Apple Sues Think Secret

[Yvan256]

Who wants to start an over / under on when Think Secret's site will crash with all the increased traffic streaming to it?

If it can survive a slashdotting, I don't think it'll ever go down (not from increased traffic, anyway).

And just for the fun of it, read some of the comments on slashdot...

Here's a good one: "Heck, the lack of constant spyware invasions are enough to make me think I'd be ahead of the game replacing a few relatives PC's. Those 3-hour spyware removal missions get annoying every three months"

 

[Rower_CPU]

The distiinction I see is that TS makes no money off the info from Apple. They do not sell it to other rumor sites or to APple competitors. They make their money from ad revenue like a traditional news org.

But how do they get the ad revenue? Visitors. How do they get visitors? The info from Apple leaks.

 

[Yvan256]

I just had the funniest thought after reading that post.

What if Dell DID come out with a $399 Linux PC's, so all the kiddies and their mommies ran out and bought the cheap PC instead of the Mac, set it up, and say, "Now how the heck do you work that thar Terminal thing?" Buy the time people who can't figure out what they're doing spend $200 on Windows XP, they'll be cursing Dell for ripping them off.

You mean something like this?

 

[asphalt-proof]

But how do they get the ad revenue? Visitors. How do they get visitors? The info from Apple leaks.

How does the NYT get ad revenue? from companies that want to be seen in their newspapers. How do they get companies to want to be in the paper, by publishing info.

 

[Yvan256]

Actually you're using % of users rather than actual marketshare. Marketshare is the amount sold that year IIRC.

I may be mistaken, but if I'm remembering right...

If 1 in 10 people use a Mac, but this year only 1 in 20 of new computer buyers buy a new Mac, then the Mac will have a 10% user base...but only 5% market share.

Thing is, most people KEEP their Macs over twice as long as most people keep their Windows PC's. So the marketshare for Macs is deceptively low, because people don't buy the Macs as often but keep using them much longer.

Well, I'm not sure if marketshare really is the numbers for a single year, but your explanation sure would make a lot of sense if that was the case.

Especially with the really dumb users buying a new computer every year... (I remember this Dell/whatever ad with the mom going shopping and asking the family if they needed anything... The girl said "a new computer". The mom asked "didn't we just buy this one?" The girl replied "yeah, LAST YEAR", as if the current one wasn't working anymore and NEEDED a new one).

I almost fell down when I heard that (a TV ad, no less). <g>

 

[Doctor Q]

No kidding, you mean like this News Alert I just received from my brokerage company?
...
Rumor sites dedicated to all things Apple such as Think Secret and Apple Insider have recently said Apple would introduce a "headless" iMac computer -- without a display -- at Macworld, costing $499, citing sources.

That's not very careful reporting. From AppleInsider's article:

Apple Computer next month is expected to introduce a G4 iMac sans monitor that will retail for below (US) $600, multiple independent sources tell AppleInsider.

while only Think Secret and the sites quoting Think Secret said "sub-$500".

The press is running with the $499 story without acknowledging the disparity.

 

[aldo]

Someone posted about marketshare before. The number one thing about marketshare is developers.

Apple needs as many programs on OSX as possible. More apps means more Mac users, because it's more likely they'll have a compatible (or the same) program on OSX, so they can switch easier. Do you think OSX would be anywhere nearly as popular as it is now if Adobe didn't port Photoshop, Illustrator etc? Nope is the answer.

Basically, if you are putting $1million into your software program, you want the best audience possible for your program ALONG with the best app in the field.

If Apple development would cost you $250,000 of your $1million, and would only get you another 2% of users, that'd be bad business sense. You'd want to spend that money instead on improving your application or spending more on marketing etc.

This is why marketshare is hitting them hard, and thats why they always emphize the amount of 'new developers' they have (they won't tell you the vast majority of these 'developers' are people who heard about XCode, signed up for a free developer account on apple.com and ran away scared when they saw a line of Obj-C).

A lot of people are leaving the Mac platform because of this, becuase it's becoming uneconomical to keep maintaining it and update with the competition, while getting smaller and smaller returns on these investements.

There is of course expections to the rule. Adobe for example is very dependant on Apple still, because probably 25-50% of their customers are using Mac (but their figure is falling, and they have stopped selling some software on the Mac because of this + the fact Apple keeps on bringing new apps out that infringe on theirs).

Another fact is that Linux has about 3% _desktop_ share, which is nearly twice what Apple has. That just shows you how dire it is getting.

 

[feakbeak]

Indeed. And those boxes all have the same microsoft problems as the more expensive Alienware boxes (i.e., they run virus-prone Microsoft OS/software, i.e. Windows XP, Internet Explorer, MSN, etc).

But the users of those cheap machines will never buy an Apple computer because it's too expensive. And now Apple is trying to make a "cheap machine" for those people, to at least give them the real option of being able to buy a Mac instead of another windows box that will be useless in 6-12 months (yes, some people really do purchase another box when their old one gets too bugged down. Do you think Microsoft and Intel don't like that situation? Keep selling crap, stupid user will buy again because there's no other option in the same price range).

So yes, this IS big news for Apple (and every computer user on the planet, if you ask me).

I know that there are people who replace PCs when they get too many virus's, OS issues, hardware conflicts, etc. For experienced users, Windows (especially the newer versions like 2000 and XP) is viable and in many ways great OS. I'm a programmer and a gamer, my main machine is currently a 3.5 year-old Athlon system. I've made a few upgrades over the years, but nothing major, just more memory better sound/video cards, bigger hard drive. I game, I compile (I'm C++ a programmer), run several services in the background, run a webserver for private forums that my friends and I use. This is all in addition to the daily tasks of email, surfing, IM, music and iPod syncing... the machine is still going strong.

With that said, I've also used Macs a decent amount over the years and I think they are much better suited for novice users who simply want to use a computer email, web, and word-processing and/or digital entertainment. But Macs were never a good match for novices because most of them never want to spend much money on a computer... which brings me to your next point...

But Apple's computers are more expensive (please, I'm talking sticker price here, not overall value. We've been there thousands of times).

So a $500-600 Mac is a huge news and not just for novices. I'm a gamer and write software for Windows, I NEED my PC and couldn't live without one. But I've also wanted a Mac for a long time, to play with OS X and iLife, but I don't have much money to put towards a second machine. For me, this is perfect... if it is true *fingers crossed*.

 

[asphalt-proof]

Someone posted about marketshare before. The number one thing about marketshare is developers.

Apple needs as many programs on OSX as possible. More apps means more Mac users, because it's more likely they'll have a compatible (or the same) program on OSX, so they can switch easier. Do you think OSX would be anywhere nearly as popular as it is now if Adobe didn't port Photoshop, Illustrator etc? Nope is the answer.

Basically, if you are putting $1million into your software program, you want the best audience possible for your program ALONG with the best app in the field.

If Apple development would cost you $250,000 of your $1million, and would only get you another 2% of users, that'd be bad business sense. You'd want to spend that money instead on improving your application or spending more on marketing etc.

This is why marketshare is hitting them hard, and thats why they always emphize the amount of 'new developers' they have (they won't tell you the vast majority of these 'developers' are people who heard about XCode, signed up for a free developer account on apple.com and ran away scared when they saw a line of Obj-C).

A lot of people are leaving the Mac platform because of this, becuase it's becoming uneconomical to keep maintaining it and update with the competition, while getting smaller and smaller returns on these investements.

There is of course expections to the rule. Adobe for example is very dependant on Apple still, because probably 25-50% of their customers are using Mac (but their figure is falling, and they have stopped selling some software on the Mac because of this + the fact Apple keeps on bringing new apps out that infringe on theirs).

Another fact is that Linux has about 3% _desktop_ share, which is nearly twice what Apple has. That just shows you how dire it is getting.

Where are you getting your numbers showing that Apple has 1.5% markershare?

 

[Rower_CPU]

How does the NYT get ad revenue? from companies that want to be seen in their newspapers. How do they get companies to want to be in the paper, by publishing info.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Any way you slice it, TS is making money off the info, whether directly or indirectly.

 

[pubwvj]

I guess Apple wants to kill all Rumor sites, eh?

I doubt it Apple wants to kill the rumoring. Gossip is great marketing. I thing that more likely they are helping to feed the buzz. This sort of thing makes for great headlines. Apple has a fantastic product, we all know that, and they need as much attention as they can get to help with marketing.

The fun part is, which rumors are true...

Now where's that red herring when I need it?
Or was that a mackerel.

 

[asphalt-proof]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Any way you slice it, TS is making money off the info, whether directly or indirectly.

My point is that every other news org. does the exact same thing. The question becomes: Would Apple be suing the NYT if they had been the ones to release these specs?

 

[asphalt-proof]

By the way, I am making a huge assumption that TS is promoting itself as news blog. It may not be at this moment, but I'm pretty sure its going to when it comes to court.

 

[Rower_CPU]

My point is that every other news org. does the exact same thing. The question becomes: Would Apple be suing the NYT if they had been the ones to release these specs?

Not every news organization is posting trade secrets as their primary means of business.

If the NYT got the specs by actively soliciting the info from Apple employees/contractors (as the lawsuit seems to indicate) and posted such material repeatedly despite warnings from Apple: absolutely.

 

[Yvan256]

The Pc market is a growing market so Apple isnt going to be hurting even at 2%. Apple isnt going anywhere anytime soon but it sure would be nice to be able to SEE or touch anything Mac in even a few stores. As it is now they arent growing in this growing market and hovering at 2% doesnt inspire anyone to make stuff for Mac does it. Thanks for the marketshare definition Yvan256. Still why would apple resort to this kind of thing if they dont care about marketshare? Perhaps there is more to marketshare then just your definition heh?

My guess is that I think Apple are seriously starting to care about marketshare. After all, if developpers see a 2% marketshare, will they make software for your system? Sure, a few still do (Blizzard is a good example), but most don't. The two main negative comments I hear about Macs is "they're too expensive and they can't run 99% of the softwares out there."

Apple can try to change both points by releasing a basic 500$ box. It's not too expensive anymore, and more people having a Mac will increase marketshare, making developpers make more software for it, cancelling the last complaint.

Then again, maybe my definition of marketshare was wrong. But in both definition of marketshare, Apple looks bad in the eyes of the general public (only 2% of people use Macs, they're expensive computers for graphic artists).

Not being able to see any Mac games (or even Mac software) in stores isn't good either. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[rdowns]

Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing. But it has nothing to do w/the topic at hand.


Lethal

You're absolutely right. The relevant part is the "of the press" portion of the amendment.

 

[aldo]

Where are you getting your numbers showing that Apple has 1.5% markershare?

I didn't say 1.5% specifically, I said almost twice.

Anyway, look here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=appl...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

 

[Yvan256]

Yeah I know & your going to tell me that the G4 1.25 GHz with its 133 MHz FSB is going to out perform a 2.40GHz Celeron with its 533 FSB.

I don't think people who buy entry-level computers really look up specs.

Also, Apple equals ease of use. Apple will probably focus mainly on what you can do with this box, not what's inside it (heck, I know my car has an engine, but I couldn't even tell you how many HPs it has, cylinders, etc).

 

[asphalt-proof]

Sorry for the multiple posts.

I understand Apple being upset. What if NONE of the rumors turned out to be true? Apple could be facing a huge hit from investors. If none of the rumors turn out to be true then TS didn't do anything wrong other than publish pure BS. Apple may have a case that TS was out to harm them, if they can prove it was intentional. On the other hand, if they do turn out to be true, then the onus is on the employee who leaked. No the news org. he talked to. (I am using news org. loosley because I am assuming he could have leaked the info to WSJor NYT and they would publish if they wanted.)

 

[reyesmac]

Boo Steve, boooooo

I am sick of hearing news like this coming from Apple. They are starting to tick me off. Forget them (please substitute forget with any F word you like) forget them if they think their products are so important they only Steve can show them off. Everyone is going to see it anyway, who cares if its a bit early. I hope all there new products are found out about early. That way I will actually know WHEN to start saving money for it. Otherwise I would have to save up after they announce it and end up changing my mind when I have the money because the RDF wore off and the product really isn't all that great. I am already saving up for this mystery product, without the rumors I would not have wanted to buy squat this month from Apple.

 

[Rower_CPU]

By the way, I am making a huge assumption that TS is promoting itself as news blog. It may not be at this moment, but I'm pretty sure its going to when it comes to court.

<title>Think Secret - Mac Insider News</title>

<meta name="keywords" content="Apple, Macintosh, Mac, Mac OS, rumors, news, think, secret, thinksecret, think secret, insider, inside, insider news, insider information, inside information, info, gossip, dirt, scoops, analysis, AAPL, screenshots, Mac OS X, 10.2, 10.3, Panther, Jaguar, Puma, Mac OS 9.2, Apple Computer, Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, OS X, iMac, iBook, Power Mac, PowerMac, Power Macintosh, PowerBook, Xserve, Xserve RAID, eMac, Cinema Display, iPod, G5, G4, G3, PowerPC, PowerPC 970, Nick dePlume, Nick, dePlume, nickdeplume, dePlume Organization, The dePlume Organization LLC, Steve Jobs, Loop, Infinite Loop, The Infinite Loop, Infinite Loop List, Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft, iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, WWDC, MWSF, MWNY, Macworld, Macworld Expo, keynote, AirPort, AirPort Extreme, Final Cut Pro, Final Cut Express, Safari, iLife, iPhone, iCal, iSync, AppleWorks, QuickTime, iSight software, hardware, seed, developer, beta, alpha, build, preview, investigative, reporting, PowerSchool, iWorks, Mac OS X Server, Quark, PPC, 10.4">
<meta name="description" content="Think Secret is the source for Apple Macintosh inside information and industry news scoops.">

 

[aldo]

I don't think people who buy entry-level computers really look up specs.

Also, Apple equals ease of use. Apple will probably focus mainly on what you can do with this box, not what's inside it (heck, I know my car has an engine, but I couldn't even tell you how many HPs it has, cylinders, etc).

Sorry, they do. They see 2.6GHz on one box and 1.25GHz on the other.

Just like if I was offered two exactly the same cars (to my eyes) and one had twice the mileage of the other, I'd take the one with the better mileage.

 

[B_Gates]

My guess is that I think Apple are seriously starting to care about marketshare. After all, if developpers see a 2% marketshare, will they make software for your system? Sure, a few still do (Blizzard is a good example), but most don't. The two main negative comments I hear about Macs is "they're too expensive and they can't run 99% of the softwares out there."

Apple can try to change both points by releasing a basic 500$ box. It's not too expensive anymore, and more people having a Mac will increase marketshare, making developpers make more software for it, cancelling the last complaint.

Then again, maybe my definition of marketshare was wrong. But in both definition of marketshare, Apple looks bad in the eyes of the general public (only 2% of people use Macs, they're expensive computers for graphic artists).

Not being able to see any Mac games (or even Mac software) in stores isn't good either. Out of sight, out of mind.

I hope your right about Apple caring about market share & willing to change inorder to increase it, but for long I thought they don't, as long as there are people that will buy their overpriced stuff & they can make money they really don't care about market share.

 

[rnizlek]

While on one hand I sympathize strongly with TS, I can see how this sort of stuff hurts Apple.

What if, say, a false rumor or two was put out, or a product that isn't ready for 6 months is rumored to be announced. When Jobs does his keynote and there isn't something as impressive as people hoped for (such as, in this case, a $499 iMac), there will be substantial disapointment during the keynote. This, in turn, can hurt Apple in the press/among followers, as any smaller announcements will simply be overlooked when it is realized that whatever large announcements that are expected do not occur.

Apple doesn't want to be in a position where the rumors actually detract from the keynote.

 

[Yvan256]

Because of the announcement I decided to put my b&w G3 on ebay because this $500-600 is going to kill the used Mac market. The money i get from that will go to the headless iMac. If I didn't know about the mac, i couldn't have planned ahead and wouldn't gotten as much for the G3.

You'd be surprised to see the purchase/last bid prices on eBay.

Wait one week after MWSF, then go see the prices for old items that were updated/announced on MWSF. I keep seeing people paying more for the old, used model (i.e. people bidding 1200$US for a superdrive eMac G4/1.0GHz when the superdrive eMac G4/1.25GHz came out at 1000$US). And no, there wasn't a lof of extras included (except maybe 256MB more RAM than the new model).

Edit: of course, given the rumors(/facts?), it's a wise decision to put your old G3 on eBay immediately.