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Ben Edlund should sue. The Tick is his creation. Every time I hear "tick" I think of the big blue guy. "Spoooooon!":cool:
tick.jpg


Meh. I'm with Swatch on this one... Tick Different does get me to recall Think Different, but I the Tick is the first to come to mind for me.
 
I'd be okay with using the money Apple is about to drop in legal fees on the new Mac Pro. Let's speed things up a bit...
 
Quote: "Swatch CEO Nick Hayek has reportedly rejected the allegation that it is capitalizing on Apple branding. Hayek claimed that the "Tick Different" slogan has its origins in an 80s Swatch campaign that used the phrase "Always different, always new", and says that any similarity with Apple is purely coincidental."

I don't buy that for a moment, but it remains to be seen whether or not the Swiss courts will side with Swatch.
 
I wonder if the haters here also had a problem with Swiss Rail accusing Apple of copying their clock face look. The door swings both ways.

Why do you mention only the haters? The defenders were just as pathetic on that thread! The reality is that it takes two to tango on MR , the haters / defenders. When you mention only one, shows your bias.

One can argue that when it comes to Swiss Rail, they use the clocks to this day and were blantanty copied. The "think different" campaign has not been used by apple for decades....same?
 
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It says something that Apple feel the need to sue over a marketing campaign slogan they haven't used in 15 years.

Also says something that "Think Different" is still instantly recognizable as an Apple slogan and Apple haven't come up with anything since then that I (or apparently, the public) can remember. The only campaigns Apple use now are a string of easily mocked hyperbole that become instantly forgettable.
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Should've gone with: "Tick Differently"...?

Which is something that came up when Apple first used "Think Different" but it was defensible back then because it matched the campaign intent.

Being grammatically correct would have probably saved a lot of hassle in this case.
 
If Apple wants to OWN the word "different", then Swatch should counter ownership of the word "switch" & the two companies can't use each other's forbidden words & say in a public statement:

"SO THERE! :p"

lol It'll be difficult for Apple to tell potential customers to dump (?) Samsung phones & Fitbit health monitors w/out saying "switch".

Is it really that difficult to comprehend or you are just trying to be funny?
No one is arguing over the word "different". The thing is about "think different", "tick different".
If I start selling tacos using as a slogan "I 'm shovin' it" and McDonalds sue me, will you say the same thing about "I'm" and "it"?
 
Why do you mention only the haters? The defenders were just as pathetic on that thread! The reality is that it takes two to tango on MR , the haters / defenders. When you mention only one, shows your bias.

One can argue that when it comes to Swiss Rail, they use the clocks to this day and were blantanty copied. The "think different" campaign has not been used by apple for decades....same?
I wasn't referring to the haters in that thread, I was referring to the haters in this thread as a possible source of irony. I have no bias and will call things as I see them, including agreeing that the clock faces in that thread were nearly identical and a probably trademark violation.

You make a point about active vs archived use, but I'm not sure that matters. Apple still owns the slogan, the slogan was ubiquitous, and "Tick Different" was obviously, to be charitable, inspired by it.

Apple could either let it go and in so doing void their ownership, or sue to stop them. Regarding the former, I see no reason why they shouldn't hold onto it, even if they have no immediate plans to resurrect it (we have no idea), and letting it go would open the flood gates to other companies seeing what they could get away with. Regarding the latter, these lawsuits don't just happen without intercorporate discussion first. I'm sure Apple asked them to stop, maybe there was a denied request to license the phrase, and Swatch ultimately calculated that maybe a two-letter difference, even though the slogan still sounds almost the same and still refers to the same ideals, is enough to drag this out and prevail in the courts, just like a Samsung does with Apple and others. Search has a ton of capital, lots of lawyers, and loses nothing by throwing crap against the wall and seeing if it sticks.
 
Apple could either let it go and in so doing void their ownership, or sue to stop them. Regarding the former, I see no reason why they shouldn't hold onto it, even if they have no immediate plans to resurrect it (we have no idea), and letting it go would open the flood gates to other companies seeing what they could get away with.

The law doesn't necessarily work that way. A company has to actively use a trademark, or risk losing it. Otherwise, something could fall into disuse and prevent anyone else from ever using it in the future. Take a look at this:

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/23/442761531/one-mans-mission-to-bring-back-hydrox-cookies

You're basically endorsing the same basic criticism against patent trolls.
 
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The law doesn't necessarily work that way. A company has to actively use a trademark, or risk losing it. Otherwise, something could fall into disuse and prevent anyone else from ever using it in the future. Take a look at this:

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/23/442761531/one-mans-mission-to-bring-back-hydrox-cookies

You're basically endorsing the same basic criticism against patent trolls.
Cute interview, but it only shows how a company can stumble into giving away a trademark. The real question is how long can a trademark remain unused before it's proprietary status expired. I don't know.

I'm not endorsing patent trolls, because you're overlooking the critical difference: patent trolls don't create anything. Their entire business model is to acquire the work of others and then sue to create income. "Think different" was the work of Apple marketing to support products made by Apple Computer. I'm fine if they want to hold on to something they created, used in the past, and could use again in some form. Having said that, I have no theoretical problem with an unused trademark expiring after some period of time, but that time should be pretty long.
 
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I read some that when Tesla wanted to call their next generation auto the MODEL E, Ford sued them royaly. That sounds way to much like Fords model T.

In this case Apple is doing exactly the same.
 
I read some that when Tesla wanted to call their next generation auto the MODEL E, Ford sued them royaly. That sounds way to much like Fords model T.

In this case Apple is doing exactly the same.

Well that was a bit different. Ford actually has a model E https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_E-Series

Funny thing is Tesla tried to get around it by labeling the 3 (which they wanted to be E) as three horizontal bars and make it ambiguous. But then got sued by Adidas for the three stripe logo.
 
Cute interview, but it only shows how a company can stumble into giving away a trademark. The real question is how long can a trademark remain unused before it's proprietary status expired. I don't know.

I'm not endorsing patent trolls, because you're overlooking the critical difference: patent trolls don't create anything. Their entire business model is to acquire the work of others and then sue to create income. "Think different" was the work of Apple marketing to support products made by Apple Computer. I'm fine if they want to hold on to something they created, used in the past, and could use again in some form. Having said that, I have no theoretical problem with an unused trademark expiring after some period of time, but that time should be pretty long.

No. Trademark registration must be renewed every 9 years, and they must be defended while in use, and they must be used. A Trademark EXPIRES when the owner stops using it. That's the law. Unless Apple is actively using the trademark, they have a very limited claim to it whether the registration is current or not -- it amounts to squatting. "Think Differently" is not a unique phrase, even "Think Different" is only a grammatically incorrect form of the same idea, in use in the public domain before Apple adopted it for their campaign. Unless Apple continues to trade on that phrase, and they haven't, it's fair game for any one else, especially if it does not apply to the same products as Apple originally employed it -- years before the Apple Watch was even a glimmer in Steve Job's eye. And that's the law. Apple does not have a strong case here, especially in as much as the Swatch use, even if derivative of the Apple campaign would be a parody of it, also protected in many markets around the world.
 
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No. Trademark registration must be renewed every 9 years, and they must be defended while in use, and they must be used. A Trademark EXPIRES when the owner stops using it. That's the law. Unless Apple is actively using the trademark, they have a very limited claim to it whether the registration is current or not -- it amounts to squatting. "Think Differently" is not a unique phrase, even "Think Different" is only a grammatically incorrect form of the same idea, in use in the public domain before Apple adopted it for their campaign. Unless Apple continues to trade on that phrase, and they haven't, it's fair game for any one else, especially if it does not apply to the same products as Apple originally employed it -- years before the Apple Watch was even a glimmer in Steve Job's eye. And that's the law. Apple does not have a strong case here, especially in as much as the Swatch use, even if derivative of the Apple campaign would be a parody of it, also protected in many markets around the world.
Fine. So how much time of "stops using it" counts as having stopped using it? What's the legal definition of "actively using"? No magazine ads for a week? No TV commercials that day? Two months without a billboard? Be specific, because the courts will require it.
 
Fine. So how much time of "stops using it" counts as having stopped using it? What's the legal definition of "actively using"? No magazine ads for a week? No TV commercials that day? Two months without a billboard? Be specific, because the courts will require it.

The minute they stop using it their rights to the trademark are in jeopardy. Look it up -- it's public record, and trademark courts will already be familiar with it. But there are other issues here as well. For instance -- why don't you be specific and tell us how long it's been since Apple last used it. The courts are going to require that too, and that's something they won't be familiar with ...
 
The minute they stop using it their rights to the trademark are in jeopardy. Look it up -- it's public record, and trademark courts will already be familiar with it. But there are other issues here as well. For instance -- why don't you be specific and tell us how long it's been since Apple last used it. The courts are going to require that too, and that's something they won't be familiar with ...
Last year, when Mohammed Ali died. And nearly every year between that and 2001.

And according to Wikipedia, in every iMac's packaging since 2009, when Apple re-registered it as a trademark, inclusion in the packaging probably expressly for the purpose of keeping it alive, since that's the specimen they submitted with the re-registration paperwork. Apple's not stupid.

Your turn.
 
Last year, when Mohammed Ali died. And nearly every year between that and 2001.

And according to Wikipedia, in every iMac's packaging since 2009, when Apple re-registered it as a trademark, inclusion in the packaging probably expressly for the purpose of keeping it alive, since that's the specimen they submitted with the re-registration paperwork. Apple's not stupid.

Your turn.

My turn what? You didn't even bother to do the least bit of research before challenging trademark law in the US, much less elsewhere. Now you know a little more. Congratulations. And I certainly didn't suggest Apple was stupid, so no need for the patronizing tone.

However, sticking a slogan on some iMac packaging, to fulfill a legal technicality, is not the same as Swatch causing confusion in the marketplace, or trading on Apple's trademark, not to mention other mitigating points, such as parody.

I don't recall the Mohammed Ali resurgence, nor do I recall any of the international campaigns "every year" since 2001. But sure, maybe they did. It doesn't change the law. If Apple can convince a jury that such campaigns amounted to more to a piece of paper thrown away in some product packaging, that nobody reads, then perhaps they have a stronger case than it appears. But I doubt it.

The more you know ...
 
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My turn what? You didn't even bother to do the least bit of research before challenging trademark law in the US, much less elsewhere. Now you know a little more. Congratulations. And I certainly didn't suggest Apple was stupid, so no need for the patronizing tone.

However, sticking a slogan on some iMac packaging, to fulfill a legal technicality, is not the same as Swatch causing confusion in the marketplace, or trading on Apple's trademark, not to mention other mitigating points, such as parody.

I don't recall the Mohammed Ali resurgence, nor do I recall any of the international campaigns "every year" since 2001. But sure, maybe they did. It doesn't change the law. If Apple can convince a jury that such campaigns amounted to more to a piece of paper thrown away in some product packaging, that nobody reads, then perhaps they have a stronger case than it appears. But I doubt it.

The more you know ...
I apologize for sounding patronizing. Not my intent, and I'm sorry for the tone.

You said, "Unless Apple continues to trade on that phrase, and they haven't, it's fair game for any one else," and "A Trademark EXPIRES when the owner stops using it," and "Unless Apple is actively using the trademark, they have a very limited claim to it." I showed that in fact they are. You clearly didn't realize that, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's now your turn to demonstrate, now knowing they've been using it and re-registering it based on that use, how Apple isn't entitled to enforce the trademark. I believe they clearly are; it's synonymous with Apple, they're publicly using it periodically to the present day, they're putting it on their product packaging to the present day, and it's duly registered.

It seems like your two counterarguments are, to paraphrase, that 1. the registered company's ongoing use needs to be part of a highly visible campaign for the trademark to be valid, and/or 2. it's ok for the second company to use it as long as the relevant product isn't the same.

"Think different" is irrevocably associated with Apple, and I have no doubt that Swatch utterly knew that, how successful it was, and how similar they sound when they came up with "Tick different." It universally evokes Apple, and Swatch has a problem.
 
How hypocritical of you, Apple. The "Think Different" slogan was originally a play on IBM's slogan "Think".
 
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I apologize for sounding patronizing. Not my intent, and I'm sorry for the tone.

You said, "Unless Apple continues to trade on that phrase, and they haven't, it's fair game for any one else," and "A Trademark EXPIRES when the owner stops using it," and "Unless Apple is actively using the trademark, they have a very limited claim to it." I showed that in fact they are. You clearly didn't realize that, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's now your turn to demonstrate, now knowing they've been using it and re-registering it based on that use, how Apple isn't entitled to enforce the trademark. I believe they clearly are; it's synonymous with Apple, they're publicly using it periodically to the present day, they're putting it on their product packaging to the present day, and it's duly registered.

It seems like your two counterarguments are, to paraphrase, that 1. the registered company's ongoing use needs to be part of a highly visible campaign for the trademark to be valid, and/or 2. it's ok for the second company to use it as long as the relevant product isn't the same.

"Think different" is irrevocably associated with Apple, and I have no doubt that Swatch utterly knew that, how successful it was, and how similar they sound when they came up with "Tick different." It universally evokes Apple, and Swatch has a problem.

I appreciate you filling me in on the current and continuing use of the trademark phrase in the iMac packaging (which actually does the protection of it a disservice considering the range of products Apple now markets). But that is a technicality to ensure their trademark does not lapse. Registration of a trademark is not relevant to a company's ability to retain it -- use is. And they are technically using it, if however invisible to most anyone.

My point is, that whether Swatch knew of the association with Apple, and they likely did, there is no confusion in the marketplace. Regardless of what Apple has been doing with the phrase since, those who were not alive during the active campaign likely have no association with Apple at all, and indeed outside of people like us on these forums, nor do most everyone else. Indeed, the fact that Swatch is not using the exact phrase, the fact Apple is not actively using it in a significant way, the fact Apple themselves derived it from previous campaigns by other companies, the fact it's not a unique phrase, the fact it is not paired with imagery of notable figures, and the fact that it further amounts to paradoy for an unrelated product if indeed found to be derivative of Apple's phrase, all make it fair use in my mind. Let's see if a jury thinks so, especially if comprised of those who were not alive during Apple's defining campaign. Heck, there are people who don't even know the iconic Mac vs. PC campaign.

It's not as simple, or black and white as you seem to suggest. And I think Apple's wrong. In any event, part of retaining trademarks is defending it, so Apple is certainly doing that, and will certainly prevent anyone else easily trading on "Think Different" whether related to computers, or anything else. So maybe that's their whole goal here. But if it goes to court, we'll see if they have any kind of real claim.
 
Interestingly, while the USPTO still lists Apple's trademark as live, the USPTO recently approved someone else getting a trademark on "Think Different" for a non-computer related area. I think for some health food company.

(Trademarks have to specify what types of things they cover. If the target markets can never be confused, the same phrase can often be registered again.)

As for the original "Think Different", it of course was mostly a play on IBM's slogan of the time, which was just "THINK" or sometimes "Think IBM."
 
I appreciate you filling me in on the current and continuing use of the trademark phrase in the iMac packaging (which actually does the protection of it a disservice considering the range of products Apple now markets). But that is a technicality to ensure their trademark does not lapse. Registration of a trademark is not relevant to a company's ability to retain it -- use is. And they are technically using it, if however invisible to most anyone.

My point is, that whether Swatch knew of the association with Apple, and they likely did, there is no confusion in the marketplace. Regardless of what Apple has been doing with the phrase since, those who were not alive during the active campaign likely have no association with Apple at all, and indeed outside of people like us on these forums, nor do most everyone else. Indeed, the fact that Swatch is not using the exact phrase, the fact Apple is not actively using it in a significant way, the fact Apple themselves derived it from previous campaigns by other companies, the fact it's not a unique phrase, the fact it is not paired with imagery of notable figures, and the fact that it further amounts to paradoy for an unrelated product if indeed found to be derivative of Apple's phrase, all make it fair use in my mind. Let's see if a jury thinks so, especially if comprised of those who were not alive during Apple's defining campaign. Heck, there are people who don't even know the iconic Mac vs. PC campaign.

It's not as simple, or black and white as you seem to suggest. And I think Apple's wrong. In any event, part of retaining trademarks is defending it, so Apple is certainly doing that, and will certainly prevent anyone else easily trading on "Think Different" whether related to computers, or anything else. So maybe that's their whole goal here. But if it goes to court, we'll see if they have any kind of real claim.
If market confusion is only defines as thinking the Swatch is made by Apple, you're right. But it extends beyond that. Trademark emulation could be taken to imply product endorsement (tacit or explicit), product collaboration, and lack of sector competition. All of these consumer assumptions both dilute Apple's brand and elevate Swatch's, or at least align Swatch's with Apple's.

Based on nothing more than intuition and some armchair research, I'm betting Apple prevails. We shall see.
 
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