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Apple Targeted by EU Probe into Irish Tax Policies as U.S. Considers Tax Holiday for Cash Repatriation

sransari said:
Tax = theft of property. Plain and simple. I do not consent to money being taken out of my pay, but if I don't pay my taxes, men with guns will take me to jail.
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Uncle Sam has perfected La Mano Nera.

Anyhow, what :apple: is doing is legal; not ethical, but legal. The problem is these Gub'ments keep coming up with ridiculous laws that places more and more of the burden on the people and small businesses.
 
Why should Apple have to pay (more), when I as a shareholder, already have to pay taxes for any AAPL dividends or capital gains I might get (assuming Apple stays profitable), PLUS sales tax on any Macs/iPhones I might buy. My tax bill is big enough already. Why does someone want to go from double to triple taxation?
 
irnchriz said:
Legal and 'moral' are two entirely different things. This fact plus these governments are pissed off that they don't get their cut of these billions regardless of the fact that said governments won't spend any of it on the general populace anyway.
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You do realize that some of these countries set up their laws as they did so they would get a small percentage of all international sales rather than a larger percentage of only sales from their own country.

Do you think that 3.25% of all of Apple's worldwide sales is higher than 30% of Apple's sales in Ireland. Here's a hint.... it is. It's not like Ireland didn't know what they were doing when they set up the tax laws. They wanted to draw foreign businesses (specifically those from the USA) to set up camp in Ireland so as to increase tax revenue.

This is no different than governors in states in the USA offering tax breaks to corporations to get them to set up shop within their states and bring more jobs and state income tax. It's better to have a small percentage of something than a large percentage of nothing.
 
Eraserhead said:
Because avoiding tax is good…

Given how much the US spends on the military you have a bit of a point, however most of the rest of the money (e.g. healthcare, pensions etc) is spent on the "general populace".
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Everyone takes the tax breaks they're entitled to. Or do you skip the deductions section on your tax form?
 
Eraserhead said:
Given how much the US spends on the military you have a bit of a point, however most of the rest of the money (e.g. healthcare, pensions etc) is spent on the "general populace".
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I saw a disturbing fact the other day. 70% of the budget goes to checks to persons. That's even with a $1T annual deficit at the peak.

I am more amused than concerned that Ireland decided to be the most business friendly country in Europe, especially since they needed to do something after decades of war. It worked. Now if only Greece, Portugul, and Spain would sort out their economies and budgets. Not holding my breath.

EU is trying to harmonize everything so all countries are in for a penny, in for a pound, but until the monetary and fiscal policies are aligned first the EU experiment is a work in progress with a certain end date.

In the mean time I suspect Ireland is perfectly happy attracting companies from all over the world to rent their space and hire their folks.

At least they didn't pull a USA and export 70% of its industrial base to Asian countries.

Budget bills must be raised in the House. This is a D-Senate political trick and nothing more until the R-House acts.

Rocketman
 
BC2009 said:
You do realize that some of these countries set up their laws as they did so they would get a small percentage of all international sales rather than a larger percentage of only sales from their own country.

Do you think that 3.25% of all of Apple's worldwide sales is higher than 30% of Apple's sales in Ireland. Here's a hint.... it is. It's not like Ireland didn't know what they were doing when they set up the tax laws. They wanted to draw foreign businesses (specifically those from the USA) to set up camp in Ireland so as to increase tax revenue.

This is no different than governors in states in the USA offering tax breaks to corporations to get them to set up shop within their states and bring more jobs and state income tax. It's better to have a small percentage of something than a large percentage of nothing.
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Politicians in the US can change these laws anytime they want. The fact is that Apple is following the laws I'm existence. Any investigations should focus on the laws themselves, not companies that legally use them.
 
Shaun said:
About time. For both issues. Long overdue. Hope the EU come down hard on all those being investigated.
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Private accountants and lawyers are a hell of a lot better than anything a government has :)

It's international business... Companies will obviously go where corporation tax is low and legally abuse loopholes, they're 'doing it wrong' if not.

Singling out a country and clamping down just means the business moves elsewhere, it's just headlines for the ignorant voting public. As always, the consumer loses out.
 
Rocketman said:
I am more amused than concerned that Ireland decided to be the most business friendly country in Europe, especially since they needed to do something after decades of war. It worked. Now if only Greece, Portugul, and Spain would sort out their economies and budgets. Not holding my breath.
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Have you compared Irish and Spanish economies lately?
 
Greedy corporate businesses should be paying taxes and quit avoiding them. If apple followed the law then no shame on apple. If they did hide some over there, crucify them. America is broke and 17 trillion (yes, trillion) in the hole. Want to end up like greece? The hell with a holiday break for tax cheats. Pay up!
 
Speedy2 said:
Other small European countries like Sweden and Denmark have no problem building their own, stable economies without resorting to taxation policies that cost other nations billions.
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Both countries have enormous oil reserves and a history of trade superiority. We were an English colony until 1916, resulting in our immense lacking in development compare to other European countries. Everybody was building an empire while we were being exploits like India.

How do you expect us to become like Denmark and the Netherlands under such unfair circumstances?

Sure, why isn't India as prosperous as the United States? Why isn't Poland as wealthy as Germany? Historical politics. The countries that are rich in Europe today have been rich for a VERY long time.

England is probably the richest, and it has a history of exploiting half of the earth.
 
tevion5 said:
I'm an Apple collector and user and also an Irish citizen. This issue of multinationals not paying much tax is a topical issue here.

See, we don't charge much tax in I order to attract many multinationals. As a result, almost every Silicon Valley company has it's HQ in Ireland today. We also are well educated as speak English.

However, the EU hate that we don't change them enough corporate tax. But, if we did charge them a normal amount, they would most likely leave. Then, we would get no tax and loose all the jobs and infrastructure these campanies bring with them.

I don't think we will see much change. It's not ideal, but it's about the best case scenario for Ireland right now.

Also, the manner in which Google and Apple "dodge" taxes in the US is 100% legal. It's the government that is to blame for any loss in tax. The multinationals can't be blamed for being as efficient as legally possible, within the most capatalist country on earth.
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You are correct. Using provisions in the law (aka "loopholes") to lower takes is never wrong, illegal or dodging even if some of those provisions are really bad ideas that should be changed. Ireland and Luxembourg are their jobs to bring business and revenue into the country.
 
Oletros said:
Where do they leave if all the EU countries tax them? They won't leave the EU market
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No, but they might go to the UK or Germany if we forced them to pay similar tax arrangements. If it was obvious they would not move in such circumstances, corporate tax would have been raised long ago.

The Irish government is not a party of uninformed children. Their cautions are surely well founded.
 
Macky-Mac said:
sure laws can always be changed.......but simply announcing something illegal because you "don't consent" is just a fantasy
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I was referring to my remedial action.

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Oletros said:
After reading that, nothing can be discussed, have a nice day
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If you are a believer in "the herd", you are correct, no discussion would have value.

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bearcatrp said:
Greedy corporate businesses should be paying taxes and quit avoiding them. If apple followed the law then no shame on apple. If they did hide some over there, crucify them. America is broke and 17 trillion (yes, trillion) in the hole. Want to end up like greece? The hell with a holiday break for tax cheats. Pay up!
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The very fact that America is broke has nothing to do with Apple (or any other company), but is entirely the fault of its lords and masters.
 
Honestly, tax rates should never exceed 10% total and only charged once on any product or service. Governments need to learn to live within a budget and not just expect more and more money all the time.

So I say Kudos to Apple for finding a way to legitimately keep their tax liability down.
 
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