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Sure they do. Car companies advertise a "highway" MPG, correct? Does that MPG apply regardless of speed? No. You're going to generally get lower MPG once you go above 55 mph on the highway...but they don't advertise that part. Is that considered misleading to customers? No. The advertised highway MPG on a car is an estimate, similar to the advertised speed gains for new SoCs in mobile phones. Just as there isn't really a constant MPG in a car regardless of use or conditions, there is no constant CPU or GPU speed in a mobile phone regardless of use or conditions.

that "advertised" mpg rating is actually a government mandated test in a controlled environment, it subjected to verification from the EPA and provides a disclaimer right on the estimated mpg label on the window sticker.

they aren't hiding on that it may be reduced and if they make a design change to the vehicle that would affect those numbers , they would have to reperform the tests
 
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In order to win a verdict, you are supposed to demonstrate damages, some way you were harmed. How was anyone harmed by Spectre/Meltdown? If your argument is the slowdown from the fix - which may not even exist - then tell me how fixing it earlier would've mitigated this?

This is all people fishing for a settlement. I hope Apple buries them.

If they enacted "loser pays" (limiting to egregious cases), these sorts of things would go away.
 
that "advertised" mpg rating is actually a government mandated test in a controlled environment, it subjected to verification from the EPA and provides a disclaimer right on the estimated mpg label on the window sticker.

Correct. And that illustrates the primary weakness of most of these lawsuits, i.e., there is no federal mandate that people could cite when it comes to CPU speed relative to voltage level in the battery. That's why so many of them are focused on the language Apple used when initially updating the OS, rather than what was actually happening with CPU speed.
 
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What your saying is correct. The problem is Apple wasn’t telling customers a new battery would fix the problem. Then when the customer wanted to buy a new battery Apple wouldn’t sell them one. Claiming the defective battery was good.
How do you know the battery didn’t check out as good?

There are several groups:

1) No problems
2) Have a problem, bad battery, new battery fixes it
3) Have a problem, bad battery, new battery doesn’t fix it
4) Have a problem, battery checks out fine, still have problems

Unless you know how many fall into each camp, your assumption that Apple is doing something nefarious is speculation. There are some phones with issues even a battery can’t fix, but that doesn’t mean that’s most of them. Apple can handle those case by case. Batteries seems to be the solution a majority, but not all of the time.

Point is, it’s impossible to start jumping to conclusions about what Apple knows, knew or how stores addressed problems without knowing actual stats of affected phones. A one off case from your brother isn’t enough evidence to form a narrative.
 
A friend of mine made an interesting comment the other day saying that it's a bit suspicious that Apple started working on fixes (software-based) soon enough that they were among the first to push these updates and consider the problem solved. It raises the question... what do they know that others don't? Suing for the crappy processors is a bit silly, but I fear they weren't transparent about this issue either, and knowingly went ahead land launched all the new hardware with the buggy processors. Remember that both Spectre and Meltdown were discovered a good few months ago last year, not a week or so ago, so Apple did have ample knowledge about the issue, and still went ahead releasing new products at the usual and even higher prices. Under the circumstances I'd expect some considerable price-drops which of course in part would have to be refunded to Apple by Intel and ARM.
 
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You often given over to hysterical hyperbole, or you just get triggered on lawsuits facing Apple? Genuine question here since you've now gone from lawsuits, to the FTC and the DoJ in one single post.

Quite impressive bit of scaremongering there - my only surprise is that you didn't managed to bring in the FBI (well, you kinda did with the DoJ) or CIA into this mix.

Your post is akin to one I'd expect from a child wishing to impress adults "look at me, I know of the FTC and DoJ! Arn't I clever?" However it it falls flat on its fact the moment you examine some facts as the the roles and responsibilities of the organizations involved.

The FTC is a comparatively toothless animal; heck, last I checked they still can't even hold AT&T accountable for obvious throttling of it's customers. Just how the heck you think they're going to stand a chance here - a case much more complex? Their last 'big' win with Apple was a paltry $32M over in-app payments. In the meantime they've ensnared them in the Qualcomm dispute, hitting them with 'failure to produce' fines. The biggest one before that? The infamous e-Book price fixing gig which hit them with a $450M fine.

However, on both of those cases (e-books and in-app purchases) the evidence of harm was obvious and clear. Hardly the case with any of the current issues.

And as for the DoJ - just what in the heck you really think they're going to do here? This issue is totally NOT in their purview. This case is so totally out of their radar it's not funny! If Apple knew about all this AND they did things methodically and with malice (so far fetched as to further in space than Voyager 2) then, and only then, could it even be considered a criminal probe that the DoJ would look at. Until then, then this is still going to be a class action lawsuit thing.

Now, if Apple had undermined the United States by it's actions - then - criminal law may have been broken. Then - and only then, will the DoJ even consider looking at this. At that point, they look at the Corporate Compliance programs - and start examining "Filip Factors" to see if a crime was attempted; key factors here: Root cause analysis, Prior Indications and Remediation.

Heck, as for the battery issues: Remediation is already here: $29 and you get a new battery. It's even possible that a later 11.x will have the option (with big huge warnings attached) to turn off the throttling.

As for Meltdown\Spectre: yeah, good luck with that one. Since we're dealing with the ability to know exploit the previously unexploitable bugs like this will come to light. You no more chance of suing Apple over that than you have Intel.

Each and every class member will have to provide proof of injury (and no, I'm not talking physical). Simply owning an affected device isn't enough. We've plenty of anecdotal evidence on both sides to show the effect is reported to range from 'severe' to 'none at all'. That being the case, simple ownership of an affected device will be discounted.

Apple have been very canny here with the $29 deal. They know that by doing this, every single person who takes them up on the deal will take them out of class action membership since they've been now made whole. "Crap battery giving performance gip? Here, have a new one at a discount (oh, by the way, thanks for opting yourself out of any potential class action lawsuits)."

And you think I'm off the beaten track then you've not been involved in too many class action lawsuits as I have (payday was Duke Energy with $50, everyone else netted me $5 or less) - you can be identified easily - however being classed as a class action member who receives a payout - now that can be significantly more rigorous and will require absolute proof of harm. SCOTUS ruled a couple of years ago in a different class action that members must demonstrate "concrete and particularized" evidence of harm. Granted this was around FCRA lawsuits, but its effect will be felt on all class action lawsuits.

And that's assuming this even makes it to trial - very very very few do. Most get settled out of court for a big payday for the lawyers and bupkis for the members.

And please, oh please, do not mistake the number of investigations and lawsuits as an indication of outcome since there's zero correlation between the two.

As for one of the most recent lawsuits: "Plaintiffs would not have purchased the iDevices had they known of the Security Vulnerabilities," is how it starts off. Talk about a hard sell to the courts! Because the lawyers wanted a simple avenue into this they chose a simple statement that's gonna be a tough sell because now the plaintiffs will have to demonstrate what it is they would have brought. And that's damn nearly impossible to prove. However what will be telling is the number of iDevices sold since the flaws were made public. If the trend continues to be either flat or growth - then that shows what most normal people expect - Joe Q Public doesn't give a flying fig about ANY of this and the class action lawsuits are without merit and will be tossed or settled for peanuts on the dollar.

Thank You for actually stating the truth here, it is highly unlikely for even one class action to get a payout on this or the throttling issue. People are so naive to think that my trust is broken so they must pay is so absurd. No law was broken. Or at least proven at this time. For many trust was. Unfortunately breaking trust is not illegal. Changes to an os are not required to even be disclosed by law. It would be enlightening for some to actually read the ULA they agreed to when doing the update. You basically accept what the current version does good or bad by downloading and release Apple from most of the liability by doing so. I have a client who is a famous class action attorney. Speaking with him about this he explained that the first litigants when the law is broken usually get the higher payouts. So it’s a gamble to file but some will file quickly even without proof hoping laws were broken. Better to file and be one of the firsts, then to wait and be back in the line. So the number of cases are irrelevant to the issue. Anyone can file a lawsuit for about any reason. Winning it is another issue all together.
 
Waiting for people to discover that using something consistently causes it to deteriorate.
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On what day did Apple become aware of this issue?
This paper was published on July 28, documenting the bug. It is hard to believe that tier one companies like Apple, Microsoft, and other major computer / phone vendors were unaware of research and papers of this nature, particularly among their engineers - who are paid well to be knowledgeable on these topics. The fault ultimately lies with the chip manufacturers like Intel, but the computer vendors should have been forthcoming in making these flaws known to the public prior to selling flawed hardware. If they knew, then they purposely withheld the information in hopes of not damaging sales. I'm sure more evidence will come out soon as to who knew what when. One known issue is that the CEO of Intel sold as many of his Intel stocks as legally possible within the month prior to public announcement of SA-00086 in December. Could this kind of thing affect Apple and other companies? We'll see. This most certainly will affect prices and sales of affected hardware over the near future, and will also foster major hardware redesign and competition among chip makers (the only good thing about this).

https://cyber.wtf/2017/07/28/negative-result-reading-kernel-memory-from-user-mode/
 
Lawsuits by lawyers to make money for lawyers. No individual will benefit much from any of these if at all. It's a shame the US system is so borked and dysfunctional.
 
It's hard to claim damage for a hack that doesn't exist yet to a company that didn't produce the hardware though someone certainly will produce one.

And also one could make the argument that the branded ARM chips (A10, A11 Bionic etc) were "created" by Apple with said flaw. Thus culpability.

Apple just needs to add an on/off switch in the battery subsection of settings that allows you to disable the battery saving/throttling feature. They likely won't do this but it might make it easier for Joe Sixpack to get "full speed" on their device with a stunning battery life of "one half of ten minutes" (thanks Strongbad!)
 
Apple deserved to be criticized for lack of transparency. They did not deserve to be sued. As if had they described the software choice they made in better description in release notes anyone would have actually read it or made a different purchasing choice.
Suing accomplishes northing. Are we really a society now where people expect to be shielded from every single possible outcome they disagree with, where reasonable people could think it was a good choice.
The biggest irony for all of you that think the lawsuits are good... hope you realize that you pay for them. You buy Apple products, and the cost of litigation is built into the price of those products. Part of the "Apple Tax" is litigation cost.
If Apple is found to have been silent about this flaw, knowing it was there, they should indeed be held accountable. Sure, they can further inflate their prices to absorb litigation costs, but if the company develops a reputation for being dishonest and folks find out in retrospect they were sold flawed products, they'll be less inclined to continue buying Apple merchandise. This will affect both sales and price point. If you continue to buy Apple products, knowing of their flaws, then quite possibly you are no longer a "reasonable" person. You are a fan, which is short for "fanatic". This applies not only to Apple, but to any manufacturers less than forthcoming about known flaws in their merchandise.
 
Sure they do. Car companies advertise a "highway" MPG, correct? Does that MPG apply regardless of speed? No. You're going to generally get lower MPG once you go above 55 mph on the highway...but they don't advertise that part. Is that considered misleading to customers? No. The advertised highway MPG on a car is an estimate, similar to the advertised speed gains for new SoCs in mobile phones. Just as there isn't really a constant MPG in a car regardless of use or conditions, there is no constant CPU or GPU speed in a mobile phone regardless of use or conditions.

Car Analogies do not work! think it through, a car with balder tyres and less fuel goes faster ;)

You are confusing normal usage vr Software throttling (patch)
 
A friend of mine made an interesting comment the other day saying that it's a bit suspicious that Apple started working on fixes (software-based) soon enough that they were among the first to push these updates and consider the problem solved. It raises the question... what do they know that others don't?
I think Apple knows a lot. I think other companies know a lot, too. I think the government knows even more. Wouldn't be surprised if the government or companies used these security flaws to their benefit.
 
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The vulnerabilities have also been addressed in older versions of macOS and OS X.

Not. At least not all. 10.12 and 10.11 just got one Spectre vector mitigation via a Safari patch, although it does not contain kernel related fixes that 10.13 got in the supplemental update.

2017 security update about Meltdown contained the fix for 10.13 only (you can have a look at the Apple revised document, yes I know, all tech sites not-withstanding - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208331). 10.12 and 10.11 are still waiting for Meltdown fix and kernel mitigation for one vector of Spectre.

There are now some voices about a 2018-001 beta update, we'll see.
 
I think Apple knows a lot. I think other companies know a lot, too. I think the government knows even more. Wouldn't be surprised if the government or companies used these security flaws to their benefit.
Or asked to BE designed that way... Like when NSA Key comes to mind for early versions of Windows... But I say this with my tinfoil hat on. - lol
 
LOL and all J&J had to do was shore up the packaging and keep making their product, essentially unchanged. You would be asking for Apple (and everyone else, essentially) to not have any product in the sales channel for months.. possibly more than a year.
No, you are asking them to be forthcoming in the products they are selling, and to let folks know that steps are being taken to fix or at least ameliorate the problems. If, indeed, essentially "everyone else" has similar problems, then that should accelerate R&D efforts to improve future chip technology. There is nothing to be gained except short term sales advantage in hiding flaws of this nature; what is being lost is a trustworthy reputation. That's more of a longterm gain. If Apple knew of this 6 or more months ago, they made the deliberate choice to keep this from customers in order to maintain short term sales and prices.
 
A friend of mine made an interesting comment the other day saying that it's a bit suspicious that Apple started working on fixes (software-based) soon enough that they were among the first to push these updates and consider the problem solved. It raises the question... what do they know that others don't? Suing for the crappy processors is a bit silly, but I fear they weren't transparent about this issue either, and knowingly went ahead land launched all the new hardware with the buggy processors. Remember that both Spectre and Meltdown were discovered a good few months ago last year, not a week or so ago, so Apple did have ample knowledge about the issue, and still went ahead releasing new products at the usual and even higher prices. Under the circumstances I'd expect some considerable price-drops which of course in part would have to be refunded to Apple by Intel and ARM.

Not interesting at all.

It's been discussed that never before in history have all the competitors (Intel, AMD, ARM, Apple, Nvidia, Google, Microsoft...) got together to try and come up with a fix for these issues. It affects everyone so it's in their best interests to work together on a fix. I'm sure MS and Apple knew about this last year shortly after Intel learned of it. So what?

Are you suggesting that as soon as it was discovered they notify users (and therefore hackers and criminals) about the issue? What good would that do? There'd be a good chance the crooks could exploit it before it was fixed.

This is common in the industry - when someone finds an exploit they hold back on releasing details until the fix is in place. This protects users. I don't see how anyone can call this a lack of transparency when this is how things are typically done. It would be grossly irresponsible to let everyone know about such a severe issue before it was fixed.
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The throttling ones have merit.

No they don't. Where's your proof? You have any statistical data to show what percentage of devices are affected? Why no, you don't.
 
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In all those cases with known consumables like a phone battery, everything still works correctly. Cars have a maintenance schedule saying when to replace things that wear down. Your car doesn't refuse to accelerate because its oil is dirty or the tires worn.

Like most cars today, my car accelerates more gradually if traction is poor. It's there to make the overall driving experience better and safer. Same deal with CPU throttling found on most every portable computer; lower performance to provide better endurance. The only thing mission from iOS is allowing users to make the choice but the fact is that 99% will choose battery life over performance.
 
Like most cars today, my car accelerates more gradually if traction is poor. It's there to make the overall driving experience better and safer. Same deal with CPU throttling found on most every portable computer; lower performance to provide better endurance. The only thing mission from iOS is allowing users to make the choice but the fact is that 99% will choose battery life over performance.

This is the most important part. Obviously Apple is going to allow this choice in a future iOS update (along with various warnings for faulty batteries). Apple will also get statistics back from users about how many people pick battery life with throttling vs full speed but chances of shutdowns. It will be very hard for lawyers to prove users were harmed if the majority pick what Apple did anyway.
 
Like most cars today, my car accelerates more gradually if traction is poor. It's there to make the overall driving experience better and safer. Same deal with CPU throttling found on most every portable computer; lower performance to provide better endurance. The only thing mission from iOS is allowing users to make the choice but the fact is that 99% will choose battery life over performance.

What's the basis for that 99% of users?
Do you have a link to the extensive study?

Crazy assertion.

It's not Apple's fault that the processors or cores they selected for their products have issues. Why sue Apple?

The cores in the apple designed and manufactured CPUs???

Is there a warranty be it limited or not in terms of the design on internal components.
 
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It's not Apple's fault that the processors or cores they selected for their products have issues. Why sue Apple?

Hmmmm. Apple does not 'select' the processors they are sued over. Apple designs and manufactures those processors. Why would they not be responsible for issues? Who else should be sued in this case? Intel is already sued for Intel processors. Now Apple is sued for their own Apple processors. Seems in line with expectations.
 
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it seems that there is a new way to get money, do not play lottery, do not go to the unemployment office, do not apply for food stamps, simply try to find a way to sue apple, that where the money is.

anybody that has or use a device knows that there is always a possibility or a risk of the device being compromise or hack, there always been exploits in software and hardware, do I get to sue Microsoft for any update they release when they try to patch their windows OS, well do I get to sue virus , worms, trojan, creators. this people are just looking for a payday, trust me is not going to happen the most they can get if they get anything is like 50 dollars each. cmon if you know that there is a big risk security problem running the internet that hasn't been patched, well why you keep going on line and keep exposing yourself, only a desperate lawyer that is looking for money or a rookie lawyer that doesn't know nothing about laws or technology will accept this kind of case, one thing is for sure even a rookie lawyer can win this case for apple, those looking for money not even Matlock can win this one for you
 
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