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Even if the Courts agreed that you were entitled to a refund, Apple would only owe you a 30% refund. Because that is what Apple took from you. 30% of the price of the app.

For the other 70%, you need to sue EPIC to get your money back, mkay?
Maybe not. When you buy an app on the App Store you aren’t engaging in a transaction with epic. You have no contract with epic.
 
Since the Apple App Store holds the only keys to getting on an iOS device, well then, your parable is mistaken at its core.
Your lack of software deployment paradigms is your mistake.

Check out, install and make a purchase via Starbucks app without the Apple Store:
  1. Visit https://app.starbucks.com/ through Safari on your iPhone
  2. Tap 'Square-O' ( middle bottom, square with arrow )
  3. Add to Home Screen
  4. Add
  • Start an Order
  • Apple does not get 30%
Easy peasy.
 
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So I was going through all of my logins on the internet and tidying up my online footprint. As part of it, I was looking to delete my epic games account since I played Fortnite on iOS maybe three times and it wasn’t for me. I logged into my account, clicked “delete”, and waited for a 2FA code to be sent to me email address. Nothing ever came and I tried several times over a few hours.

I ended up submitting a message to Epic Games and later received an automated message requesting I reply from my registered email and include me screen name. No problem.

Next I receive some BS email from some support person with the following. Seems excessive and unrealistic due to the aforementioned.


Thank you for your response!


In order to protect our players, we need to verify some information on the account you’d like to delete. Please understand that if we can’t verify your ownership of the account, we will be unable to delete it.

Please provide us with the following information to confirm your ownership:
• Your public IP address(es) (IPv4), which you can find by searching "What is my IP address" in your internet browser; if you use multiple devices, please include all IP addresses
• Date when you created your Epic Games account
• Locations (city, state/province) where you made purchases on the account
• Original display name for the account
• Last 4 digits of the first payment card used on the account
• Date of your last login
• Names of any PlayStation, Switch, Twitch, or Xbox accounts connected to your Epic Games account and the dates when they were connected
• The invoice ID or transaction number from your Epic Games purchase
--The invoice ID is located at the top of your Epic Games receipt and begins with an "A," followed by eight (8) or nine (9) digits; example: A12345678.
--The transaction number can be found in your emailed Xsolla receipt. Please note that the number is a nine-digit string starting with a “4” or “5.”

Sounds like EPIC is eager for invasive intrusion into your personal data. Yuck.
 
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Every morning, my Android phone alarm goes off to Pandora radio, and when I shut it off, it turns the lights on in my room, tells me today's forecast, my appointments, and then reads me the news...I wake up daily to a better experience than Apple offers....

I have custom DND rules for more than just one and done, I can set it to be quiet during multiple specific times, when I'm in certain buildings by GPS, yep another feature Apple lacks.

I can buy an SD card for more storage...yep, enjoy that out of this world soldered space in Apple.

How about that USB-C that's pretty universal, unlike a proprietary cable.

My wallpaper changes daily to something new and beautiful, like an Apple TV.. iphone doesn't have that.

I have a fingerprint reader built into the screen, FaceID kinda looks stupid right now with Covid.

Google assistant is way more accurate and gets it right on the first try compared to Siri.

If a person ate Ramen noodles their whole life, and knew not what a cooked duck tastes like, would they say that Ramen is the best ever?


Wow! Sounds like Apple better keep on their toes— there’s some real competition out there!
 
So I was going through all of my logins on the internet and tidying up my online footprint. As part of it, I was looking to delete my epic games account since I played Fortnite on iOS maybe three times and it wasn’t for me. I logged into my account, clicked “delete”, and waited for a 2FA code to be sent to me email address. Nothing ever came and I tried several times over a few hours.

I ended up submitting a message to Epic Games and later received an automated message requesting I reply from my registered email and include me screen name. No problem.

Next I receive some BS email from some support person with the following. Seems excessive and unrealistic due to the aforementioned.


Thank you for your response!


In order to protect our players, we need to verify some information on the account you’d like to delete. Please understand that if we can’t verify your ownership of the account, we will be unable to delete it.

Please provide us with the following information to confirm your ownership:
• Your public IP address(es) (IPv4), which you can find by searching "What is my IP address" in your internet browser; if you use multiple devices, please include all IP addresses
• Date when you created your Epic Games account
• Locations (city, state/province) where you made purchases on the account
• Original display name for the account
• Last 4 digits of the first payment card used on the account
• Date of your last login
• Names of any PlayStation, Switch, Twitch, or Xbox accounts connected to your Epic Games account and the dates when they were connected
• The invoice ID or transaction number from your Epic Games purchase
--The invoice ID is located at the top of your Epic Games receipt and begins with an "A," followed by eight (8) or nine (9) digits; example: A12345678.
--The transaction number can be found in your emailed Xsolla receipt. Please note that the number is a nine-digit string starting with a “4” or “5.”

Is this for real? 😳
 
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Yeah, or it could have been written the way an actual news reporter, rather than a propagandist, would write it.

The use of "blatant" adds nothing to the piece, except to manipulate the emotions of the reader in favour of Apple, and against Epic, just as your version does.

Why not write it as "Epic chose to break what it believed to be a legally unenforceable term in its developer contract, in which Apple blatantly rips off developers by forcing them to pay outrageously large sums of money, for services that cost only a minuscule fraction of that in an open competitive market."

Just as true, in fact more so because it contains more information, and more context, but not so effective as propaganda for Apple, and clearly slanted to cause the reader to sympathise with Epic.

Just because a contract contains a term or condition, does not mean that term or condition is enforceable or legal. If you're in California, and have a no-compete cause in your employment contract, guess what, it's unenforceable, and you're free to work for your former employer's direct competitors, regardless of their objections.

Epic's stance is no different. They believe Apple is not providing them with 30c of value in download hosting and transaction processing for every dollar they earn from the customer, that they can provide that download hosting and transaction processing in-house for a fraction of what Apple charges them - like Apple, they want to "own the technology they rely upon", and Apple has obviously not agreed to their previous requests to allow them to do this stuff inhouse, hence triggering a lawsuit.

Epic could challenge those terms in court, which they did, or show they weren’t willing to follow said terms by submitting the offending feature in a visible form and wait for Apple’s formal reaction, which they didn’t. Instead, they triggered said feature remotely to skirt around the review process, and thus infringed on an unrelated but much more serious clause – as it can pertain to malware prevention –, not because they thought they could ever get away with it but precisely because they knew they wouldn’t, in order to make Apple look like more of a bully than it otherwise would…

Yeah, that’s what makes it “blatant”, a word which, incidentally, is a synonym for “flagrant”. They were caught red-handed doing some serious, premeditated stuff – and that stupid PR stunt further proves that that it all was, indeed, prepared well in advance – and that’s what got them banned. If this was really written in DED’s style, it’d be filled with adjectives like “immoral” and “unethical” (and it wouldn’t be any less accurate, mind you).

Noble and legally justifiable as one’s goals might be, I think we can all agree that getting at them through deceit is, indeed, wrong and immoral. And needlessly and forcefully dragging others into it isn’t just immoral, but also unethical.
 
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If I got a cut of every developer's and content creator's sale, I'd be worth 2T too. There's a reason why they stopped reporting unit sales in their financial reports... nothing compares this golden parachute.

And I'd bet they are willing to pay anything to protect it.

Apple's profit margin on the store is likely 10-20% (once you remove app reviews, bandwidth and hosting, credit card transactions, affiliate and gift card fees, lower rate on subscriptions, etc). Apple's reported average profit margin is 38%.
 
Your lack of software deployment paradigms is your mistake.

Check out, install and make a purchase via Starbucks app without the Apple Store:
  1. Visit https://app.starbucks.com/ through Safari on your iPhone
  2. Tap 'Square-O' ( middle bottom, square with arrow )
  3. Add to Home Screen
  4. Add
  • Start an Order
  • Apple does not get 30%
Easy peasy.

Starbucks sells physical products not IAP or Subs.
 
There's a key difference between a Playstation and an iPhone. A Playstation is sold as specialist gaming hardware, whereas a phone has become essential to everyday modern life. Those are taken into consideration when antitrust proceedings take place. It's the reason Microsoft lost 20 years ago as the web became more critical
That's not the argument.
Apple's App Store is the only way you can install an app on an iPhone/iPad. There is not alternative.
Apple has the monopoly on iOS app distribution.

There are several app stores available for Android users beyond Google Play and they can also manually install apps via side loading.
Their users have options.

That isn’t a monopoly. I face palm every time I read this nonsense. There are plenty of alternative products. You just get a different device.

it is an Apple device. They have every right to decide what goes on their devices.

It’s like trying to say PlayStation has a monopoly because you can’t install Mario Kart on it from the Nintendo store. It’s nonsense.
 
Every morning, my Android phone alarm goes off to Pandora radio, and when I shut it off, it turns the lights on in my room, tells me today's forecast, my appointments, and then reads me the news...I wake up daily to a better experience than Apple offers....

I have custom DND rules for more than just one and done, I can set it to be quiet during multiple specific times, when I'm in certain buildings by GPS, yep another feature Apple lacks.

I can buy an SD card for more storage...yep, enjoy that out of this world soldered space in Apple.

How about that USB-C that's pretty universal, unlike a proprietary cable.

My wallpaper changes daily to something new and beautiful, like an Apple TV.. iphone doesn't have that.

I have a fingerprint reader built into the screen, FaceID kinda looks stupid right now with Covid.

Google assistant is way more accurate and gets it right on the first try compared to Siri.

If a person ate Ramen noodles their whole life, and knew not what a cooked duck tastes like, would they say that Ramen is the best ever?

Two can play this game.

To sum it up the reasons I prefer ios over android,

1. App ecosystem is miles behind iOS and prevents me from getting my work done the way I want
2. The system software lets you customize things, but is missing some core functionality
3. Integration with tablets/PCs/watches is anemic compared to what is possible with apple products.

To elaborate,

My iOS devices are assured of 5-6 years of software updates.

iOS is home to the best apps, such as overcast, Apollo, fantastical, Notability, Tweetbot and Bear, which in turn improves the manner in which in interact with my content. Android may have some good apps, but the best ones are on iOS first or exclusively.

Let me know when slay the spire comes to android.

You need an iphone to use an Apple Watch.

I can share app purchases between my iphone and my ipad, and anyone who has been following my posts will know how I use my ipad to teach in the classroom. Just recently, I used LumaFusion to edit videos on my ipad for a school event, and this goes back to me having the best apps on iOS to make doing what I do that much more enjoyable.

Having an Apple TV lets me mirror my ipad to the big screen, and it’s a great streaming box all round thanks to its integration with the Apple ecosystem (like being able to view my photos).

The Apple ecosystem lets me do things like take calls or send messages from my other apple devices, airdrop files around, sync my files via iCloud, and so on.

Between Apple and Google, Apple seems like the only company who actually gives a crap about my privacy, even if it’s a marketing ploy to win over more users. They have had granular permissions for the longest time, have instituted safeguards into the OS that revealed bad actors like YouTube accessing Bluetooth or Tik-Tok reading your clipboard without justification, and there will additional safeguards to limit the extent to which facebook can spy on its users.

The Apple ecosystem also provides meaningful choice for users seeking alternatives to Google services, such as Maps (which I use full-time now), iCloud mail, safari has ad-blocking support built in etc.

That’s what this all boils down to for the iOS user at the end of the day. Meaningful choice. I can always spend a little more cash getting an iphone or ipad with more storage to get around the limitation of not being able to use expandable storage. No amount of cash is going to make up for the lack of LumaFusion on an android tablet (or the lack of the A12X processor for speedy performance) or there not being an Apollo app to browse reddit with on an android smartphone.
 
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Setting aside for the moment who’s right - what I don’t get is, how is Epic still in violation? If Apple already killed Fortnite, then how is Epic violating the terms currently? Apple can’t force Epic to sell Fortnite on the App Store.

The app was still available for download for existing users, still with the violating functionality remotely switched on. Removing the account removes the ability for existing users to download onto other devices for this and all other Epic games.
 
I'm sorry, did you install the Amazon App Store, Samsung Galaxy Store, GetJar, whatever Huawei store on your iPhone that "competes" with the Apple App Store? Oh wait...you can't. Therefore my point is valid. THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVE ROUTES TO REACH THE CUSTOMER ON IOS. THIS IS FORCED MONOPOLY.

Epic didn't like Steam prices, so they made their own store, lowered the developers fees, and is taking Steam to the cleaners. You can't do that with Apple devices, you can't go make a competitor. Your stuck.

All the stores you listed ARE THE ALTERNARIVE ROUTES. You’ve just explained how this isn’t a monopoly. There is plenty of other choice.

Fact is you’re simply expecting a device to do something that its manufacturer has never intended it to do.

IOS is the product it is not the entire industry. The owner of iOS can run it how they see fit - competition comes from the many other companies you listed.
 
The issue I have with the 30% cut on the in-app purchases is Apple is acting purely as a card processor in this transaction.
They do not host or serve up the content. It's a simple transaction.
I'm waiting for that to be brought up in a complaint.

They do host and serve up the content. Fortnite is a large download that comes off of Apple's CDN account, as are all the dance moves/skins/whatever sold.

Apple does not run the game servers (in this case) though.
 
I did not update my IOS on my Apple iPhone! APPLE DID IT AGAINST MY WILL AND REMOVED ALL MY 32 BIT APPS AT THE SAME TIME, WITHOUT ANY OTHER OPTION! This has to have happened to other iPhone users with battery issues, not just me.



Simple not true. Most Android users never ever install the latest OS, nor do they force an update to anyone that loses them apps.

Android users are lucky to get the latest OS.
 
...and said consoles remain on the market for several years while Apple releases new iPhones and iPads every year. They sell and make a profit because they don't make that in year 2/3/4/5/6 like the gaming consoles.

Nintendo historically sold their console slightly below cost on launch, but hasn't done so for quite a while. They are making a positive margin on the hardware from the first unit sold.

I do not believe Microsoft or Sony sell below cost either, but I do not have numbers on that. Once systems started to also be usable for things like streaming YouTube and playing DVDs, it became a bad idea to try and undersell dedicated hardware for those tasks, as people may very well never buy a single game.

Historically consoles were meant to be sold at a profit over an extended lifetime, but they might not have the parts or assembly costs down low enough on launch to have a positive margin - they obviously would constantly work on negotiating better deals on parts and more efficient/higher quality manufacturing to get their cost down to an appropriate level. This was typically done on a planned timeline - do an initial launch with a handful of attractive titles earlier in the year, possibly in a smaller market, with the plan being to stockpile units for sale alongside a second wave of attractive titles for the holiday season. The focus was a successful launch over profit - if consumers didn't have interest at launch, the company may get cold feet and the console dies before it ever really starts.

None of this is true anymore. Consoles do not go five years without being replaced by a new generation, but instead 2-3 before a new incremental update comes along. A periodic jump in hardware capabilities does not necessarily mean title compatibility is broken. Consoles like the Wii launch on Black Friday in the US.

If I had to speculate, I'd say the PS3 was a red flag both to Sony and the rest of the industry on how bad the competition to out-revolutionize the other consoles in the next generation could fail. The Wii then showed that people actually cared more about having fun than the best graphics/hardware.

Do the game consoles have the margins on hardware sales that Apple does? Well, likely not, nobody does - from massive scale, strategic investments, a focus on selling a higher quality experience at a premium, to a crazy amount of focus on operational efficiency in manufacturing that starts at the design phase, Apple is optimized to make money on selling hardware.
 
Well Apple is not long term thinking here.
Even if Epic loses this battle, today’s kids are tomorrow’s adults/customers.
This will leave a bad rotten Apple taste in their mouth, all these kids will avoid Apple in the future, Apple will end with a f’up business, anyway.

To be clear, when a small kid tries to bully a big kid and gets punched in the face - that doesn't make the big kid a bully; it makes the small kid an idiot.
 
Epic using the customer as its pawn unacceptable. This was a well planned event by Epic with an answer to all to all the possible outcomes, almost like the games they create. Unfortunately there's no winner here
 
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Amazon Prime Video has in-app purchases.
This was blocked for the longest time because of Apple's 30% rule.
You could watch the movies, but you had to rent them from your computer.
Amazon and Apple have made a side agreement to allow in-app movie rentals.
So Apple can be flexible when they want to be.

The Amazon Prime Video "agreement" is not exclusive to Amazon. In fact, Amazon was not the first company to sign up (they were the first internationally known one - but that, at least at the time, would have pretty much been them and Netflix)

Amazon would love to be able to sell titles in the audible and kindle apps, but they have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

I do suspect that Bezos has a much easier job getting a face-to-face meeting with a SVP of Apple to talk about proposed rule changes than I would, however. I'm sure Matt Fischer and Eddy Cue know exactly how much Amazon would be willing to part with for in-app purchases.
 
Your lack of software deployment paradigms is your mistake.

Check out, install and make a purchase via Starbucks app without the Apple Store:
  1. Visit https://app.starbucks.com/ through Safari on your iPhone
  2. Tap 'Square-O' ( middle bottom, square with arrow )
  3. Add to Home Screen
  4. Add
  • Start an Order
  • Apple does not get 30%
Easy peasy.

1. Go to WalMart.
2. Pick sprocket from shelf.
3. Pay at checkout.

Sprocket not in stock? Wrong sprocket color? Sprocket not on sale?

Skip step (2) above. Go to Target instead. Then proceed to step 2. (*—Note: this step is not comparable to such a software deployment paradigm as the App Store.)
 
It’s not ended, yet.

EPIC will win, and Apple will have to pay damages later.
Ohh boy this will be expensive for Apple... 🤣
damages for EPIC
damages for antitrust in EU
damages for antitrust in US
plus a few other damages
It might be expensive but it’s a lot more expensive to let Epic walk all over them and give every other developer ammunition to do the same. This is a smart (and only choice) move by Apple and reminds me of the Samsung lawsuit. Apple didn’t do that for money. They did it to send a message to iPhone copycats around the world. Now they still have plenty of Chinese copycats but they would’ve had many more including Samsung had they not repeatedly dragged them into court for years.
 
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