Apple Sues Psystar over OpenComputer

[oban14]

yeah and if we didn't have the slave trade 300 years ago then the United States would be all white. That is a pointless argument. Things have changed since the 70's. Things always change and that's how capitalism keeps moving forward. Regardless of whether right or wrong, the market is different now and Apple has the right to sue Psystar just as Psystar had the right to choose to distribute modified Apple software. Whether they are right or wrong is up the court, however, I think both companies have a strong argument.

Fine. You continue to support the establishment, and I'll continue to support the rebels/hackers/revolutionaries that actually make the contributions we can all enjoy.

I'm not arguing that a mid-tower product around the iMac's pricing wouldn't be ideal for some. This is about business, you are thinking like a consumer. The Mac mini needs a super upgrade with comparable specs if not better than the iMac but to make it a fully upgradable unit would cut into iMac sales. Again think about it from a business standpoint and not a customer.

Thought it may SEEM like a lot of people the amount of people on MR is a very small footprint of Mac users worldwide so I don't think the posters here are the confirmation that Apple needs to create a mid-range tower.

How about every single Psystar customer? Is that enough people voting with their dollars to convince you?

This is great!!! If you don't have the money to get a Mac, go get a Win***** box! Apple is going to crush these fools and put them and their families on the street, which they all deserve!

Don

Why are you so hateful? They were providing a product that Apple wouldn't, that people wanted to buy. Each customer bought a copy of Leopard with each computer.

I hope they don't. I'm all for Apple releasing a cheaper Mac, but one reason why Macs are better in many ways is the tight control Apple has over the hardware and the software and its integration.
If others start building clones, we're going to get just as many incompatibility problems etc as is the case with so many Wintel machines out there.
A Mac is a Mac, and to me that is the combination of hard and software made by Apple, not one OR the other, it's BOTH combined.
So to all other computer builders, stop cloning, and innovate instead, and to Apple, please give us a lower cost mid size tower, and update the Mini!

All they have to do is come out with a specific list of supported hardware. It would still be limited, but people could quite easily build their own machines out of Apple approved hardware.

The argument that Apple needs 100% control to insure reliability is a joke.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Why must the newer group of Mac users be so narrow minded and cling to stereotypes? This is NOT about some $400 cheap Dell. A Mini with a 3.5" hard and the iMac would serve that crowd well. We are talking about people have needs above that but are not movie producers and do not need a $2500 xeon workstation. The user who kept Apple afloat before the teenager jumped on board. The ones who see Mac OS X as a useful tool and not just something to show off to your friends. The ones who for their loyalty were rewarded by being kicked to the curb.

Been a Apple Mac users since the mid-late 80's, and I feel choice is crucial for those who want to experiment and those who know the risk while on a budget. I can get the same experience by not looking at a Tower on my desk or floor as all I stare at is the screen and keyboard. So what is the point of having daisies on a Tower when you chose to hide it.

You are paying for hardware, not some D&G outfit makes you look fab when you head out for the night into town. You are paying for Off-The-Shelf hardware, there is no reason to charge the amounts when compared to the competition. A Tower or any case for that matter should not cost for something that is an appliance.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

They do not represent freedom but the thugs that promote piracy and complete disrespect of other people's right to ownership.

Majorities do not justify being right.

They are stealing a proprietary technology and reselling it for their own good. I bet you that in the future if Psystar gets big (i highly doubt this) and have proprietary systems of their own then they will do the same thing.

Supporting Psystar is condoning piracy and robbery...if this is your freedom well we're all in trouble.

So would you consider companies such as , MicroSoft, etc.. as thugs for stealing ideas and some patented, copyrighted, trademarked from smaller companies to incorporate into they own designs. Gimme a Break.

No wonder you hear of and MicroSoft heading into court, only to settle. If they were not thugs they would not get into these issues, however world have resolved resources and come to agreements long before a product hit the market. These corporation are on different, they do not need you siding with them.

 

[jlblodgett]

I hope they don't. I'm all for Apple releasing a cheaper Mac, but one reason why Macs are better in many ways is the tight control Apple has over the hardware and the software and its integration.
If others start building clones, we're going to get just as many incompatibility problems etc as is the case with so many Wintel machines out there.
A Mac is a Mac, and to me that is the combination of hard and software made by Apple, not one OR the other, it's BOTH combined.
So to all other computer builders, stop cloning, and innovate instead, and to Apple, please give us a lower cost mid size tower, and update the Mini!

This flies in the face of free market economy.

The market will bear what the market will bear. If someone else had the ability to sell an computer that could run Mac's OS - and the hardware was crap, ultimately the market would push them out. If it didn't, then Apple would have to respond, and everyone would benefit.

As it is - there is NO COMPETITIVE MARKET for OS X. It runs (legally) on ONE computer and one alone.

I do not believe for a minute that the average person knows a damn thing about hardware. The people I see buying apple computers in the apple store aren't buying them because they have stellar hardware. They buy them because they've been using iTunes for their iPod and they like the slick operating system that is SOOO much easier to use than the computer they are forced to work with at their job.

Apple will always have its fanboys. Those people will not increase Apple's participating in the global computer market. Apple needs to branch out - to reach out to "switchers" if they ever want to grow beyond their -10% share.

 

[inkswamp]

Very interesting. Perhaps Psystar was selling a few too many of these things. Gee... could be a market there if Apple were willing to pursue it.

Anyway, I hope Apple loses. I still say if Apple won't provide the product for which there is demand then someone else should be allowed to do it.

 

[gkarris]

Very interesting. Perhaps Psystar was selling a few too many of these things. Gee... could be a market there if Apple were willing to pursue it.

Anyway, I hope Apple loses. I still say if Apple won't provide the product for which there is demand then someone else should be allowed to do it.

Best post I've read all day... thanks...

 

[Sun Baked]

Was wondering when Apple would sit on them, sort of nice for them to use an update as a trap to nail them.

 

[inkswamp]

Ah yes, for those of you thinking Apple has a sure win should they decide to sue...

Remember when they tried to countersue Creative?

Remember when they went after ThinkSecret?

Remember their not-so-certain legal entanglements with Apple Records?

Remember their interface lawsuits against Microsoft?

It's never a sure thing and even in the above instances where they won, there were still concessions to be made. No matter how big a company is, it's not a sure win. I'm not seeing how Psystar is committing any illegal acts. It's a legitimate copy of OS X on non-Apple hardware. What law is being broken (and remember, EULAs are not generally legally enforceable unless there is piracy involved so don't bother bringing that up because there's no piracy happening here.)

 

[maestro55]

I wonder how The Woz feels about the company he co-founded suing a company with such a classic hacker style. I have no problem with clones, I just have no use for one at this time.

 

[karpich1]

I thought Mac users were smart enough to not believe that myth. That only differences between "Mac" hardware and "PC" hardware are ROM chips on the motherboard. The rest is all the same.

True, very true.

But it depends how far you look into the rabbit hole.

Memory, forget it. I still can't figure that one out. The markup is insane.

But the motherboards are probably better models than some el-Cheapo companies use. I recall building my first PC without researching the Motherboard, it turned into a disaster.

Sure, Lenovo laptops and some Dell towers probably use equivalent components to Apple, but not everyone does it and not all models under a distributor uniformly share motherboard quality. IE, that no-name PC for $100 after rebates might be a real P.O.S., and an expensive rig from Dell might have a better and more stable motherboard than their cheapest intro model. Then again, an el-Cheapo PC laptop I bought in 2001 is still running like a champ w/ no crashes, so it's a role of the dice.

The same might go for a hard drive or other minor components, maybe the model they used is slightly better than that HP desktop you saw for sale at Costo (then again maybe not). Maybe the LED screen is better, maybe not.

So there is a reason why a Mac is more expensive than a bargain-basement PC from Walmart. But the prices between them and better-quality distributors should be a little more comparable.

I do recall comparing prices between them once (a year ago after the LED MB Pro release) and the prices were somewhat comparable between the MB Pro and a decked-out Dell laptop. But I have no idea if this is still the case.

Oh, and a medium-priced headless unit beyond a Mini would be nice.

 

[mmzplanet]

Here is what everyone needs to ask themselves and think about:

What is a Mac?
Is it just OS X? No
Is it just the Apple hardware it runs on? No

To me, a Mac is an entire computer. Hardware, Software, EVERYTHING.
A Macintosh Computer is the perfect marriage of the hardware and software. One was built for the other. A Mac is the entire computer, not one part or another. Anything else is breaking a copyright.

A Psystar hardware running OS X.... not a Mac.
Apple Hardware running Windows.... not a Mac.

OS X has never been sold as a full license copy. Every single copy is an upgrade copy. The original copy is what you get when you buy a Mac to begin with.

Apple sells the entire widget and upgrades for said widgets.

If you feel that a Macintosh constrains your options... then a Mac is not for you. I am relieved to have a computer at home that looks nothing like what I have at work. I have to deal with windows all day long. Its a relief to come home to something different. My mac takes no thought for using and maintaining it. I works for what I need at home.

If psystar wins maybe I can install the XBox 360 OS on something generic because Microsoft should not be allowed to sell that whole widget either.

 

[spriter]

Well this is a surprise

 

[davidjearly]

Well done Apple.

I was wondering when they would squish this company in court, which I am sure they will do.

 

[r.j.s]

YES, if MacDonald's said that you could only install Hamburger Meat between McDonald's double layered buns, there WOULD be a lawsuit. And guess who would lose.

But McDonalds does not design or own hamburger meat.

 

[Sun Baked]

I wonder how The Woz feels about the company he co-founded suing a company with such a classic hacker style. I have no problem with clones, I just have no use for one at this time.

Heck, even hackers have to protect their efforts, or they become another skid mark next to Visicalc.

 

[r.j.s]

No, but shouldn't someone legally have the right to buy two cheeseburgers at Wendys, add some thousand island dressing and one more bun to make their own big mac?

You forgot the most important part what they are doing ... and that is selling it. Should you be able to sell your wendy's creation, saying it's better because it's cheaper than the big mac?

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

If psystar wins maybe I can install the XBox 360 OS on something generic because Microsoft should not be allowed to sell that whole widget either.

Sure if you have some PowerPC emulator.


A Mac is anything you want it to be, its the OS and that is the end of it. If I gut a MP and take those components and put it into a generic box it still boots Mac OS X, its a Mac. If I take a generic PC components and put it into a Mac case its is a PC. If I install Windows or Linux on a Mac its a Windows or Linux system. The box the components reside in does not define the OS. Though Steve Jobs and his RDF have brainwashed you into thinking otherwise to suck more out of your pockets.

Wake up and smell the Java, its the OS not the hardware. I can make a better looking case when compared to any day, that is my imagination and my freewill what I please to do after the purchase.

 

[coolant113]

didn't they violate the eula in leopard? By using it on a machine that's not officialy apple

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

You forgot the most important part what they are doing ... and that is selling it. Should you be able to sell your wendy's creation, saying it's better because it's cheaper than the big mac?

This is a matter of opinion and taste, if you feel Wendy's is better or a Big Mac, a name changes nothing.

Beef is beef, unless its some GMO beef with something extra then you can keep it and praise it till you go blue in the face.

Hardware is hardware, when you buy clothing or a knock-off you pay what you feel it is worth. Some want the original while others don't mind the knock-off, if in the end your purchasing decisions and the masses help change reduce the price of the original then the deed has been accomplished.

Why would anyone pay over market value for Off-The-Shelf components. Boggles the mind.

 

[jlblodgett]

But McDonalds does not design or own hamburger meat.

And Apple does not design or own the motherboard, chips, RAM, hard drive, video card, wiring, etc.

Apple designs and owns the software, and the case that the aforementioned parts are placed into.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

didn't they violate the eula in leopard? By using it on a machine that's not officialy apple

This is a shady area, as one can debate that one cannot read the EULA without opening the packaging and if you open the package you bought it and cannot return it for a full refund.

Then there is the issue of if you like the OS or not, a demo is just that a demo, it does not give one an accurate gage of day-to-day usage. And to install and try it you have to agree to the EULA.

Finally there is the issue of being the sole supplier or an OS that can run on generic hardware for less. Certainly owns OS X, however it would not have been without the help of the OpenSource Community and its Developers. It's not like there is any topic of OS X being licensed.

People want choice, and you are entitled to your purchase decisions, however don't confine others to your beliefs.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

redacted

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Well done Apple.

I was wondering when they would squish this company in court, which I am sure they will do.

Even though being an Apple Mac user for over 2 decades, I am still rooting for Psystar. Hope opens its eyes and offer better and updated frequent hardware on a competitive bases.

We all though the PC days of 18+ month updates would end with the x86 switch, seems is still offering outdated hardware for initial release prices for outdated hardware.

People really need to wake up.

 

[oban14]

You forgot the most important part what they are doing ... and that is selling it. Should you be able to sell your wendy's creation, saying it's better because it's cheaper than the big mac?

I think I should be allowed to sell it, sure. I bought all the pieces to make it and put it together myself.

Why shouldn't I be able to sell it?

 

[Sun Baked]

didn't they violate the eula in leopard? By using it on a machine that's not officialy apple

The EULA is harder to enforce, simple copyright and piracy are easier to land.

The EULA is much better for fighting simple you bought 20 copies and installed 100 type cases, and for helping to nail software piracy.