Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

[Ulfric]

I am not going into the legality of this entire tussle, but I would say that this is the end of Apple as a major gaming platform. To be honest there wasn't much on Mac OS to begin with, iOS had something going on for them in mobile market; but this would be the end of any potential Apple had in the gaming market.

In the long term I think it would hurt Apple more than Epic.

 

[mi7chy]

Curious if Apple is paying attention to what their customers are doing post Fortnite ban and if they're faithful to Apple or to Fortnite? Consensus is to build your own gaming PC otherwise Playstation or Nintendo Switch consoles or Samsung for mobile. As expected of serious gamers, no one is switching to PUBG to remain faithful to Apple. Apple has to be careful here because once their customers switch to a real gaming platform they will never switch back especially considering the point of no return is real soon with upcoming Playstation 5, new powerful AMD and Nvidia GPUs for PC, Nintendo Switch 2 and Xbox Series X releases.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/comments/ii5p5o

https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/comments/iif6d5

 

[cmaier]

I am not going into the legality of this entire tussle, but I would say that this is the end of Apple as a major gaming platform. To be honest there wasn't much on Mac OS to begin with, iOS had something going on for them in mobile market; but this would be the end of any potential Apple had in the gaming market.

In the long term I think it would hurt Apple more than Epic.

This is maybe the silliest thing I’ve read today.

Apple hasn’t been a “major gaming platform” since the apple ii. And nothing about this epic dustup will have a noticeable effect on apple’s “casual games” ios catalog.

Apple’s the biggest company in the world having not had anything resembling a presence in gaming for 30 years, but now this is going to “hurt Apple more than Epic?”

Nonsense.

 

[bousozoku]

Epic using the customer as its pawn unacceptable. This was a well planned event by Epic with an answer to all to all the possible outcomes, almost like the games they create. Unfortunately there's no winner here

I'm sure parents are breathing a sigh of relief that paying Epic Games for digital goods on Fortnite is about to be finished.

 

[bousozoku]

This is maybe the silliest thing I’ve read today.

Apple hasn’t been a “major gaming platform” since the apple ii. And nothing about this epic dustup will have a noticeable effect on apple’s “casual games” ios catalog.

Apple’s the biggest company in the world having not had anything resembling a presence in gaming for 30 years, but now this is going to “hurt Apple more than Epic?”

Nonsense.

I was thinking that Epic Games had Ryan (I forget his full name) working on Linux and Mac OS X versions of Unreal Tournament 3, just to be undone by an unreached agreement about a physics library piece of software. They were so close to being finished and it being released but Epic Games was not able to work out an agreement.

Had this happened, Mac gaming might have gone forward, but Steve Jobs thought that gaming had no place on Macs, anyway.

 

[Ulfric]

This is maybe the silliest thing I’ve read today.

Apple hasn’t been a “major gaming platform” since the apple ii.

Not a major gaming platform? Do you how much of App store's $15 billion revenues come from mobile gaming?

And nothing about this epic dustup will have a noticeable effect on apple’s “casual games” ios catalog.

Even though Epic hasn't stop Unreal engine 4 to be used on iOS, But for how long? This industry has only two major players, Unity & Unreal. Other in house engines are just a blip on the radar. Do you think losing one of the major player won't hamper Apple? I mean yeah they are not stopping it right now, but who knows What would Epic do in the future with Unreal Engine 5. It's not only confined into gaming. Unreal is a major development tool for VR, MR,XR, AR, Architectural visualization, simulation & even VFX post production. Do you think losing access to such a flexible tool would go well with Apple's app development community?

Unity is fine & dandy, but their documentation comes no where near of Unreal.

Apple’s the biggest company in the world having not had anything resembling a presence in gaming for 30 years, but now this is going to “hurt Apple more than Epic?”

Nonsense.

Just because Every move Apple is making right now working doesn't mean it will work for eternity. Apple is the biggest player only for a decade, but Apple has no presence in many of the emerging market like Big data, VR, Cloud, DevOps, AI, ML, Edge computing, IoT you name it. Game streaming is going to be a next big thing in the future & I surely hope Apple doesn't want to miss the boat.

It doesn't take much to things go south in Tech space. Who knows if things turn out in a different manner Apple wouldn't become the new IBM in the near future.

 

[amartinez1660]

Stores always take a cut. You sell Fortnite at Walmart, they take a cut. You sell in-app purchases in the App Store, then Apple is totally reasonable to want a cut. If you think you can thrive without the marketplace/middle-man, then by all means sell direct to consumers...but don’t try to have your cake and eat it too, using someone else’s marketplace but bypassing them in sales.

I’m surprised at the amount of downvotes on this quite reasonable comment.
They are basically saying... sell on an marketplace that someone else created with their own money for infrastructure, technology, marketing, etc (Costco, Xbox, PSN, Android, iOS, Walmart, etc stores) for free, without paying nothing back in return. Why your downvotes? Genuinely curious.

 

[AndiG]

Tim Sweeny about PUBG on the iOS AppStore: „While waiting for Apple to #FreeFortnite on iOS and Mac, here’s another awesome battle royale game powered by Unreal Engine!“
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/28/...eloper-account-terminated-no-longer-available

So funny 🤣

 

[Solomani]

Finally. Please Apple terminate also Facebook account...

Maybe it will happen in George Tito's dreams.

 

[Johnny London]

Stores always take a cut. You sell Fortnite at Walmart, they take a cut. You sell in-app purchases in the App Store, then Apple is totally reasonable to want a cut. If you think you can thrive without the marketplace/middle-man, then by all means sell direct to consumers...but don’t try to have your cake and eat it too, using someone else’s marketplace but bypassing them in sales.

I am not a App developer. However I read an interview with a small app developer (iA writer) who calls the 30% cut too high, because a 30% profit is about as much as you get in this business in most cases. So this should be a discussion about the % amount that apple charges, not the cut itself.

 

[Zalmox]

What bothers me is that older purchases in my apple account like the infinity blade series are not available to be downloaded anymore.
This is not right. How can they retroactivelly remove my purchases without refunding me or communicating with me?
This makes me really feel weird toward digital purchases . I feel they are more like digital leasing masquerading as purchases.
I understand to block whatever purchases from now on but blocking me from my digital property that i PAYED real money for ? This was purchased years ago when there were not any issues with epic. Why i am being hauled in their conflicts ?
If this passes, that means that any digital purchase you might have now could be removed in the future on any ecosystem if there is legal issues arising ? This is not right

 

[AndiG]

Maybe it will happen in George Tito's dreams.

Oh, but why not? Imagine Facebook and all Facebook apps disappear (The four most downloaded apps of the decade - WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook, Facebook Messenger)
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50838013

And then the next day Apple disappears from mobile market and starts building awesome computers again. Upgradeable RAM and SSD, function keys, ports, Nvidia GPU all together with a reduced number of models (the way Steve changed Apple when he returned).

Awesome 😍 - but you are right, just a dream ...

 

[Analog Kid]

1. Go to WalMart.
2. Pick sprocket from shelf.
3. Pay at checkout.

Sprocket not in stock? Wrong sprocket color? Sprocket not on sale?

Skip step (2) above. Go to Target instead. Then proceed to step 2. (*—Note: this step is not comparable to such a software deployment paradigm as the App Store.)

And then just keep repeating step 2 at store after store after store until you realize how much it's cost you to spend your day driving all over town comparison shopping when it's easier to shop at Amazon because they carry everything.

 

[AndiG]

What bothers me is that older purchases in my apple account like the infinity blade series are not available to be downloaded anymore.
This is not right. How can they retroactivelly remove my purchases without refunding me or communicating with me?
This makes me really feel weird toward digital purchases . I feel they are more like digital leasing masquerading as purchases.
I understand to block whatever purchases from now on but blocking me from my digital property that i PAYED real money for ? This was purchased years ago when there were not any issues with epic. Why i am being hauled in their conflicts ?
If this passes, that means that any digital purchase you might have now could be removed in the future on any ecosystem if there is legal issues arising ? This is not right

Class action suit? Maybe that‘ll be the next move - or maybe it is just by accident and Apple will fix it.

 

[cmaier]

I am not a App developer. However I read an interview with a small app developer (iA writer) who calls the 30% cut too high, because a 30% profit is about as much as you get in this business in most cases. So this should be a discussion about the % amount that apple charges, not the cut itself.

And yet there are tens of thousands of developers in the App Store. Do they all do it to lose money?

 

[Solomani]

Oh, but why not? Imagine Facebook and all Facebook apps disappear (The four most downloaded apps of the decade - WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook, Facebook Messenger)
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50838013

And then the next day Apple disappears from mobile market and starts building awesome computers again. Upgradeable RAM and SSD, function keys, ports, Nvidia GPU all together with a reduced number of models (the way Steve changed Apple when he returned).

Awesome 😍 - but you are right, just a dream ...

And then Apple will change back to the old name, right? Apple Computer Inc.

 

[Michael Scrip]

You do realize the going rate for processing (securely) a payment is between 50 cents for debit and 3% for a credit card? Apple isn't doing any magic.

That's all Apple is doing. But if you feel safer by staring into your phone (FaceID) when making a purchase so Apple can "safely" process your purchase, good on you. Outside the Apple world, almost all electronic transactions are safe. I'm not worried. Pretty sure Epic wants their 27% in excess fees back.

Apple is providing more than just payment processing. Apple built an entire platform and ecosystem.

I've had my AppleID since 2006 when I bought my first iPod Nano. Apple handles my login, my two-factor auth, password management, they have my payment information, they process gift cards, etc. All my devices are linked through the same account. Oh... and they sell stuff online in 120 countries and deal with taxes and currency exchange. And they also have 500 physical stores.

Hell... once I had to call Apple Support on the telephone to unlock my account after a few failed login attempts. They provide great customer service too.

Apple is more than just a Stripe competitor.

But hey... don't take my word for it... Epic thought Apple was a good enough platform 10 years ago when they got on stage at an Apple event and launched Infinity Blade on the iPad. And they played by Apple's rules ever since.

Until they didn't.

Look... Epic might have been upset about Apple's 30% cut... I can understand that. (though again, they were there for a decade?)

Well now they get 0%

Good news for Epic... 71% of Fortnite players are on console (which also has a 30% cut)... 17% are on PC (hello again cut)... and only 12% are on mobile (split between iOS and Android... bye bye)

I hope this "war" Epic started concerning the smallest percentage of their players is worth it.

 

[Altivec88]

Tim Sweeny about PUBG on the iOS AppStore: „While waiting for Apple to #FreeFortnite on iOS and Mac, here’s another awesome battle royale game powered by Unreal Engine!“
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/28/...eloper-account-terminated-no-longer-available

So funny 🤣

Thanks for the recommendation Tim Sweeny. I've just downloaded PUBG and they will be getting my money now. Hopefully you enjoy getting nothing out of it. Since you screwed me as a customer, you lost me for life on all platforms as I no longer trust you keeping your end of our purchase agreement.

In a few more days, your fifteen minutes of fame will go away and nobody will care or be talking about this. Those of us that play games on iOS will continue to do so. Your loss, is other developers gain as the same amount of money will still be spent on gaming. Hopefully it bugs you that Apple will still be getting their same 30% as if your games were here or not. The only difference is your 70% will be going to someone else. Cheers and have a nice life.

 

[AndiG]

And then Apple will change back to the old name, right? Apple Computer Inc.

Of course - Tim Cook will be replaced by a younger, smarter and more Nadella like kind of guy first

 

[smithy12]

FYI! Lawers do not make laws. 😂

This is true however good lawyers have a way to manipulate the wording to get something to rule in there favour

 

[njmh]

Stores always take a cut. You sell Fortnite at Walmart, they take a cut. You sell in-app purchases in the App Store, then Apple is totally reasonable to want a cut. If you think you can thrive without the marketplace/middle-man, then by all means sell direct to consumers...but don’t try to have your cake and eat it too, using someone else’s marketplace but bypassing them in sales.

Your analogy doesn't work because in the real world you can build a store, develop a website... even setup a stall on a street corner, if you don't have any luck getting into a retailer or refuse to cowtow to them. There is ample opportunity to skip the middle-man in the real world - not so on iOS.

I'm not necessarily on the side of Epic in this battle as they've been behaving like a bunch of petulant children through all this, but you can't ignore the overall issue that they're fightning against. Apple has created a closed-wall marketplace, which in itself is fine, but because they own the platform and don't allow any alternatives - that's anti-competitive and should be fought.

Remember, Apple wouldn't be where they are today if it weren't for the loyalty and support they received from developers through their failing years in the 90s, or when the iPhone and App Store were in their infancy. Now they've climbed this mountain and gained the upper hand, they're operating with nothing but pure greed.

 

[duervo]

And how, precisely, do they sell directly to consumers on iOS?

I would imagine the same way Amazon can sell Kindle books on iOS. Have their customers use a website with Safari, or Chrome, or Firefox.

Amazon removed the ability to purchase Kindle books directly through the Amazon app ages ago. You have to go through their website with a web browser (or use the website on any other platform with a web browser.)

I don’t believe this is going to turn out the way Epic hopes it will.

 

[WhiteHawk]

Apple is "blocking Fortnite" in order to prevent Epic Games from "passing on the savings from direct payments to players."

That’s hilarious. 😆

 

[dantroline]

I think Apple will flounder in the gaming market, not just because of this App Store debacle but also because it won't allow direct exposure of GPU hardware to developers who want/need bleeding edge capability. No CUDA, no Crossfire, you just have to trust Apple to handle it all for you. This walled garden approach is of course Apple's famous and allegedly successful strategy but in this area, and in machine learning, it may be its downfall.

There's a lot that could be said about the ironies of this case between Apple and Epic, but self censorship precludes me for stating them all here.

 

[nexusrule]

It’s not ended, yet.

EPIC will win, and Apple will have to pay damages later.
Ohh boy this will be expensive for Apple... 🤣
damages for EPIC
damages for antitrust in EU
damages for antitrust in US
plus a few other damages

you really have no idea what you are talking about. The judge working on the case said Fortnite had to remove the update to get back on the store, otherwise Apple would be in the right removing it. Nobody will ever pay damages to follow a judge ruling. And nobody will ever being awarded damages to have broken a legal agreement they have signed willingly like Epic did. This a publicity stunt addressed at weak minded fanboys that don’t get how the adult world work.