Apple Sues Think Secret

[Photorun]

Bring on the G5 powerbook.

Sure, it'll come, lessee people of your ilk have been whining for it for a year and a half so that means you're almost halfway there figuring Apple will put a G5 in that thin a form factor probably about 2007. Which believe me, most of us out here sick of hearing the bellyaching would love for it to come out sooner so we can stop listening to the folly, but it won't happen, not next week, not in six months, deal with it.

 

[Benj]

Imagine being Steve Jobs. Everyone is yawning. Your triumph, your revenge, your "I can die now" moment is old news. Some ******* leaked it to a website, and it made its way from the rumor community to the fan community to the technical press to the mainstream press to Wall street. Everyone knows; they've known for two weeks. All the years of dreaming, driving, and fighting and it's not a bang, but a whimper.

Imagine being Steve Jobs. Really stop to imagine how much it must hurt, how you feel, and rightly so, that something has been stolen from you.

Ah come on. We all like Apple stuff or we wouldn't be here, but puhlease. Steve Jobs is just like Bill Gates but with more charisma and less success. He cares about the bottom line and therefore the worth of his shares.

 

[evilernie]

Sure, it'll come, lessee people of your ilk have been whining for it for a year and a half so that means you're almost halfway there figuring Apple will put a G5 in that thin a form factor probably about 2007. Which believe me, most of us out here sick of hearing the bellyaching would love for it to come out sooner so we can stop listening to the folly, but it won't happen, not next week, not in six months, deal with it.

Yeah well, that was my first-ever post on these boards and I know the G5 powerbook is a longshot. I was NOT whining!

People of your ilk are elitist know-it-all Mac snobs that have no friggin sense of humor and give regular Mac users a bad name.

Deal with that, ******.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Does anyone really care other then Jobs that this info leaked out a week before he spews it out? Does this news being released a week early going to matter to anyone in the frickin world? The only one looking at the Mac sites are the Mac Zealots like us anyways. Heck the item probably wont ship for months like every single product they released the past 2 years. Its a lot of hoopla over nothing and i wouldnt be surprised if Apple and think secret are in cohootz on this. Everyone gets free publicity. In 5 days it will be meaningless (except for Jobs).

 

[seamuskrat]

TS reasons

I believe the dePlume organization - parent of Think Secret considers themselves to be a media outlet. They are an online publication of sorts, and do not always trade in secrets, so this may not be too hard to support.

If so, they are protected under the Constitution and freedom of speech. As long as Think Secret itself did not break into Apple, or pay someone or otherwise entice someone to break an NDA, then they should be safe. Look at investigative journalism. Does the Washington Post print with anonymous sources? They sure do. So does the NY Times, and just about any other mainstream media outlet. They have shown that in many cases the anonymity of these sources holds up in court. Plus, if TS set things up right, even THEY don't know. Maybe they purge all server logs, delete all messages off a hard drive based answering machine and shred a lot. All sorts of PGP communication systems exist and we know that short of FBI analysis, the common 'file shredders' do an amazing job. Its hard to prosecute without hard evidence.

Many organizations would merely fold under the pressure of lawsuits from a company liek Apple. How many threatening letters have been sent to web sites, including this one that make the average webmaster pull the article. Often, the threat of litigation does the job. Maybe the folks at TS feel they can afford the costs associated with a prolonged legal discussion and feel they can win- which from those with credentials in law say is likely.

They do not post diagrams, blueprints or source code. They write text in speculation. Technically its all freedom of speech. So it boils down to how it was discovered.

As was pointed out here, the nature of the info provided to the rumor sites could conceivably come from a few types of sources. 1) higher up executive or designer. Logic dictates that no one with a decent job would risk that and lawsuits for a web blog. So this option is less likely unless Apple feeds info for the publicity. 2) Low level staffers that feel the loss of job and the 'fame' however anonymous is worth it. Again, I feel its less likely as Apple has shown they will vigorously prosecute and merely getting canned is one thing, but a million dollar lawsuit and loss of job is another. I think 3) related vendor or supplier is the most logical as was also pointed out by other astute MR members. Although they have legal issues to fear, they also have many lawyers of people and companies to hide behind. I do not know what you get from TS for giving them good info, but if its not cash or other valuable monetary reward, TS should be relatively safe.

Of course, I am NO lawyer so I am not aware of the legal issues in detail, but I am a bog follower of copyright and information related issues in terms of freedom of info, and such. If the analogy of this situation was that a website published info that a new drug for diabetes was being finalized by say Pfizer, then it would be legal if the info was discovered in a legit manner.

I am sure the bottom line is that Apple has a love hate relationship with the rumor sites. In recent years mainstream media has picked up on them, which is both good for free advertising and bad for disappointment. I am sure if Steve knows all the rumors are true and he can deliver what is posted, then all in all, he is not concerned. I doubt Microsoft can read TS and develop a product and get it to market by next Tuesday. But if Steve demos Tiger, and no mention of iWork, Flash pods or mini Macs, Apple will suffer a stock drop and the critics will be all over Apple. The problem with being at the top is everyone else is wishing you will trip and fall down.

 

[bree]

OK, there seems to be enough postings by people who sound reasonably comfortable in their knowledge of the appropraiet laws to convince me that TS is quite likely in the wrong here - except for two things:

What exactly is the legal definition of a "Trade Secret"? A Coca-Cola formula this is not, it's information about a product, all of which will be public knowledge. Or it's false, and therefore just a rumor. It's not a key to the vault, like source code for Apple's GUI. Sure, it might have an effect on stock prices because of the news dissemination, but trade secret??? If anything, it seems it could be argued as a stock manipulation tactic.

And, if the argument about journalistic ethics (HA! - but that's another thread) is valid, what about the myriad of news sites that subsequently reported the same information? They obviously didn't corraborate from multiple sources, and they were publishing the same "trade secrets".

I agree though about the rumors part - I'd rather them just be vague rumors, makes the keynotes more interesting.

IANAL

Trade secrets can be defined simply as information that retains its value because it is not known (and enables the company to better compete). Knowledge of Apple's pre-release products is very valuable to their competitors, as they can thus plan to counter it in advance. In addition, the fact that is known in advance destroys carefully wrought release and marketing plans, which can actually be considered economic harm to the company.

Once a story is 'broken', it is no longer protected. While the act of breaking it may entail illegal acts, once it is published, it can no longer be secret.

 

[Mord]

Yeah well, that was my first-ever post on these boards and I know the G5 powerbook is a longshot. I was NOT whining!

People of your ilk are elitist know-it-all Mac snobs that have no friggin sense of humor and give regular Mac users a bad name.

Deal with that, ******.

you are so going to get banned, people make powerbook g5 yes please posts all the time and it gets annoying, it'll come when it's ready and it will be ready when ibm get's the 970 running at 1V and consuming less than 20W max.

one powerbook g5 post ok but 20,000 of them in many many topics when it's completely off topic it tends to piss you off.

even if you dissagree with someone dont resort to personal insults i think many people here are ******s but it's better to try to prove them wrong with a sensible counter argument rather than proving them right by acting like a 12 year old.

have a nice day .

 

[Mandril Design]

Inside the CEO's mind

Ah come on. We all like Apple stuff or we wouldn't be here, but puhlease. Steve Jobs is just like Bill Gates but with more charisma and less success. He cares about the bottom line and therefore the worth of his shares.

Oh... I don't know about that. You should read "The Second Coming of Steve Jobs." I think he's a lot more concerned with being right than being rich.

To Bob: Assuming you are not famous, your extra-marital affairs are not public record, and you haven't broken the law... then yes, you could sue the newpaper for writing about your personal life. You absolutely could.

 

[evilernie]

you are so going to get banned, people make powerbook g5 yes please posts all the time and it gets annoying, it'll come when it's ready and it will be ready when ibm get's the 970 running at 1V and consuming less than 20W max.

one powerbook g5 post ok but 20,000 of them in many many topics when it's completely off topic it tends to piss you off.

even if you dissagree with someone dont resort to personal insults i think many people here are ******s but it's better to try to prove them wrong with a sensible counter argument rather than proving them right by acting like a 12 year old.

have a nice day .

Your right, I apologize for the insult. However, I wasn't being off topic with my comment about the headless Mac, and I think it was pretty obvious that I was being just a tad sarcastic with the Powerbook G5 comment. No need to get flamed for it.

 

[wormed]

Just because TS found a legal loop hole doesn't make their actions ethical.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Just because TS found a legal loop hole doesn't make their actions ethical.

In the end that can apply to so many others....

 

[Raiden]

Just because TS found a legal loop hole doesn't make their actions ethical.

This coming from a guy who is a member and is posting on macRUMORS, a site that deals with the exact same stuff thinksecret does. I much dislike hypocrites like you.

Thinksecret was a great resource to the community, and I hope they fight this. Apple has no legal backing this time, the only backing they have is powerful lawyers and cash reserves, something I am afraid nick deplume might not have....

 

[kingtj]

Jobs and Mac rumor leaks

The message I quoted below is exactly right! I don't know if I'd go so far as to guess Think Secret and Apple pre-planned this whole fiasco -- but in the "big picture", a couple "Mac fan" type sites leaking info only a week or two before the official announcement amounts to a hill of beans.

The problem is, Jobs is a nut-case. He may be a rich, successful nutcase with great public speaking skills and a good sense of style - but he's still on some kind of ego trip, and thinks his personal ideas are the "one true way to enlightenment/originality/whatever".

Time and time again, he makes moves that are decidely bad for business, but he succeeds almost in spite of himself, because that 1% or so of ideas that pass his "Jobs filter" and get a green light to become products are usually very cool AND usable.

A friend of mine was just reading some old stories posted by folks working on the original Mac design teams, and most of it put Steve in a pretty poor light, really. As one prime example, back in the //e days, some developers succeeded in making the MacOS GUI run perfectly on a //e! As soon as Jobs got wind of it, he canned the whole project! He just couldn't stand to see someone prove his "old news" hardware could run everything his shiny new "box without any slots" could run. In retrospect, what a boneheaded move! He could have marketed the MacOS for //e as a commercial product, and folks would have used it as a stepping stone to a later purchase of a Mac anyway - once the //e's limited CPU speed got the best of them.

A good argument can also be made that Jobs' arrogance cost the company MANY sales of updated/enhanced Newtons too. He can make all the excuses he wants about not thinking it was a market Apple wanted to be a part of or whatever - but millions of Palm sales could just have easily been his.

Right now, he's probably screwing up with his insistence that there's "no market for the ability to watch video/movies on an iPod". As their drive sizes increase, that's going to quickly become the next big question iPod owners have. Can I dump shows to this from my "Tivo to go" service and watch them while I'm out? How about Quicktime video from my Mac or my PC?

This over-protectiveness of "secrets" is further illustration of the fantasyland Jobs lives in. I fully agree that true "trade secrets" need to be protected, during the development of a new product. But what we have here is fussing over a leak of info about a completed, set-to-sell product. No company could get wind of this now and beat Apple to market with a similiar idea before Jobs announces it next week!

Does anyone really care other then Jobs that this info leaked out a week before he spews it out? Does this news being released a week early going to matter to anyone in the frickin world? The only one looking at the Mac sites are the Mac Zealots like us anyways. Heck the item probably wont ship for months like every single product they released the past 2 years. Its a lot of hoopla over nothing and i wouldnt be surprised if Apple and think secret are in cohootz on this. Everyone gets free publicity. In 5 days it will be meaningless (except for Jobs).

 

[Goliath]

Hypocrites??

So all week you gus have been commenting/speculating on the rumours that ThinkSecret has provided- cos macrumors hasn't posted anything of late themselves! and now some have the audacity to blame TS for their predicament!

Apple realises that the more they try to keep products under wraps the more chance they have of someone in the loop leaking details- I understand that employees sign NDA's BUT you CANNOT manufacture significant quantities of products and expect an employee of say a contractor not to tell anyone

Imagine if you worked for some assembly house in the Far East and you were manufacturing flash iPods- would you not even tell your best friend?

And in this global age of the internet not expect some rumour site to pick up such leaks?

Quit moaning- TS has done nothing wrong! They're just feeding the appetite of those that are curious. It may hurt Apple, it may not BUT what I do Know is because of these rumours Apple has recieved SUBSTANTIAL press coverage and because of that MWSF will recive more coverage than it would have if these rumours hadn't been leaked

 

[xsedrinam]

So all week you gus have been commenting/speculating on the rumours that ThinkSecret has provided- cos macrumors hasn't posted anything of late themselves! and now some have the audacity to blame TS for their predicament!

My sentiments, too, Goliath:
After a futile attempt to pour through the relentless dronings on in here by legal wannabees punishing readers with morsels such as sightings of “California Supreme Court” findings (and when in **** has the California Supreme Court reflected anything close to grass roots’ America mindset?), I’ll post my final 2¢ and exit, stage right. The potential seriousness and its ramifications are not what’s so tiring. It’s the unashamed duplicity hiding behind the cloak of a surmised call for justice which seems to lust for the likes of a TS to crumble and implode before our very eyes. I’ve lost count of how many registered posters in here claim to peruse the pages of TS and, up ‘til this point, with absence of malice and void of a bothered conscience. We might could well read next “Victoria sues Victoria Secrets”. The only difference with that scenario and this one is that the much ado about nothingness of it all would be void of a p***ing contest. I don’t believe what’s being purported in this thread, that TS is toast, is any more likely to be the case than that, at the end of the day tomorrow, Roxio will be sued for leaking Jam.
X

 

[wormed]

"This coming from a guy who is a member and is posting on macRUMORS, a site that deals with the exact same stuff thinksecret does. I much dislike hypocrites like you."

Anyone in business would understand the stance Apple is taking. Think Secret want's to be bold, then I say Apple should come down even harder and follow through with their legal action. TS thinks they are in the right and innovative but the reality is, they coming across as asshol#s.

 

[crazy150]

I think the rumor sites are good for minor market companies like Apple. In OSX Apple has created one of the best OS on the market, yet their proprietary hardware and marketing practices have insured only 2% (I believe) market share. I myself have played around with the notion of switching from Wintel to Mac ever since OSX, but it wasn't until I finally read rumors about the possible upcoming apple products that I felt the time was right. In fact, 2 days after reading Think Secret's report I ordered an ibook. I think a lot of people would respond to an inexpesive Mac, and if one is not slated for release than it should be. Having all of your electronics the same brand is very appealing, and with the huge success of the ipod, millions of PC users are itching to get their hands on a Mac. Just think, for $2000 you could have a 20GB ipod, a G4 ibook, and a home pc to boot.

If Apple would quit catering to niche markets such as U2 fans, and concentrate on the masses, they could put a large dent in the Wintel market. I guess it's these business practices that explain why Steve's friend Bill got 50 times richer selling a product that was 100 inferior. Look at what MS is doing with the Xbox, they have a superior and more costly product but are selling it at the same price as PS2. Sure they are losing money on each unit, but if they can capture market share, they know they'll make money on the software and peripherals.

As for all the secrecy, when you control less than 2% of the market, the hype around your brand (warranted or otherwise) can only help to attract new customers. One of the first things you learn in business is word of mouth is the cheapest and most effecient form of advertising (other than getting U2 to put their names on you product and selling it for an extra $50). I also don't believe Apple to have a good legal case against TS. It's just information warfare and a way to get their money's worth out of all the lawyers it retains.

Some of this might be a bit out of place and I appologize if that is the case. Otherwise, I await your flames.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Ok, this isn't a rhetorical question nor is it meant to be rude or snide. I was wondering, if MacRumors is infact a RUMOR site - how people who frequent this site can say that TS is getting what it deserves, and apple is right in doing this? To me, it feels a little hypocritical to say what TS is doing is wrong, and then to happily continue posting in MR or anyother rumor mill. I could be wrong though. Please dont think this is a flame, because its not meant to be.

 

[Rower_CPU]

...“California Supreme Court” findings (and when in **** has the California Supreme Court reflected anything close to grass roots’ America mindset?)

Doesn't matter if the CA Supreme Court reflects the mindset of martians, Apple is a CA-based company and has filed in a CA court.

It’s the unashamed duplicity hiding behind the cloak of a surmised call for justice which seems to lust for the likes of a TS to crumble and implode before our very eyes. I’ve lost count of how many registered posters in here claim to peruse the pages of TS and, up ‘til this point, with absence of malice and void of a bothered conscience. We might could well read next “Victoria sues Victoria Secrets”. The only difference with that scenario and this one is that the much ado about nothingness of it all would be void of a p***ing contest. I don’t believe what’s being purported in this thread, that TS is toast, is any more likely to be the case than that, at the end of the day tomorrow, Roxio will be sued for leaking Jam.
X

*sigh*

I doubt that before this lawsuit anyone had any idea that TS might be obtaining their info via means that might be considered illegal, hence the lack of "bothered conscience" - ignorance is bliss, afterall. I agree that many are rushing to judgment. Many are also jumping to back TS without knowing what the full situation is and wrongly assuming this a 1st amendment issue.

Let's all just take a few breaths and wait to see what happens.

And, hasta luego - hope you don't make good on your promise to leave.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Ok, this isn't a rhetorical question nor is it meant to be rude or snide. I was wondering, if MacRumors is infact a RUMOR site - how people who frequent this site can say that TS is getting what it deserves, and apple is right in doing this? To me, it feels a little hypocritical to say what TS is doing is wrong, and then to happily continue posting in MR or anyother rumor mill. I could be wrong though. Please dont think this is a flame, because its not meant to be.

According to Apple, TS was actively soliciting info from people under NDA. Most rumors sites that I know of stick to anonymous submissions and public information analysis and do not directly ask/tempt/pay/etc Apple employees/contractors to break their NDAs.

Most rumor sites also comply with Apple's cease and desist warnings. Apple alleges that TS has not been doing this.

Now, I think saying that "TS is getting what it deserves" is going too far if you don't have all the facts of this case. As I said above, let's all chill a bit and see what happens.

 

[Sun Baked]

My sentiments, too, Goliath:
After a futile attempt to pour through the relentless dronings on in here by legal wannabees punishing readers with morsels such as sightings of “California Supreme Court” findings (and when in **** has the California Supreme Court reflected anything close to grass roots’ America mindset?), I’ll post my final 2¢ and exit, stage right....

X

If they get the case held in California, then the California decision would help Apple quite a bit.

However if TS can get the case booted from the California court, Apple would have a fight on their hands.

Basically TS doesn't want to argue it in California, and try to hide behind the First Amendment, they need it kicked out of there asap.

 

[david_r_p]

I guess Apple wants to kill all Rumour sites, eh?

Not fair. They help generate excitement for Apple's products. You'd think Apple would love them, or at least find a way to use them to their advantage. This "sue them to death" crap isn't going to work. We're living in the information age, you can't keep anything under wraps anymore.

The lifeblood of Apple is innovation. If Apple's well-paid employees can't honor the secrecy clauses in their contracts Apple is left with little choice other than to supeana (sp?) the rumor sites to try to figure out who's leaking.

This leaking does indeed create product anticipation and excitement among the hardcore fans who check rumor sites daily (like me), but real damage could be done to Apple if its trade secrets are divulged too early, allowing competitors time to react and counter.

Anyway, I hope all the rumors are true... The headless Mac sounds the most exciting to me as it has potential to grow the Mac market.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

According to Apple, TS was actively soliciting info from people under NDA. Most rumors sites that I know of stick to anonymous submissions and public information analysis and do not directly ask/tempt/pay/etc Apple employees/contractors to break their NDAs.

Most rumor sites also comply with Apple's cease and desist warnings. Apple alleges that TS has not been doing this.

Now, I think saying that "TS is getting what it deserves" is going too far if you don't have all the facts of this case. As I said above, let's all chill a bit and see what happens.

I didn't know they were getting sued because they had paid someone to break their NDA. I'll rethink jumping to their defense so quickly. Not sure how well that sits with me morally.

 

[xsedrinam]

The lifeblood of Apple is innovation. If Apple's well-paid employees can't honor the secrecy clauses in their contracts Apple is left with little choice other than to supeana (sp?) the rumor sites to try to figure out who's leaking.

And then TS and other's nobly take the position to "not reveal sources"? How about that for a recent deja vous all over again? I still see it as an ill conceived strategy to seek to reach around and over interal hemorraging without, first addressing the root. Disloyal and or greedy and or hostile and or incompetent and or reckless, not to be trusted Apple employed insiders who should be the first target of Apple's house cleaning. Why beholdest the leak in they brother's eye and give no heed to the torrent that is in thine own eye? kinda thing.
X
P.S. And thanks Mr. Moderator for not kicking me out of Dodge...just yet

 

[Krevnik]

This coming from a guy who is a member and is posting on macRUMORS, a site that deals with the exact same stuff thinksecret does. I much dislike hypocrites like you.

Thinksecret was a great resource to the community, and I hope they fight this. Apple has no legal backing this time, the only backing they have is powerful lawyers and cash reserves, something I am afraid nick deplume might not have....

Uh, here is the thing, the article is talking about TS being sued to divulge their source. It boils down to: Apple isn't attempting to shut down TS, they are pushing to force TS to tell them who the leak is so Apple can plug it. Simply, TS could let Apple tear into the leak, and come out of this pretty much untouched.

The bigger question is: does Nick DePlume want to protect his source?