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Potential competition for a "tweener" sized PDA/tablet/whatever: HP Scout

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030401/column_pluggedin_1.html

And one design that HP's Landry believes shows promise is the Scout, a design known in the industry as a 'tweener, because it's bigger than a PDA but smaller than a thin-and-light notebook.

About the size of an old-fashioned day planner, the flat-panel screen tilts up and has a retractable keyboard.

In discussions with customers, Landry says people often say about HP's popular iPaq that they wish it had a larger keyboard or a larger display.

"In my personal opinion, that's where I'd put my money right now," Landry said, declining to say when such a product might hit store shelves or Web sites for sale.

Hmmmm .... sounds like the same form factor, approximately at least, as the rumored Apple ... thing ...

Except it has a keyboard attached, and runs Windows of course ...
 
Sub-notebook

I like the idea of a tablet w/detachable usb or bluetooth keyboard. I hate that flip over keyboard on the pc tablets. I could just plug the tablet in my keyboard @ work (or anywhere else) if I needed a keyboard that bad.

If I could print from airport extreme (Yea Baby!) or usb, a small Apple tablet would make a great alternative to a sub-notebook.

I have a 15" PB (Love It!) but every day my Newton goes w/me and the PB stays @ home because of their size difference.
 
Re: Potential competition for a "tweener" sized PDA/tablet/whatever: HP Scout

Originally posted by jettredmont
http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030401/column_pluggedin_1.html



Hmmmm .... sounds like the same form factor, approximately at least, as the rumored Apple ... thing ...

Except it has a keyboard attached, and runs Windows of course ...

To me the difference is that the HP product will basically be a tiny PC. If Apple releases a product you can be damn sure it won't be a tiny Mac. It might have some of that functionality but it would be designed with a "higher purpose" in mind.
 
I keep hearing people talking about whether there is room in the market for a tablet from Apple, and people keep commenting that the market is saturated. I think were ignoring some basic fundamentals of economics and strategy here. Tablets are new products, they may be based on old themes but they are a new product. One could argue that Apple is already late to market, which is unusual for a company that prides its self on innovation. The fact is that Apple should have had a tablet to market before the wintel community. Whether the product is successful or not is inconsequential, companies who waite for a niche to develop into a mature market before introducing a product find that the barriers to entry are too high and often find that they cannot compete. Unless your microsoft, in which case you pride your self on looking around and finding out what markets are lucrative and then leveraging your resorces, namley money, and using those to overcome the barriers. secondly microsoft dont have to worry about learning curves, because they can release any crap to market and people just accept the fact that it doesnt work, because the marketing giant that is microsoft have blinded people into a nescient state of beliveing that computers have to crash every five minutes, wipe your hard drive and require lots of money and technical support to fix and a phd is computer science to get up and running again so you can do some simple web surfing or write a document. i cant for the life of me understan why more people dont make the switch to a mac, the stress of the whole pc thing freaks me out.

apple need to release a tablet because if the product does develolp into a successful entertainment/work tool, then they will find that because of the high barriers to entry and steep learning curve they will have to enter into; they will be playing catch up. I think we often forget that apple users will usually allways buy apple products, but what we need is for more pc users to make the switch, and frankly apple's 'marketers' are crap at this. Were constantly talking about the 970 chip being available in powermacs, but lets face it your average home user will buy an imac. yes it is important that Apple retains its current customer base (Graphic designers etc) and keeps them happy, but it also needs to recognise that low end users will want to be enticed by the marketing hype surrounded by the 970 chip. ok so the marketing hype hasnt started yet, but it will. lets face it, a pentium 4 system realistically is in the same price bracket as an emac, let alone an imac. High end users might be inteligent enough to realise that higher initial capital outlay is offset by more up time and the ability to sort out many, if any, problems quickly themselves; but your home user wants a cost/speed ratio and will usually accept less uptime because they can go and do something else while their waiting for their wintel pc to be fixed by which ever computer company they were stupid enough to by it from.

Paradigm shift people, time for a step change. Apple's customer base is loyal and pretty much sown up, time to move on and make an agressive move into new markets, not offer them crap. Sure the iMac is a beautiful product, but it should be so much better.

no doubt i will be flamed or ripped to pieces, but apologies im not a techie. i just see ecomonics, marketing and strategy, and although Apple do certain things right, they always stiffle their own progress. sometimes Apple are Apple's own worst enemy.

Jason
 
Tablet features

But what about the iPod with which Apple was one of the last companies to enter the MP3 player market? The advantage of waiting is that you get to analyze the competition's mistakes. For all the hype tablets have received I still think that such portables are novelty laptops (some even have keyboards).

Apple could make the tablet relevant by taking the same less-is-more approach that made the iMac such a success. Perhaps the screens need to be smaller, expansion options limited and software updates minimized. After all, if a tablet needs constant maintenance then it is not so different from a desktop or laptop computer.
 
Re: Sub-notebook

Originally posted by 2COOL4SCHOOL
I like the idea of a tablet w/detachable usb or bluetooth keyboard. I hate that flip over keyboard on the pc tablets. I could just plug the tablet in my keyboard @ work (or anywhere else) if I needed a keyboard that bad.

If I could print from airport extreme (Yea Baby!) or usb, a small Apple tablet would make a great alternative to a sub-notebook.

I have a 15" PB (Love It!) but every day my Newton goes w/me and the PB stays @ home because of their size difference.
I just dusted of my MP2100. Not been used since I switched to 9.2, now I am on X. I dream of doing my word processing on my Newton again; I just dont know how to get docs transfered from my iMac 17in to the MP2100.
It is still the best form factor and was (in its time), a true laptop replacement.
Bring on the tablet/Newton2/whatever it is called!
 
Re: Re: Sub-notebook

Originally posted by JohnStrass
I just dusted of my MP2100. Not been used since I switched to 9.2, now I am on X. I dream of doing my word processing on my Newton again; I just dont know how to get docs transfered from my iMac 17in to the MP2100.
It is still the best form factor and was (in its time), a true laptop replacement.
Bring on the tablet/Newton2/whatever it is called!


Newton OSX transfer info :
http://misato.chuma.org/wikiwikinewt/index.php/HomePage
 
Re: Tablet features

Originally posted by Sol
But what about the iPod with which Apple was one of the last companies to enter the MP3 player market? The advantage of waiting is that you get to analyze the competition's mistakes. For all the hype tablets have received I still think that such portables are novelty laptops (some even have keyboards).

Apple could make the tablet relevant by taking the same less-is-more approach that made the iMac such a success. Perhaps the screens need to be smaller, expansion options limited and software updates minimized. After all, if a tablet needs constant maintenance then it is not so different from a desktop or laptop computer.

Yes I understand what your saying about the ipod, but such ventures are often the exeption to the rule. I dont want to get into a big debate over the merits of michael porters approach to economics and its weaknesses, but the successes of the ipod is mainly due to apple being able to leverage their core competences into a sustainable competitive advantage over simular offerings. An mp3 player is a basic device in its current incarnations, and while the ipod is a wonderful little toy its hardly the most inovative of tools. its minimalist and simplistic in its design, and had the competition brought out a more complex offering sooner then the success of the ipod might not have been so forthcoming. So yes yoru right they did capitalise from the competitions mistakes, but trust me that is a very very dangerous game to play strategically. No economist, marketer or Strategist would advocate such a long term strategy; youd simply die as a business. Also had apple been the first company to have got an mp3 player to market and made it available cross platform to all, then you can bet your bottom that they would have deeper market penetration. The fact is Apple has a loyal customer base, if not somewhat fanatical (myself included). we all want apple to succeed, how many pc users do you know who feel any form of atachment towards what is for all intents and purposes an inanimate object. yes you have a valid point with the ipod, but lets not oversimplify strategic choice, and agree that apple needs to take a step change and leverage its resources into a more agressive penetration strategy. A basic strategic mistake was to source their high end chip from one supplier, this form of strategy has seen many companies go under. Apple know that if they release a product, mac users will buy it. They have to look past this and offer something that is so different, and is first to market, that the pc using community wont have an alternative and will want to buy one. Once they buy something from apple, it could well spark off a more lasting relationship between Apple and the consumer. hopefully that will dispell some of the myths that pc users have about owning a mac, i feel like head butting people who talk about being frightend of using a mac because of compatibility and a lack of techincal support. For crying out loud i dont know a mac user who needs the level of technical support a pc user needs, purly because although the mac forum is full of people with problems, lets face it we sure as hell dont experience the magnitude of problems the pc community experiences. and as for compatibiltiy, goodness most people i talk to word process, do a bit of spreadsheet work if your lucky and browse the internet nad do presentation work. I've never found compatibility a problem, and they sure wont either.

as for your point on the imac, i agree the imac is a wonderfully aesthetic machine. hell i use one myself!! but the fact is its underpowered, its the OS and everything else that appease us as mac users. Even the imac user wants something that can rival a P4 of comparible price, and often the debate only centres around the top end powermac competing with the P4.

There are many things that Apple should include in its machines, which in previous years it has prided itself on. I mean i cant even fathom why apple isnt using DDR which runs at 300mhz (or is it 333, not to sure what the top end DDR is, which is used by P4 based machines. Told you i wasnt a techie :) ).

ok guess its time for me to say what i'd want from a tablet and not skirt around the issue, id love to see a fully funtional work and multi media device. I'd love it to be able to double up as a toy (DVD viewing, game playing, built in video cam etc) and a work tool (presentation capabilities, keyboard, voice recording capabilities etc etc). i work in sales and I'm finishing off an Msc at the moment, i currently use wintel in work and univeristy :mad: (trying not to use four letter words when i consider work ive lost or contacts and details that have been destroyed by stupid crashes or goofy error messages, at home i use a G3imac, and wo and behold no problems and no loss of data, and lots of pleasent up time :) . and i constantly use a pda, visor edge thingy with targus full sized keyboard (touch typist). I have an ipod, a web cam thingy, and a seperate mp3 player i use for running. So for me a tablet would be a very welcome subsitute to the PDA and would be so useful, i could carry it to lectures, tuck it under my arm and take it to sales meatings, take it on training, basically use it for so manydiffernt things. Problem is Apple havent made one, and i sure as hell am not going to waste mymoney on some crappy dos based OS that will cause me nothing but grief. the amount or training courses and presentations ive seen hampered because someones laptop doesnt work, its ridiculous. i guess the bottom line is I want convergence from a tablet, i dont want someone to ditch the keyboard in fact i quite like keyboard input.

anyhow, enough waffling.

Jason
 
Digital Hub, not iTablet

Originally posted by dstorey
I quite like the idea of it being a part of the digital hub that links all the consumer electronics and computers in the house by being a universal remote control and viewer.

I'm thinking more and more towards Hub than Tablet because of a conversation I had with a coworker while showing him the artistic rendition...its roughly the footprint of a mouse pad!


That got me thinking...what about an ÜBER Graphics Tablet convergence device?

Take the exposed LCD and think of it as a Wacom graphics pad for doing stylus-based I/O. It suppliments or replaces your mouse/mousepad on your desktop PC.

Take some guts out of an iPod to make it smarter.

Integrate in a display so that the touchpad can do double duty as a TV controller, Stereo controller, TIVO (why not?), etc.

And grab a couple of goodies out of the old Newton toolkit.

A student can take it to class and take notes on the "Newton", then take it back and plug it into their desktop system, synch it up, listen to iTunes, iTIVO, etc.

A businessperson can use it for taking notes in a meeting, or plug it into a display and use it for a Safari presenation.


-hh
 
Re: Re: Tablet features

Originally posted by j_maddison


anyhow, enough waffling.



mmmm. i like waffles. maybe the new apple device makes mini-tablet shaped waffles?
 
Sounds like the iWalk to me, and I still think that it's the coolest thing since sliced bread. I can't wait to get my hands on one.

I think that this is a device that the more mobile younger generation will love, and I think that a lot of the grumbling is coming from older users who may be losing their ability to determine
"cool" from "useless".

I want it. I want it. I want it!
 
Applet Tablet

My friend just purchased a Toshiba Tablet...which basically functions like a laptop except that you have new note-taking software (which works really well) as well as a sticky note software. In watching him use it, it is really nice to have a pen instead of a mouse, and to be able to have quality text recognition in a working laptop.

I however am stuck with a Toshiba Tecra 8200, and although it works ok, am dieing to get a new 12" powerbook. My mom however works at MSFT and isn't an apple fanatic, hence the toshiba.

I believe that if Apple were to do essentially the same thing with one of their 12" books, (either power of "I") but with that classic apple twist of superior software ideas, I believe they would have a hot commodity on their hands! I am waiting for one, and would definitely purchase something like that!
 
Tablet notes

Not to beat a not-yet-alive horse, but...

I posted a trick for exploring Apple Inkwell even if you DON'T have a Wacom pen. Might give us some glimpse into tablet functionality--for instance, I didn't realize that Inkwell includes gesture support and modifier-key shortcuts. It seems pretty neat:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23795

Also--some thoughts on a few advantages of such a product (a small OS X tablet) that may help it find a market:

* It gives you a drawing tablet if you don't already have one. They ARE nice for sketching/doodling, much better than mouse.

* Wait... it gives you a DISPLAY tablet--SEE what you draw. Those are EXPENSIVE (and larger of course) from Wacom. NOTHING could be easier for drawing and image-editing than a display tablet. (Even better if the thing could act as a pen and second display for your other Mac--unlikely though.)

* A small tablet is EASIER to use than a large one, except for certain niches that need more. I have 6x8 Wacom--SMALLER than a normal laptop/tablet screen--and it's too big! Moving my arm that far gets VERY tiring. So I confine myself to a small area. The small Wacom Graphire is a MUCH nicer size, for both mousing and drawing. Similarly, a small tablet would be easier and less tiring to use than a big one.

* A tablet may be slower for text-heavy use... but it's FASTER for GUI-heavy use. Zero seek-time to any control or button. Look and tap. FASTER than a mouse! Think of using a tablet for surfing from bookmarks (not typed URLs), for editing iMovies on the spot, for managing and showing your iPhotos on the spot, many games, etc... it's all EASIER than on a laptop OR desktop. Not so with text-heavy apps like email and word-procressing, but those are at least doable anyway.

I can see that for some people and applications, a SMALL tablet could be the most productive device, vs. a laptop, desktop, PDA OR a large tablet. It would seldom be the ONLY Mac you'd want--so it better not cost too much.

Or maybe it's a black-and-white audio-only mega-iPod with no OS X, no touch screen, and only plays songs bought from Apple for $5 each plus $100/month...
 
Re: Re: Re: Sub-notebook

Originally posted by 2COOL4SCHOOL
Newton OSX transfer info :
http://misato.chuma.org/wikiwikinewt/index.php/HomePage

I, too, have a Newton 2100, with ethernet working, and I would use it for everything except for one problem: I can't get anything out of it. I have Everchanging's newtsync, which gets/puts Address Book and iCal... but that's not enough by itself. It doesn't get to-do items and the notes. I hope to write a "plug-in" to newtsync to do this.

NBU works in Classic; the other NCU/NCK packages don't.
 
Newton...

Following the link to wikiwikinewt, I downloaded and installed NCU. It does install and work in Mac OS X Classic. I don't have Now Up to Date 3.5 or Claris Organizer (didn't that become Palm Desktop?), but exporting the notes and to-dos to text files works fine. That is a big help, because I will be able to extract text from notes that I enter. Thanks for the link!
 
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