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While this lengthy article was written early in EPIC vs Apple debate online here its still has a lot to ponder about.
There is one big problem with this - the coming ARM Macs. Rather than having the App store split between MacOS (laptop/desktop )and iOS (mobile) as it is now it will become one store for three different platforms: mobile, laptop, and desktop. The sting in this is a monopoly is generally in one market and this set up is going to make arguing for a monopoly that much harder. Not that Apple is a monopoly in the mobile space anyhow and Epic claiming Google also has a monopoly in the mobile space makes no sense. A monopoly involves one company and you cannot have two companies being a monopoly in the same market.
 
Epic need to take a look in the mirror. The annoying thing about this all is is the 30% take does seem high considering you don’t have a competing store on iOS. However advertising on your product that the next door store is cheaper is clearly not on. You wouldn’t go into one supermarket and expect to see adverts for another store so that element is stupid. Plus Epic run their own store and have similar rules there on that element. By muddying the waters it could hurt the potentially legitimate case for everyone else.
 
The courts need to rule against Apple. This is some serious antitrust/monopoly BS. If i buy a phone i should be able to do whatever TF i want with it. Apple store shouldn't be the only way you can buy/install apps. But w/e I have no real sympathy for Apple fanbois who have more money than sense. Apple was an overpriced status symbol, now it's just overpriced. You can always get better for less money.
Then go get it. If you have that choice, then why "need the courts rules against Apple"? On the one hand, you are for freedom, yet on the other, you seem to want it taken away if it doesn't fit with your version of freedom.

You come across as a very confused person with a lot of anger.
 
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Up to 1082 comments and still going strong, this thread are indeed epic.
 
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This isn’t a problem. It’s a feature. And the correct way to phrase it is “people are thrilled that the platform prevents scummy producers from harassing them, ripping them off, using dark patterns to trick them, making them call a phone number in asia to try and cancel/correct bills, selling their personal information, tracking them, etc.
These are the upsides of a platform, yes.
 
That must be the reason for all developers abandoning iOS for sideloading on Android instead then, right?
I quoted a real interview with a Developer. Clearly not all Developers are happy. If there is a problem that does not mean you abandon ship (a platform) right away. He also argues that a 30% cut means more Developers change their pricing strategies and move to subscription based Apps. Ever wondered why there are so many subscriptions now? Developer’s greed? It’s not that easy.
 
I quoted a real interview with a Developer. Clearly not all Developers are happy. If there is a problem that does not mean you abandon ship (a platform) right away. He also argues that a 30% cut means more Developers change their pricing strategies and move to subscription based Apps. Ever wondered why there are so many subscriptions now? Developer’s greed? It’s not that easy.
You did indeed, and he does a fair point describing that. It’s a different issue than what EPIC is arguing though.
 
Well i have aon opinoin too, sice here were a lot of stuff that i liked with the 30% cut fot all the other Plattforms which is the same but yes i too see that Epic has to start somwhere and why not with Apple.
If Epic is sooooo Open an Apple is soo bad and anticompetitive ... than why Epic doesent allow directly the Developer to put the game in the App Store so the money doesent do to Epic ? but directly to the People who are working on the game ... and i have a better solution even more, if the game is free which ist is then why to Epic forces mee to BUY a virtual money for a real money ? it could just make it free like it wants apple to do it then everyone ist happy, Apple doesent take 30%, Epic doesent have 70% profit, me as the consumer even more happy i dont have to pay for virtual money that i doesent have anything from it ... so where is the problem ?

Second if Apple is sooo monopolistic and so on, then why there were no Sue on Xbox and PS, they have an Exclusive Titles for years which cannot be playen on other plattforms ... and where they Sued for that ... no they werent, was the EU involved fot anicompetitive behavour ... no they weren sooo why now, ... becas if Apple just lay a stone different or do something soneone can stand up a it takese medias attention in seconds, If epix would sue sony, or ms yes for the 3 days it maybee will be sowehre in the new at teh last place and then everyone just forget about that ... buuut not with Apple this take a looooot of attention, remember Even a Bad Promotin is a Promotion.
 
The courts need to rule against Apple. This is some serious antitrust/monopoly BS. If i buy a phone i should be able to do whatever TF i want with it. Apple store shouldn't be the only way you can buy/install apps. But w/e I have no real sympathy for Apple fanbois who have more money than sense. Apple was an overpriced status symbol, now it's just overpriced. You can always get better for less money.

Why should you be able to do whatever you want with it?

Apple made the hardware. Apple made the software. Apple put the product to market. What entitles you to put any old software on their system?

Do you think it’s a monopoly that you can’t install Mario Kart on a PS4?

Are you going to start a lawsuit because you can’t play Microsoft’s Halo on your Nintendo Switch?

Where will this end? Should we be able to install android on an iPhone? Are Apple a monopoly that we can’t install Windows 10 on our iPads?

It’s never ending.

iPhone is apples product. They design it how they wish. It runs the software they want it to. Just because you feel it should do something doesn’t mean anything. You’re expecting it to be a universal product that it simply isn’t intended to be.
 
Epic need to take a look in the mirror. The annoying thing about this all is is the 30% take does seem high considering you don’t have a competing store on iOS. However advertising on your product that the next door store is cheaper is clearly not on. You wouldn’t go into one supermarket and expect to see adverts for another store so that element is stupid. Plus Epic run their own store and have similar rules there on that element. By muddying the waters it could hurt the potentially legitimate case for everyone else.

Let's also not forget that Epic goes for a exclusive even if the kickstarter promised the game would be on Steam when the developers got their money. That is known as bait and switch and for about anything other then software would be considered illegal (I am still trying to wrap my head the amount of "special snowflake" exceptions to various laws be they labor or trade regulations that the software companies/developers enjoy). Epic didn't offer refunds for Shenmue III out of the goodness of their heart but because they didn't want the FTC and/or Competition Directorate (DG- COMP) come knocking on the author's door for what amounted to bait and switch.

Then there Epic's inability to do something as basic as a shopping cart and then flag people with account fraud when they try to binge purchase. This is stupid because transaction fees are generally a combination of a flat per transaction fee (to ensure the transaction company makes something reasonable off of small purchases) AND a percentage fee (to ensure they make more if the customer is making a larger purchase). This is also why some stores will have a minimum purchase amount for credit/debit cards. If you put about $1 on a card then nearly all of it goes to the credit card company.

Epic is basically shooting itself in the foot with a machine gun doing this as they make less money with this idiocy. And worse for Epic the transaction fees for credit cards are a sliding scale set by risk and banks/companies will jack up the fees for a business that comes off as "unsafe" ie has a lot of fraudulent charges or demonstrates poor fraud protection methods (like flagging perfectly good accounts as fraudulent) which will result in Epic making even less money.

That supposed white knight is in reality Gollem who has gone the way of the novel version Don Quixote ie a danger to themselves and any poor sod who is around.
 
If only Apple stopped interfering with Epic and allowed users to install apps directly. Apple doesn't get to forcefully charge somebody for a service they didn't ask in the first place!
Do you have any idea at all how apps work? Don't pollute this thread with more ignorance.
Apple is enforcing the terms of the contract that Epic chose to enter into with Apple. Epic is free to end its relationship with Apple, as is Apple free to end it with Epic.
Epic can also argue that the terms of the contract are unfair, as they are doing in court. If you want to argue the same here, you (and I) are also free to make your (our) arguments. None of this changes the fact that iOS and the App Store and the iPhone were created and are maintained by Apple, and this means that Apple gets a say in what happens.

Regardless of what you think.
 
Agreed, and, specifically for the ones listed, most work just as well as web applications.

Many work better as web applications than Apps. If it were up to me, any apps which are just a mirror of a website that offers nothing significantly extra in app-form should simply be removed from the App Store.

I have uninstalled a number of Apps from my iPad as they do not allow landscape mode, is not too convenient when your iPad is enclosed in a keyboard case 100% of the time. Their websites are just a mirror of their mobile portait mode sites - lazy ass developers.

The courts need to rule against Apple. This is some serious antitrust/monopoly BS. If i buy a phone i should be able to do whatever TF i want with it. Apple store shouldn't be the only way you can buy/install apps. But w/e I have no real sympathy for Apple fanbois who have more money than sense. Apple was an overpriced status symbol, now it's just overpriced. You can always get better for less money.

If that is true, then apple do not have a monopoly - you have just stated that there are other choices.

An Apple product is a combination of the Software AND hardware designed to work together in order to grant the best user experience to the customer (including the App Store).

Android / Windows etc ... are OS's designed to work across multiple platforms on multiple devices from multiple manufacturers, In the case of Android, being open source the manufacturer can allow (or block!) access to alternative means of software sources e.g. Samsung Store, Huawei store etc ...
 
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That must be the reason for all developers abandoning iOS for sideloading on Android instead then, right?
People have been saying iPhone and Android use totally different (and incompatible) formats for their software which means to sideload the developer would have to totally rewrite their program.

Nevermind in 2011 there were:
  • 200 million iOS devices sold
  • 25 million iPads sold in 14 months
  • 15 billion songs sold in iTunes
  • 130 million books sold in iBooks
  • 425,000 apps, including 90,000 iPad-specific apps, in the App Store
  • 14 billion app downloads from the App Store (in less than 3 years)
  • 225 million accounts in iTunes (all customers for which Apple has credit cards on file so they can purchase apps or content with a single click)
What sane developer/programmer is going to give up that market? More over with the upcoming ARM Mac a mobile developer/programmer has the potential to make money in the desktop/laptop space for even larger market.
 
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I quoted a real interview with a Developer. Clearly not all Developers are happy. If there is a problem that does not mean you abandon ship (a platform) right away. He also argues that a 30% cut means more Developers change their pricing strategies and move to subscription based Apps. Ever wondered why there are so many subscriptions now? Developer’s greed? It’s not that easy.
That 30% cut seems to be standard operating procedure regardless of you using Apple, Google, or Steam so it isn't like Apple is doing anything different from the big players.

Never mind subscriptions (or Live Services as Jim Sterling like to call them) have be come the new bandwagon even with companies that have their own storefront as it is a way for the company to keep making money on the product and as in the case of Fallout 76 it is likely the only thing keeping the game limping along.
 
If the game is free which ist is then why to Epic forces mee to BUY a virtual money for a real money ?

The only reason that I can see for Epic using "Fake Money" for in-game transactions is so people spend more than necessary.

Ever try to buy stuff in-games ? You want to buy an item for lets say 600 space dollars, but guess what .. the minimum buy is 1000 space dollars.

And guess what else, there's nothing availble for that additional 400 that you now have in your space dollar bank account, and no means of doing a reverse exchange, the only way to recoup the 400 is to buy more so you can spend what's remaining.

If they were to charge the customer for ONLY what they want to buy in real money per item they wouldn't make as much.

Thinking about the customer - my arse
 
Poor wording on my part, I didn’t realize it could also be read to mean the opposite of what I’d intended!

I’ve edited the post 🙂
And it actually makes Epic look even more like clueless idiots. :)
If the EC wants to define Apple’s relevant market as “unlicensable smartphone OSes” or “smartphone OSes that begin with the letter ‘I’ ” then I guess things could get interesting.
A company doesn't get to dictate the market. Otherwise Ford could sue Toyota for Toyota having a monopoly on selling Toyota vehicles.

As I pointed out before courts take a very dim view of what amounts to frivolous claims and while they will give the offending party an out if they keep acting like Gollum (ie my precious marketshare :) ) then they will bring out the big guns.
 
Why should you be able to do whatever you want with it?

Apple made the hardware. Apple made the software. Apple put the product to market. What entitles you to put any old software on their system?
Well you see, it's not a very hard concept to understand: When I buy a device, it is mine. I can do whatever the hell I want with it. End of story.
 
Well you see, it's not a very hard concept to understand: When I buy a device, it is mine. I can do whatever the hell I want with it. End of story.

It is a hard concept to understand.

When you buy a fridge do you expect it to work as an oven?

Why are you buying devices and getting upset when they don’t do something they never claimed to do? Something they were never intended to do?

If you buy a Samsung Galaxy do you expect to be able to install iOS on it?

Please elaborate how you expect this to happen. As the entire tech industry says otherwise.
 
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