Apple Sued Over Meltdown and Spectre in U.S. as iPhone Slowdown Lawsuits Now Total 45

[rootee]

Would you be upset if your F150 horsepower got halved when your battery was 1 year old, and the dealership said they won’t change your battery because the battery passes their tests, and then just recommend that you buy a new truck if more horsepower is what your after?

Love the way you folk try to draw equivalences in all manner of things. Just recently the debacle was compared to Tylenol. Now here's you saying the same thing about F150's with full sized batteries.

The battery on the F150 does NOT - I repeat NOT affect performance of the vehicle. The battery does NOT - Again I repeat NOT - provide power to the powertrain. In fact, the F150 can start with a totally dead battery if it's jumped. Once started, you can then drive at top speed whilst the battery recharges from the alternator.

Sheesh - if you were going to try the equivalency game, then the least you could have done is done it with a Volt or Prius - you know, something that DOES need a battery to do anything.

I think you need to read the entire quoted chain here — I was riffing off of someone else. But you say that a car battery doesn’t effect the performance of the car... well an unthrottled phone wouldn’t either, would it. That was the intent of the quoted comment, not that the analogy was spot on.

 

[lucansmiles]

One acronym sinks much of this: EULA

EULA is not law and there is great chance that some paragraphs in an EULA are against the law. Most EULAs contain at least some against-the-law stuff. Again, only speaking for Europe. I know nothing about the U.S.

 

[sir1963nz]

If Apple made stuff that actually "just works" it wouldn't get sued.

They do. However Chemistry and Physics gets in their way. There is (currently) no technology that gives us a battery that does not degrade with usage.


You may as well be complaining that the tyres on your car wear out.

 

[sbailey4]

Wait until they take out the throttling code. Your iPhone comes to a complete stop with a weak battery.

I did somewhat agree with the new power management code initially BUT after more thought and remembering back, the older phones before the 6 never had such issues. The device would run down toward 1% then shut off (not 30-40%) as starting with the 6. Second point, prior to 10.2.1, there was a limited recall for defected batteries for the iP6s that were "left too long in open air during manufacturing" or some BS. They replaced the batteries for devices with certain S/N but shortly after came up with the 'feature' in 10.2.1 to further address that issue. So could that mean that those devices or batteries for those devices were mostly all defective? And the solution rather than a huge recall was to 'fix' it with a 'feature' in an software update? I dunno.

My wife has a launch day iP6 (orig batt) and its still showing 90% battery health and she is on it almost non-stop daily. My 2 yr + iP6s is showing 86%. Neither of us has had random shutdowns at 30% or whatever. She says her device seems slower at times (I suspect its the throttling) or just iOS 11 in general. But potentially she could have used her device full on until the battery is at 1% or below if not for the new 'feature'. So now I am a bit on the fence with this whole deal and wondering if in fact it was really a necessary "feature".

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

They do. However Chemistry and Physics gets in their way. There is (currently) no technology that gives us a battery that does not degrade with usage.


You may as well be complaining that the tyres on your car wear out.

Nah, nobody complains here that the battery degrades. People complain that Apple tried to cover up the battery degradation with throttle software without telling anyone. With a nice side effect that people thought they needed a new phone.

You are oversimplifying things here.

And why do people keep coming up with these car comparisons?

 

[joeblow7777]

Yes, we throttle your phones. Why of course it is a feature!

2018 when people are okay with their phones being throttled.

Because that's the injustice in this world for which apathy is outrageous?

 

[jav6454]

I respectfully disagree.
Those ARM CPUs are not only in iPhones.
There are countless politicians, lawyers, bankers etc. in the US and the rest of the world who are using an iPad pro as their daily computer instead of a laptop. Remember Apple saying that the iPad Pro can replace a laptop?
Can you guarantee that Apple's ARM CPUs are not used for sensitive information? Don't think so.

I can't guarantee it. It just seems counter intuitive to use a consumer grade device to access military or highly confidential information. Reason as to why the Secret Service imposes a device on the president. Moreover, why only certain devices can be used to access said information.

I am not saying entirely they are not used for it, but these devices are not meant to.

I think you got it all wrong. I think my iphone is more secure than a PC or Mac. The phone is behind a wall garden of curated and screened apps and protected by passcode, Touch id or faceid. The iPhone is probably the most secure device out there.

Encryption wise yes. There is a reason why the FBI hates Apple.

True, but if Intel are not found guilty (and there's way more chance of them being sued than anyone else) then Apple and others are off the hook.

Not exactly. Intel is one case, Apple, AMD and ARM are a whole 'nother case. You can use historical cases to argue your point, but that doesn't mean an automatic acquital or guilty verdict.

 

[Maxx Power]

I saw no changes in performance after 11.2.2. My numbers for my 7+ are in line with numbers I had before the update. Which are in line with numbers from when the 7 was first released.

That's good news. Supposedly the iPhone 6 (which runs on the A8 chip) is the most affected at up to 40% performance drop. Anything newer should be much better after the patch.

 

[dampfnudel]

The slowing down due to batteries issue is lawsuit worthy, but not meltdown/spectre. Those aren't Apple's fault at all.

It's not Apple's fault, but it is Apple's responsibility because they did sell it and collected the money their customers gave them in return for the performance specifications Apple made sure to highlight at each product introduction. The responsible thing for Apple to do is to show their customers that they stand behind their products, especially when they fall short. Software mitigation is the first step, but that can only go so far and may in some situations degrade performance to the point that warrants further steps that might include some form of limited compensation. Apple's legal team will have to sort things out with Intel/ARM for any losses incurred.

 

[craig1410]

No iPhone 6's was shutting down. No iPhone 7 was shutting down. Facts.

The iPhone 7 isn't quite old enough to have degraded battery performance to the level where shutdowns could happen, but rest assured that will happen. Facts.

 

[thelookingglass]

I hope apple gets what comes to them. No reason for Apple to be throttling hardware I own.

Actually, there IS a reason. And a valid reason at that.

 

[Act3]

Actually, there IS a reason. And a valid reason at that.

and since the throttling happened a year or so after the phone was released, that valid reason is probably a design error or poor batteries

 

[EdT]

From the logic a lot of people seem to be following here, I guess that Google, Acer, Samsung, Dell and every other computer manufacturers or sellers should also be suing Apple because they also sold computers with the exact same defect, but it's only Apple's fault. And the fact that none of them came forward to tell their customers when they found out about the problem with Intel and AMD chips was because Apple was holding a metaphorical gun to their heads, the SAME gun they held to poor defenseless and innocent Intel and AMD's heads. AMD especially, because Apple doesn't even use their Windows compatible chips, but obviously wanted EVERYONE to suffer. And Tim Cook is evil. Or incompetent. Or something.

 

[kemal]

Why wasn't this filed in Texas? And by the way, What was the harm caused by Apple's speculative execution flaw?

 

[griz]

The slowing down due to batteries issue is lawsuit worthy, but not meltdown/spectre. Those aren't Apple's fault at all.

The slowing down lawsuits are ridiculous. If Apple is slowing the iPhone as part of power management to prevent the device from shutting down then the user is not being harmed. The alternative is to have the device shut down unexpectedly. Let's say that a car company decided to slow your car down for the last couple miles you were able to drive rather than only allowing you to go .1mile and then shut down. Would everyone file a lawsuit? Because that's exactly the same thing that is going on here. They are power managing the device to allow it to continue to be used even when the batter is in bad condition. The fact that they are offering battery replacements should make it clear that they are not looking to force obsolescence. I replaced my own battery at 3 years. I noticed a performance gain and I even expected it. As it seemed apparent to me that the device would not run as well under a battery with limited supply.
People need to stop with the entitled whining.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

The slowing down lawsuits are ridiculous. If Apple is slowing the iPhone as part of power management to prevent the device from shutting down then the user is not being harmed. The alternative is to have the device shut down unexpectedly. Let's say that a car company decided to slow your car down for the last couple miles you were able to drive rather than only allowing you to go .1mile and then shut down. Would everyone file a lawsuit? Because that's exactly the same thing that is going on here. They are power managing the device to allow it to continue to be used even when the batter is in bad condition. The fact that they are offering battery replacements should make it clear that they are not looking to force obsolescence. I replaced my own battery at 3 years. I noticed a performance gain and I even expected it. As it seemed apparent to me that the device would not run as well under a battery with limited supply.
People need to stop with the entitled whining.

And there are the car comparisons again... If you have to resort to car comparisons, you can't explain the real problem.

If it really was as simple as you say, why 45+ lawsuits and investigations world wide and counting? Has the whole world gone mad? Is this a global conspiracy against Apple? Of course not. Apple tried to cover something up without telling anyone. They where caught red handed and after that Apple had to admit it. The courts will decide who is right. But, unless the whole world has become insane, there are grounds to sue/investigate.

 

[EdT]

and since the throttling happened a year or so after the phone was released, that valid reason is probably a design error or poor batteries

I am not an expert on batteries, but I wondered both at the time and now if the desire to shave another millimeter or 2 of thickness off of the phones would impact battery life in a couple of years. I use Lithium Ion batteries as backup power in a lot of the machines that our company designs, and size definitely relates to service life for industrial equipment. As I stated before (in another thread?) I don't know the quality of the battery supplier Apple uses, and I have no idea what the standard (real) life is for most smart phone batteries, so I don't know if Apple is better, worse, or about the same as far as battery longevity is concerned. And I mean how long they really last, not how long Samsung, LG, Motorola, Google et al. claim they last.

 

[griz]

And there are the car comparisons again... if it really was that simple as you say, why 45+ lawsuits and investigations world wide and counting? Has the whole world gone mad? Is this a global conspiracy against Apple? Of course not. Apple tried to cover something up without telling anyone. They where caught red handed and after that Apple had to admit it. The courts will decide who is right. But, unless the whole world has become insane, there are grounds to sue/investigate.

No, it just shows that the world is full of litigious greedy people.

 

[tito2020]

I am not an expert on batteries, but I wondered both at the time and now if the desire to shave another millimeter or 2 of thickness off of the phones would impact battery life in a couple of years. I use Lithium Ion batteries as backup power in a lot of the machines that our company designs, and size definitely relates to service life for industrial equipment. As I stated before (in another thread?) I don't know the quality of the battery supplier Apple uses, and I have no idea what the standard (real) life is for most smart phone batteries, so I don't know if Apple is better, worse, or about the same as far as battery longevity is concerned. And I mean how long they really last, not how long Samsung, LG, Motorola, Google et al. claim they last.

Guys best news today imac made 10 years forget lawsuits for 1 day.

 

[gavroche]

Actually I am pretty amazed how uninformed people on this forum are about basic principles of law. You can only sue someone you have a contract with and only if you are the damaged party. So you can't sue someone for something that happed to someone else.

You are thinking of contract law... and even that doesn't require a formal written contract. The elements needed are offer, acceptance, and consideration. But you can still sue people and companies for many other causes of action. If your dog escapes from your house and bites my child... i guarantee that I can sue you, regardless of us having no contract. You can sue for negligence, fraud, theft, many things that don't involve contracts.
In the issue at hand... implied warranty of merchantability is more applicable.

 

[TiggrToo]

EULA is not law and there is great chance that some paragraphs in an EULA are against the law. Most EULAs contain at least some against-the-law stuff. Again, only speaking for Europe. I know nothing about the U.S.

EULA's have been upheld by US courts; in this circumstance it's not can Apple sue someone for breaking the contract, but did Apple break the contract as specified in their own EULA - and those circumstances it's looking at lot stronger for Apple. The area here is basically liability limitations, and those parts of a EULA have been found to be enforceable, for example (M. A. Mortenson Company, Inc. v. Timberline Software Corporation, et al, 1999)

Last I remember, Germany required EULA's to be signed prior to purchase for them to be enforceable; not being a member of that fine nation (although I plan to visit once I've learned the basics of the language) I cannot speak to what the process is now. Obviously other jurisdictions are different, but even where it's effect is weakened, courts will still take it into account before deciding liability.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

No, it just shows that the world is full of litigious greedy people.

Yes, and Apple is the poor nice, always honest company attacked by the litigious greedy people in a bad mad world. Makes sense.

 

[TiggrToo]

Not exactly. Intel is one case, Apple, AMD and ARM are a whole 'nother case. You can use historical cases to argue your point, but that doesn't mean an automatic acquital or guilty verdict.

Normally I'd agree with you, but Intel stands accused of the EXACT same 'crime'. The precedent alone of an Intel 'acquittal' would be enough to put any future lawsuits on such dodgy ground as to be DOA.

 

[Act3]

Yes, and Apple is the poor nice, always honest company attacked by the litigious greedy people in a bad mad world. Makes sense.

got to be a little bit greedy in order to get to be the world's first trillionaire company

 

[makingdots]

So how is any of this Apple's fault?

Not being transparent. Not giving an option if you prefer to throttle your phone or not. God, i love Apple but i hate these diehard apple apologist.