Apple Takes Risk By Telling Chinese Chat Apps to Disable 'Tip' Functions

[Abazigal]

In this case, more like you follow people who takes good photos (or writes good articles) on instagram, you tip the people for his/her works, now Apple takes 30% of the money you pay for him/her, not the developer.

Your analogy makes more sense, and I think it really helps to frame the argument in the proper context. I still think there's a bit of a grey area here, but I do feel that Apple should err on the side of the developers and not skim a cut off their takings.

 

[macfacts]

See, the first line shows you don't know things.

It's not "$299 for big devs". Microsoft pays $99. $299 is for an enterprise license, which allows you to build apps that don't go on the app store, that don't get reviewed by Apple, but that you deliver yourself to users within your enterprise. Like if Walmart wanted an app that is used by all their cashiers, they would get an enterprise license.
...

So if a dev doesn't use Apple's servers or payment processing (enterprise license), they have to pay more. Awesome.

 

[lazard]

And all of that is just fine - unless you pay a "tip" to the app developer, or you pay a tip for content.
[doublepost=1495183042][/doublepost]
In that case the "free" app will not be allowed on the app store.
[doublepost=1495183213][/doublepost]
Apple wants its cut for purchases made on the iPhone, for things that end up on the iPhone again. When you use Uber, there is no product ending up on your phone, therefore no fee charged by Apple.
[doublepost=1495183378][/doublepost]
Simple. Lots of developers in the USA and Europe play by the rules. Some a*****s in China decide that the rules don't apply to them. As a European developer, I want Apple to cut off their balls and tell them where to shove them. What you are saying is like sending the bully kid away who punches every other kid on the playground, and then his mom complains that her darling isn't allowed to play.
[doublepost=1495183535][/doublepost]
You can buy anything without any cut _that doesn't get delivered to the iPhone_. For example physical books, CDs, kitchen utensils, holidays, plane tickets, concert tickets, and so on. Apple would take their cut for downloaded or streamed videos or music, or eBooks.
[doublepost=1495183621][/doublepost]
You would have to be truly stupid to believe that.
[doublepost=1495183819][/doublepost]

They try to present it that way, but it's a lie. You wouldn't have given the artist money if you hadn't got the content.

I love that you, as a European dev, is an expert in Chinese culture.

 

[Razeus]

I mean WHY have a system based on a free market.

 

[Sokratesagogo]

A lot of my Chinese friends gift each other "Red Envelopes" - hóngbāo using the IOS WeChat wallet, who wants Apple taxing them when they gift a child for example?

Visiting a couple of supermarkets while on holiday in China , I noticed a few that accepted We Chat payments. Apparently you simply enter the amount you wish to pay into weChat on your phone, which then generates a QR code. The cashier scans it et voila! No Apple Pay involved. Even the beggars use it I'm told... Google WeChat Wallet QR codes if you want to read more.

 

[tongxinshe]

An argument could be made that, even though voluntary, these "tips" are still a payment for services rendered, and these voluntary "tips" are a nifty way to circumvent Apple's fees that App developers have agreed to as part of their contract with Apple. No one works for free, and the developers of these social networking Apps expect to get paid for their work somehow. Without collecting these 'voluntary tips', they wouldn't be in business very long.

Having said that, this could obviously backfire for Apple, but I believe they don't have much choice in this case. Not taking a stand now would certainly open the floodgates for developers worldwide to become 'creative' with their payment collection methods.

AGAIN, and AGAIN, the "tip" is not given to the app developer, but to another user of the app, who signed no contract with Apple whatsoever.

 

[Moorepheus]

You answered without CAREFULLY reading the question. The question was "... taxed by the RESTAURANT?".

My bad, but actually, they do, because all tips are put in a TIP COLLECTION. Then the company decides how much of a TIP you receive based on hours worked/Position. So, while she might have gotten $30 for one night, she might have only seen $20 of it in her paycheck. So, it is happening

 

[tongxinshe]

[doublepost=1495183213][/doublepost]
Apple wants its cut for purchases made on the iPhone, for things that end up on the iPhone again. When you use Uber, there is no product ending up on your phone, therefore no fee charged by Apple.

Make sure you get to know the topic before you freely bark about it!
First, it's not "purchased", because you've already finished reading the article when you tip the writer, giving tip is not a requirements for you to read that article.
Second, the tip is given to another user of the app, not the app developer.

From another angle, your explanation doesn't stand. On iPhone, I can buy an eBook from Amazon website, then launch the Kindle app and download the book I just bought and start reading. Apple doesn't get a cut of the eBook purchase in the process.
[doublepost=1495214600][/doublepost]

My bad, but actually, they do, because all tips are put in a TIP COLLECTION. Then the company decides how much of a TIP you receive based on hours worked/Position. So, while she might have gotten $30 for one night, she might have only seen $20 of it in her paycheck. So, it is happening

The rest goes to other workers, not the restaurant itself.

 

[Moorepheus]

The rest goes to other workers, not the restaurant itself.

And we know this how?

 

[Soccertess]

When asked about why Apple would do this to Wechat, Phil Schiller replied "Courage".

Alas, they do have courage, but to destroy Apple

 

[huperniketes]

Makes total sense. If it leads to regulatory action against Apple, they are in no worse position than losing a huge portion of revenue to the loophole.

They most certainly are. Public reaction to a governmental hearing, scrutiny or policy enforcement usually doesn't bode well for the examined entity. And while Chinese citizens distrust their government to a certain extent, they'll certainly side with the People's Republic defending their cultural norms from outsiders.
[doublepost=1495227241][/doublepost]

Apple's 30% is why I stopped developing for their platforms.

They literally do nothing and ask you for 30% of whatever you make. They host your app. That costs fractions of a penny per year. I'd happily host the app myself, but they won't let me (at least not for users that haven't jailbroken their devices).

Okay, in spite of my oft-bashing of Apple I need to defend them on their rate. It's more than reasonable! Here you have a[n] [online] retailer providing you retail space, a payment system, data storage, app distribution, marketing data and sales analytics, and more. That's far from nothing. When I tried to get my apps into retail stores before, they charged between 45-60% off your retail price. And you had to eat the costs of duplicating the media (floppy disks, CD, etc.), documentation, packaging. Also the customer returns and packages damaged by the freight companies.

The lack of direct contact with customers, their terrible customer reviews policies, etc. have soured me on publishing on Apple's app stores. But I cheered when I heard Jobs say the distribution fee was 30%.

 

[Cycling Asia]

This article is not clearly written and seems to be causing some confusion. The truth of the situation would seem to be one of two senariois:
A) Are Chinese users downloading movies, books, music or apps via the App Store or iTunes for free or a small fee, then tipping them additional $ via the chat apps? or
B) Are Chinese users downloading music, movies and apps to their phone via their computer (or something else) and then tipping via the chat app?

If it's A, then I can see how Apple might feel entitled to their cut, since they are providing the distribution and that would seem to be a clear attempt to skirt full payment via Apple's official marketplaces. If it's B, and users are essentially performing all aspects of the transaction OUTSIDE the Apple marketplace (which still might be a way for content creators to skirt Apple's fee, albeit more elaborate) then it will be much trickier for Apple to justify their take.

If anyone has actual insight on the situation I'd appreciate the 411.

I recently watched a youtube video of a guy who went to China to build his own iPhone from spare parts - interesting. Anyway, he used the wechat tip feature to pay for some of the items he needed to purchase. It was simply a money transfer between his account and the store owner's account.

 

[huperniketes]

china has nothing native and original to offer.

Mulan! We gave you Mulan!

Seriously, the Chinese civilization is over 5,000 years old. You already know everything from us, do you?

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Mulan! We gave you Mulan!

Seriously, the Chinese civilization is over 5,000 years old. You already know everything from us, do you?

What technology has it giving?

 

[Tech198]

Side with the tippers..

 

[addicted44]

I'm sure that this will be an unpopular opinion with the loudest Mac Rumors users. However, as a developer of one of the most popular social apps in the App Store, I completely agree with Apple doing this. The apps asking for tips say that Apple does nothing, however, those same apps would be nothing without the App Store. Apple takes care of some marketing, distribution (including bandwidth and storage), moderation, oh, and, let's not forget, the frameworks and tools that make it so easy to develop for the Apple ecosystem.

Developers asking for tips through the app are purposefully bypassing the mechanisms meant for this type of thing, in an effort to stop paying Apple. This not only gives them a leg up on the competition, it also bypasses protections that Apple provides to the consumer.

This is the equivalent to an illegal worker taking cash under the table to hide income from the IRS, while still using all of the public services that our tax dollars provide (like public parks, roads, police, fire, etc.). Then, screaming that they shouldn't have to pay taxes because the government didn't do the work. Disclaimer: I'm all for small government, it was just the most relevant example.

It should be an unpopular opinion because it's a nonsensical opinion.

90% of WeChats customers are Android users. They can get off the iOS platform tomorrow and iPhones sales will drop down to 0 in China (and will be hit significantly outside China, because no Chinese expat who still communicates with anyone in China will purchase an iPhone anymore).

 

[imnotthewalrus]

"A need is something that a person must have in order to thrive. Without it, that person will suffer either physically or mentally."

"A want is a choice. A desire which a person may or may not be able to get. Life will continue if a person doesn’t get what they want."

I am pretty sure it is "need" for me.
I suffer by losing either one of them, and it would be extremely inconvenient for me.

WOW - did you even READ your reply? You used both "suffer" and "inconvenient" in your rebuttal. Please, don't EVER again point to a software or hardware as a cause of "suffering". In doing so, you show ignorance of what true suffering is. Inconvenience, fine. Suffering:...****.

 

[nnoble]

WOW - did you even READ your reply? You used both "suffer" and "inconvenient" in your rebuttal. Please, don't EVER again point to a software or hardware as a cause of "suffering". In doing so, you show ignorance of what true suffering is. Inconvenience, fine. Suffering:...****.

I think that response is over the top and a little too agressive in tone. dragnoniteD made it clear they understand the difference between want and need. Suffering itself is relative. I'm currently working in a part of the world were some people truly suffer for want of basic needs. So I do understand your point. I personally don't 'need' some of the software and apps I have and use day in day out, but others would 'suffer' to a degree if I didn't have it available. And didn't many patients awaiting critical operations 'suffer' when procedures were postponed over in the UK due to software, applications and data not being available? We know this person is not a Dragon, but we don't know that he or she is not a doctor or someone doing something equally important.

 

[Michael Goff]

Apple needs to realize that WeChat is the platform, not the OS. That app runs on Android, iOS, Windows Phone. Have fun killing your sales there.

 

[I7guy]

Apple needs to realize that WeChat is the platform, not the OS. That app runs on Android, iOS, Windows Phone. Have fun killing your sales there.

Apple probably does realize that, but at the same time it probably goes against some App Store policy.

 

[Michael Goff]

Apple probably does realize that, but at the same time it probably goes against some App Store policy.

And maybe they should either:
A) Fix their rules to where crap like this doesn't happen
B) Make an exception. They've made exceptions before after all.

 

[Radon87000]

Apple probably does realize that, but at the same time it probably goes against some App Store policy.

And you think the Chinese give a hoot about their policies when it comes to monetising their culture?

They are gonna get destroyed there.

 

[jkruehne]

to charge for app purchases and in apps via app store is fair – cause apple provides the platform... but that move seems strange

 

[sidewinder3000]

I recently watched a youtube video of a guy who went to China to build his own iPhone from spare parts - interesting. Anyway, he used the wechat tip feature to pay for some of the items he needed to purchase. It was simply a money transfer between his account and the store owner's account.

Do you know if they were brick & mortar stores or online?
[doublepost=1495480078][/doublepost]

Nothing to do with the movies or musics, books, in wechat, there is a function named "friend circle", more like instagram, people write articles, followers can tip the writer in wechat.

If people are only using it to pay for articles, not sure why Apple would feel the need to collect their agency fee, since they don't normally sell articles/journalism and would suffer no loss by people paying authors this way. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[Cycling Asia]

Do you know if they were brick & mortar stores or online?

I've found the video for your viewing pleasure. The payment is done at 9:26

(Note that he uses QR code functionality for something - likely to add the store "owner" to his friends list). If you watch from the start of the video you'll see that he did in fact walk into a "shop", all the goods transactions were physical, and the only thing that wechat was used for was to make the final payment.