedly solves in a unique way) to a closed room of experienced software engineers and see if they come up with the same method.

For example, I guarantee you that any experienced multitouch programmer would come up with Apple's ridiculously simple patented solution, of using different numbers of fingers to scroll embedded screen areas, as at least one of several possible answers. It is, after all, the whole point of having a multitouch option.
 
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How you can even patent an idea to 'Fast Booting' a computer is beyond me, if the judge has any clue this patent will be invalidated.

As far as I can tell, the ideas mentioned all date back to the 80's-- before you could patent stuff like that. Ridiculous.
 
Wrong. Macs do not use BIOS. They have a BIOS compatibly module added for dual booting support into windows but OS X does not use it in their boot process.

Intel macs did not initially even ship with a BIOS module because OS X boots quickly from EFI and then ignores it for the rest of the process.

How do I know this? Because I bought one of the first Intel MBPs and I experimented with booting into windows with a third party hack called Re-EFIt until Apple released and update to the MBP firmware with the Bootcamp beta which I also tested.

At this point we're just debating the meaning of words. Macs don't "use BIOS" as their lowest-level environment like PCs, but they "use BIOS" in that they provide a BIOS implementation for EFI. I also used those solutions for booting Windows back in the day.

Windows has supported EFI for a long time

That's not true. The only consumer edition of Windows that supports EFI is Windows 7 64-bit, which only came out two years ago.

* I was under the impression that Macs include an implementation of BIOS anyway, but I certainly don't know that for sure.

They do.
 
At this point we're just debating the meaning of words. Macs don't "use BIOS" as their lowest-level environment like PCs, but they "use BIOS" in that they provide a BIOS implementation for EFI. I also used those solutions for booting Windows back in the day.

The patent did not use "BIOS" as a synonym for "AT-compatible PC BIOS", instead it was defining "BIOS" to be an acronym for "basic input output system".

UEFI, and Apple's old EFI implementation, are "basic input output systems", although they are not PC-compatible BIOS.


That's not true. The only consumer edition of Windows that supports EFI is Windows 7 64-bit, which only came out two years ago.

Windows 2000 (and subsequent) supported EFI for some configurations. XP IA64 supported it, and for 2008/Vista x64 after SP1 UEFI is supported.
 
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Patents are not about ideas, they are about methods to implement ideas. 2 companies could very much implement GPS into a controller for telescopes and both have a patent for doing it.

It's the method that needs to be obvious for the patent to be rejected, not the idea itself.

I'm pretty sure that in the telescope example I gave above the implementations of GPS integration into the telescope controllers were different, but it made no difference.

In any case, as soon as I heard that human 'genes' (actually DNA sequences thought to be genes) of unknown function were being patented, I was convinced the patent system was out of hand. The funny thing is that as companies pressured politicians to let them cash in on any half-baked, vague or airy-fairy patent, they failed to understand how the new patent environment would affect them in the future. Well, those chickens are truly coming home to roost, and we, the consumers, are going to have to pay for it (again). The only winners will be lawyers. I see this LG lawsuit as an example of this.
 
How you can even patent an idea to 'Fast Booting' a computer is beyond me, if the judge has any clue this patent will be invalidated.

you must have not heard of the fiasco over the terms "app store" vs "appstore".

you decide what is more ridiculous. ;)
 
you must have not heard of the fiasco over the terms "app store" vs "appstore".

you decide what is more ridiculous. ;)

Ask General Motors. They couldn't decide whether they liked "Sting Ray" or "Stingray" better, so they just ditched it altogether after trying both. :D

Patenting genes... I guess I don't even own my own genes anymore. If I try to cure myself of cancer with gene therapy, I could be sued for patent infringement. I guess 'God' doesn't count as a prior patent owner or the Sumerian Annunaki who some claim to have created our hybrid bodies, etc. Maybe it's because we don't have a trade agreement with them. :D
 
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