Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The battery and iOS slow downs yes, I understand the growing lawsuits about this, especially given the way Apple handled the information.

The Meltdown and Specter software related issues, nope not worth a lawsuit. The chipmakers are more at fault with this one.

Remember that with iOS devices, Apple is the chipmaker.

According to Apple, they designed the chips (CPU) inside the iPhone. And if uses licensed design components from ARM. But the chips inside the iPhone are not designed and produced by ARM, they are designed and produced by Apple, who uses some design elements from ARM under licensed permission.

So it is totally within Apple's capability and responsibility to modify the design of the chips used in iPhones and fix the flaw before sending out and additional defective parts to the wild.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HacKage
My understanding of the process Apple and others must follow in the event they're made aware of a bug, is they have X amount of time to acknowledge/address the issue before it should be made public. This window is to protect customers as if a vulnerability is shared before a fix is available, customers are at higher risk.

If in this case, Intel, Apple and others acted within the allowed timeframe, then what have they done wrong? They protected customers by not making details of the vulnerability public. They've addressed it with appropriate patches. I'm not sure what making customers aware earlier would have achieved, other than unnecessary and avoidable panic and risk.

I can see that case going nowhere.

The battery cases... it's a different matter but my personal view is that the only thing Apple is guilty of is poor communication. What they're doing actually makes sense. Given the choice, I'm sure most customers, given the choice, would opt for marginal drops in performance during peak processor activity over random shutdowns. But lets see what the courts decide there.

I think the problem here in saying most users would accept a marginal drop in performance given the choice all depends on where you define marginal. A 1% drop in performance might be considered marginal but not 30 to 60% as we are seeing. You may as well not buy a new phone if Apple is going to take the added speed bumps away with every update. As you say though lets see what the courts decide. As for the Intel issue I'm not sure about that just yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MH01
and since the throttling happened a year or so after the phone was released, that valid reason is probably a design error or poor batteries
Can’t speak for everyone but I have a 7 plus bought on launch day which was used every day until iPhone X came out and still reports 99.2% of design capacity at 232 cycles and still delivers full Geekbench scores.

Apple do sell AppleCare if you want 2 year coverage and do offer 1st party battery replacement, now at below cost price and yet you still complain? Maybe you could divert your angst into creating the perfect battery technology. :p
 
These are times when I wish Steve Jobs was alive, so he can just classically pull that middle finger and say the F word.

He would also not be hiding like Tim Cook is duiring this, so yeah , wish he was also still around. At least he lead from the front.
 
Lawyers can smell a pay day, how the hell is this Apples fault? Its like suing a car maker for faulty tires, this is hardly Apples fault and the parts supplier (Intel) needs the answer questions and maybe legal action.

But I ask you, has this fault led to losses or computers that stop working?
[doublepost=1516086556][/doublepost]
Yes, we throttle your phones. Why of course it is a feature!

2018 when people are okay with their phones being throttled.
Would you rather your iPhone just dies for no apparent reason?

This might explain why my old 5s would just restart for no apparent reason a few times in the last 12 months?
 
Can’t speak for everyone but I have a 7 plus bought on launch day which was used every day until iPhone X came out and still reports 99.2% of design capacity at 232 cycles and still delivers full Geekbench scores.

Apple do sell AppleCare if you want 2 year coverage and do offer 1st party battery replacement, now at below cost price and yet you still complain? Maybe you could divert your angst into creating the perfect battery technology. :p

Even under AppleCare Apple was refusing battery replacements, as they designed the battery test, which in my case said my 5S battery was fine, and though the genius replaced the unit, the new phone had 40% more battery life. The Apple 80% battery promise is a joke, as they have control over the whole process.
 
But Apple made no promises regarding the CPU speed to begin with. If the iPhone changed in dimensions or weight or screen size, the lawsuit could have merit. Featurewise, the iPhone does everything (and maybe more) than the specs stated.
 
Any manufacturer that knew the chips had a flaw, and still continued to use the chips with a flaw, because it saved a couple of bucks. Yes, they should be sued. But more importantly intel also needs to be sued. I don’t care if your Apple, or some guy that builds PCs in his garage as a hobby job, if you knew the chips were flawed, your responsible, and either need to recall, or compensate.
Yeah, fix a 20 year old computer science flaw immediately in an industry which designs new CPUs on a 3 year pipeline, and don’t ship any CPUs until you do! Oh and compensate everyone who bought a CPU in the last 20 years. And pay for that using your forest of evergreen money trees? Spoken like a true idealist.
 
As for the slow iPhones how will they determine any refund, I mean will they take into account that the new iPhone is going to be faster by the simple fact its 2-3 years newer, and how will owners prove there iPhone was unusable when they upgraded or you just used it as an excuse to get a new iPhone?

I know at least one friend how had a 6 and he knew it needed a new battery but decided to update to an 8 anyway, not because it was slower but because he wanted a new phone with better battery life. He could have saved a packet an got a new battery but didn't.
 
If you've ever driven a car near it's limit you'd know just how big a difference new vs worn tires are. Next time you walk past your car look at it from a distance. You're driving a 3,000lb vehicle on four contact patches each roughly the size of a softball. The difference between 0% tread wear and 20% is massive under hard acceleration.

You car will accelerate faster as the fuel tank gets emptier ;) car analogies don't work with iPhones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TiggrToo
If a car maker had a function in the car that resulted in poorer 0-60 acceleration and the function kicked in only to ensure that the car didn’t just stop in the middle of the road, would that be good or bad. Personally, I much prefer the continued use of the device as a trade of for CPU speed (which was never a promised spec to begin with).
 
Your car doesn't refuse to accelerate because its oil is dirty or the tires worn.
A car being operated near the limit of its performance can experience random crashes when the tires are worn.
If such a car was operating anywhere near me, I would fervently hope it would be throttled, regardless of whether that induced its owner to buy a new car.
 
Last edited:
Even under AppleCare Apple was refusing battery replacements, as they designed the battery test, which in my case said my 5S battery was fine, and though the genius replaced the unit, the new phone had 40% more battery life. The Apple 80% battery promise is a joke, as they have control over the whole process.
Apple have already clarified their position on battery replacement and will grant one $29 (loss making) replacement per device regardless of diagnostic results. Geniuses also can exercise discretion like yours did by replacing anyway. As a last resort there are plenty of places you can get a new battery even for older devices like the 5 s.

The 80% estimate is for a specified number of cycles over a specified period but can’t possibly take account of how the device has been treated with regards to heat, cold or charging behaviour.
 
you know I own a BMW, and BMW sends me something about extending the warranty of a particular component all the time. I'm sure BMW is not alone, other car manufactuers do the same thing. Can you imagine a lawsuit for everytime BMW realizes a mistake?
 
If a car maker had a function in the car that resulted in poorer 0-60 acceleration and the function kicked in only to ensure that the car didn’t just stop in the middle of the road, would that be good or bad. Personally, I much prefer the continued use of the device as a trade of for CPU speed (which was never a promised spec to begin with).
This isn't anything to do with 0-60 acceleration, it's more akin to you car used to be able to do 160mph when you bought it, but now that it's a year old, it will now no longer go any higher than 60mph. The fuel tank and pump is so small, that at 160mph, it cant keep up, and the engine will stall. The solution of course would be to put in a bigger furl tank and pump from the start, and it would be able to keep up with demand.

With regards to the Meltdown/Spectre, there are a lot of comments about how this is Intel's fault. Apple confirmed ALL iOS devices are affected. The last I checked, there has never been an Intel CPU used in an iPhone, instead there is the often praised Apple DESIGNED A Series chips. Apple designed the CPUs in all your iOS devices with these security flaws. You can't one minute praise Apple for designing processors that are so far ahead of the competition, and then the next minute absolve Apple of all responsibility when there is found to be a problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ladybug
Then you clearly don’t understand anything Apple has done previously. If you want to be mad, be mad at them not being transparent. It doesn’t make sense to be mad at them for trying to keep your phone from shutting down.

Correction: Trying to keep their products from shutting down. Apple fixes their self created hardware issue at the cost of the users.
The user should never pay for issues a company is responsible for and instead be compensated for it.
It’s hard to believe so many sheeps here don’t get this simple fact and side with Apple. Advanced brain washing in effect.
 
EULA's have been upheld by US courts; in this circumstance it's not can Apple sue someone for breaking the contract, but did Apple break the contract as specified in their own EULA - and those circumstances it's looking at lot stronger for Apple. The area here is basically liability limitations, and those parts of a EULA have been found to be enforceable, for example (M. A. Mortenson Company, Inc. v. Timberline Software Corporation, et al, 1999)

Last I remember, Germany required EULA's to be signed prior to purchase for them to be enforceable; not being a member of that fine nation (although I plan to visit once I've learned the basics of the language) I cannot speak to what the process is now. Obviously other jurisdictions are different, but even where it's effect is weakened, courts will still take it into account before deciding liability.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think what we both could agree on, and which was my whole point, is that it may be quite a waste of time for an iPhone owner to sue Intel, because there is no contract whatsoever between the iPhone owner and Intel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TiggrToo
Remember that with iOS devices, Apple is the chipmaker.

According to Apple, they designed the chips (CPU) inside the iPhone. And if uses licensed design components from ARM. But the chips inside the iPhone are not designed and produced by ARM, they are designed and produced by Apple, who uses some design elements from ARM under licensed permission.

So it is totally within Apple's capability and responsibility to modify the design of the chips used in iPhones and fix the flaw before sending out and additional defective parts to the wild.

To think they'll stop selling everything until they can do what neither ARM nor Intel have apparently done yet - come up with a new chip design that doesn't have those problems - is absurd. A similar situation applies with other devices that use ARM chips; ARM doesn't make chips, they license the design, but only huge, rich Apple is expected to make crushing sacrifices to avoid selling unfixed chips? You're kidding, right? And that would have violated the term of confidentiality for the vulnerability, presumably agreed to by others than just Apple.

Moreover, the terms of delayed vulnerability disclosures are clear; no one recipient should release info early. Such arrangements include a deadline by which the info will be released; but until then, all that might be able to work on fixes or mitigations need the time to do the work; and esp. with vulnerabilities as difficult to exploit as Spectre (the one that affects ARM), while the announcement is delayed, it's safer to keep the secret, because it's doubtful someone else will discover it.

These actually got out a few days early, because various OS vendors were spotted making somewhat similar changes for Meltdown. The most pressing work having been done, and updates already being pushed out, slightly early disclosure was better than rumors.

Intel deserves some market punishment (not necessarily lawsuits!) for Meltdown, IMO; but Spectre (which is also said to affect AMD, ARM, Power, even zSeries mainframes, and perhaps others) is complicated enough, and different enough in the details of exploitation on every CPU model, let alone different makes, that singling out any one entity that has particular responsibility for not having fixed the problem, seems like a can of worms simply not worth opening. Aside from possible indications that Intel has been aware of the general class of problem long before the papers on Meltdown and Spectre were written, IMO the process has worked largely as it should. Advanced designs yielded performance; advanced designs are almost NEVER provably correct, let alone provably correct to a standard that exceeds the formal specifications. Later, researchers discovered the problems, disclosed them quietly to manufacturers and vendors, who worked on getting fixes out for the problem before the public disclosure deadline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobob
You are thinking of contract law... and even that doesn't require a formal written contract. The elements needed are offer, acceptance, and consideration. But you can still sue people and companies for many other causes of action. If your dog escapes from your house and bites my child... i guarantee that I can sue you, regardless of us having no contract. You can sue for negligence, fraud, theft, many things that don't involve contracts.
In the issue at hand... implied warranty of merchantability is more applicable.
You‘re right. I probably didn‘t clarify enough. My fault. What I meant to say was that you either have to (1) have a contract (any kind, also one that is not formally written, which in Apple‘s case would be some kind of „buyer‘s contract“) with your partner and/or (2) be the damaged party. You can of course sue a dog owner if you get bitten by their dog – because you are damaged by it. However, your aunt cannot sue the dog owner for you. And of course you could technically sue anyone for anything but granted the lawsuits where (1) or (2) don‘t apply will get rejected quite quickly, at least in Europe.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.