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If this story is to be believed they went with an older battery design because marketing (aka Phil Schiller) didn't want to miss the holiday shopping season. I doubt it was Apple designers or engineers that decided to skip an Intel generation. That's what bit Apple in the rear end and they're paying for it now.
Indeed.
Basically they could have sold this model about 6 months earlier. I'm pretty sure the battery-testing must have taken some time and discussions... And after the failed testing they finally opted for all the old tech, including the CPU / RAM.

It's still an okay computer iMHO, but simply far too expensive. They are probably trying to win back the money they lost by all that testing etc.

Trouble is, we are hoping for the "one they really wanted to release" to come in 2017. But reading the final comments.... :(
 
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[QUOTE="rebe1, post: 24098200, member: 680160"
I actually would not have bought the 2016 15" if it was 3mm thicker and heavier.[/QUOTE]

LOLOLOLOL.

if 3mm is an issue for you then you should be using just a macbook. I mean think about it, if 3mm is such a huge deal breaker for you in the first place, then you're doing yourself such a great disservice by not getting a macbook.
 
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I wonder if the failed test was fast battery degradation as seen in the rMB featuring thr terraced battery (>20% in under 3 years seems pretty common). No doubt Apple have some accelerated battery stability tests. With the 2015 and 2016 rMB under their belt, what other issues could there have been.

Really doesn't bode well for 2017 - if I had to guess I would say an rMB with Kaby Lake, and new screen/2nd gen keyboard (still no TB3 and one port), iMac which is updated with USB-C and Polaris (no Touchbar/TouchID keyboard - jury's out on Kaby Lake), MBP with Kaby Lake and a 'fixed' battery, iPad Pro 2, iPhone 7s and anniversary edition and probably a 4K Apple TV.

I just hope some of these 'strong product line' products Tim keeps talking about actually see the light of day as 2017 could be the real turning point for Apple where a mixture of being caught by other manufacturers, being out-innovated and over-charging changes their trajectory.
 
I love Apple products but at times I question the vision and direction. Lately they have been falling short and consumers are noticing. I feel like the older products made in 2015 may be their best versions out right now.

iPhone 6S > iPhone 7
MacBook Pro 2015 > MacBook Pro Late 2016
iPad Air 2 > iPad Pros

Dude, the smaller iPad Pro is the best iPad ever by a mile.
iPhone 7 is better then the 6s in every way (unless you're butt hurt headphone jack).
I do agree that the 2015 MBP > 2016 MBP.

P.s I love my AW2 over series 0.
 
Missing the holidays?
They had like 4 years or more to create a completely new design! My 2008 macbook unibody more or less looks the same as their 2015 MBP.

Its very clear its a messy gloop, no bluray support, itunes, new iphone can't connect with new mbp, abandoning current standards, forever creating new iPad sizes and combinations confuses all customers.
 
No it is you who is missing the forest. Apple has immense momentum. Consumers are buying anyway and just rolling with some of the hassles whined about here. For example, how many of those who passionately argued against removal of the headphone jack actually voted with their wallets and refused to buy the iPhone? Instead, they buy and roll with the hassle. Why? Because abandoning a whole ecosystem over any one hassle is more painful than just rolling with it and hoping the company comes to its senses in the next round... or maybe "I" can get used to carrying the dongle... or maybe "I" can get used to Bluetooth, etc. Accumulated goodwill plus this "roll with it" mentality will work for a while.

We have seen this over and over and over again. How many companies carve out very successful businesses, get complacent on sales that keep coming in as they burn goodwill and then shrink when consumers finally give up on them? We here have poked critiques at countless Apple competitors who used to dominate businesses for doing exactly that kind of thing as Apple swept in and ate their lunch. Those companies had roaring revenues. They had record profits. They could lay claims that consumers loved what they were (or were not) doing based on the ongoing flows of cash... until their bases gave up on them due to too many disappointments. Can you name any such companies? Do you really believe that Apple's story can't replicate any of them?

The money argument does not prove the point. It just illustrates ongoing momentum. Momentum doesn't last forever unless the consumer side is regularly fed what it wants too. Too much consumer disappointment and they shift to someone else's products... even if the pain of entire ecosystem change comes with it. We've seen it happen over and over with many other companies.

What's more disturbing within our little niche of consumers is the seemingly recurring trend of Apple rolling out a big product update and "us" Apple fans proclaiming the prior generation superior and, apparently, choosing to buy the prior generation before they sell out. In the last few years, that's happened a few times- this rMB pro, Mac Mini, iPhone, etc. Conceptually, newer (tech) should almost always be obviously superior to it's older "parent." But lately, that obviousness seems challenged.
Exactly.

Apple's current huge succes is due to the brilliance of the past.

Succes trails some years after the introduction of great products. The early adaptors path the way for the masses to follow.
But, the same applies to the failure after complacency. It takes time for the masses to get bored of the new products and actually start switching.

Same story has happened before to Apple. See the successes of Scully. It took a while before the products became really bad enough for people to actually realise that they had to jump ship.
Microsoft had come along with Windows which gave them options.

Apple is really digging out maximum profit for the current lineup:
• Keep current customers in the Apple-ecosystem (via iCloud, App Store, etc.)
• Maximize margins on products
• Seek new markets (like India, Indonesia, etc.)
• Introduce "business-features" (i.e. remote management, deals with Cisco / IBM, Microsoft) for the current consumer-products.

I just wonder how long it will take before current customers become too bored with Apple's lineup and don't want to pay so much for the products...
IMHO, the "alternatives" are still not good enough. But, they are catching up.
 
Anyone else think there's a silver lining in all this? Namely, that the Mac line is NOT under the sway of Sir Jony Ive!

He seems more adept at making pompous, self-congratulatory videos than in designing real-world products (and OSs) that people truly care about or need!

The videos have become spoofs of themselves. The last video, e.g., could have been produced by The Onion... :)
 
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So basically, Tim got wind of this article and sent a preemptive message to reassure employees.


The Wall Street model works for Pepsi, not for Macs. The artist is dead and Pepsi is again in charge.

According to Wall Street rules an old product line that generates ten percent of revenue receives about five percent of R&D until the product is officially killed off.
 
Dude, the smaller iPad Pro is the best iPad ever by a mile.
iPhone 7 is better then the 6s in every way (unless you're butt hurt headphone jack).
I do agree that the 2015 MBP > 2016 MBP.

P.s I love my AW2 over series 0.


Elaborate.

iPhone 6s with no dongles is my argument for 1.
Got the iPad Air 2 32GB for $275 new on Black Friday is my weaker argument for 2. Better value.
 
I am not a Pro user. Before I retired, I used a Mac at work, but it was for typical office stuff....not high-end creative applications. So, I do not directly feel the impact of delayed release of high end Pro machines.

Rather, I am like the vast majority of Apple's customer base that bought their products for work, school and personal use because they are generally well designed, reliable and provide a solid user experience. For consumers like me, the company has been reasonably responsive. After all, we are not pushing the envelop of technology, so the current line-up of computers are probably not limiting the vast majority of Apple consumers.

The dissatisfaction seems to be largely coming from the Pro users that are pushing the envelop and would like next generation machines. This is unfortunate....but here is the rub: While I believe Apple wants to continue to sell computers to keep consumers in their ecosystem, truly Pro level computers are probably a very small fraction of their revenue stream. Computers are only about 10% +/- of revenue, and Pro level machines are probably only a small fraction of that number.

From a purely business perspective (and this is a business), Apple should be more concerned about selling a quality entry level laptop to college students and families to keep them in the ecosystem......and I think they are vulnerable here BTW....Apple needs to offer an updated $1,000 laptop IMO.

Bottom-line: Revenue and profits drive business decisions and resource allocations within a company. Sad but true.
I agree with much of your argument on profits driving products. But this is not the MO that took apple from a garage to a giant. Dongle-gate is a good example of where they are losing their way. There are a lot of people out there who want to buy a new computer that is BETTER than their old computer. That should not included using it for years with piles of adapters. USB-C only, no MagSafe and gimmicky emoji bars are giant flashing warning signs of a much bigger problem.

If Apple was just starting out as a new company, how long do you think they'd last if the 2016 MBP touchbar was their first computer?
[doublepost=1482333997][/doublepost]
And why am I incorrect? There are millions computers and billions of devices aren't going to cease to exists after you received your Macbook Pro. How many device are now sold with USB-C after the macbook released almost one and a half year ago? iPhone is still USB-A...

Of course eventually it will be USB-C, but that will take years.

USB-C and USB-A is not exclusive, they could easily have added one USB-A port and saved the world from a million of new adapters and cables. But that doesn't line their pockets.
You are assuming that USB-C is a sure thing. What will you do with your MacBook if USB 4.0 appears and it works the same as the jump from USB 2.0 to 3.0. No dongles needed because everything is backward compatible. IMHO THAT is an upgrade. Throwing out all my thumb drives and backup drives and/or buying them dongles is a downgrade. Advancements in technology are supposed to make things easier, not some kind of waiting game.
 
The rest of the Bloomberg article is an interesting read, pointing towards the lack of a "singular vision" in Apple's design and engineering departments that leads to product delays and underwhelming reveals. In the end, dozens of Mac hardware managers and engineers are said to have left for different teams, or left Apple entirely, in the past 18 months. "Some were looking for a less all-consuming work environment, while others felt the future of Mac hardware was unclear in a world of iPhones and iPads."
Wow. The state of the Mac is even worse than I thought. Definitely seeming like 90's Apple is making a comeback, and there's no one to save it this time.
 
But a USB-C port can be a USB-A port (actually 5 of the USB 3.1 version of them); but a USB-A port cannot be a USB-C port, period. So, it makes exactly zero cents for Apple to cripple their overall design by adding a less-capable port, just because you can't be bothered to buy a cheapie adapter.

And since 99% of people that want to use a USB-A device will simply go on Amazon and buy one of the dozens of non-Apple choices, how in the blue-blazes does that "line their pockets"???

I think it's time for you to throw another layer of tinfoil on that hat, buddy!
Last year's processor and 'next' year's I/O, and it costs more.....Such a deal!
 
Yet, it continues to sell in record numbers. Huge demand. Curious why so many millions don't see as clearly as you do.

Curious, how billions of flys get it and we don't. **** is actually good!

I do have to add: I just asked for a quote for the macbook pro and they could deliver it almost instantly. I believe that huge demand when I see one of those actually used anywhere.

[doublepost=1482336412][/doublepost]So instead of fixing the battery issues they decided to fail another key test and release a half-finished product with mediocre battery life. Not that it matters with that keyboard.
 
Curious, how billions of flys get it and we don't. **** is actually good!

I do have to add: I just asked for a quote for the macbook pro and they could deliver it almost instantly. I believe that huge demand when I see one of those actually used anywhere.

[doublepost=1482336412][/doublepost]So instead of fixing the battery issues they decided to fail another key test and release a half-finished product with mediocre battery life. Not that it matters with that keyboard.

Ordered a 15" three weeks ago, delivered Monday morning.

The keyboard is actually really nice, I was surprised at how much I like it after reading the belly-aching about it. Never used its predecessor, so the complaints could be valid with the older design of this keyboard, but this keyboard is nice. What I don't like is having to hit escape on the touchbar. That is jarring when using Vim. But I do appreciate one-touch lock for the screen now (no more control, shift, power)

The battery indicator was showing 21 hours of life between 100% and 93% on Monday and Tuesday. That is stupid silly, so something was wrong with it. After update, I now see estimated
7-8 (under Activity Monitor). It was in the ballpark to that on the first run-down of the battery.

I'm coming from a 2009 15" MBP, so this thing is head and shoulders above my 7 year old beast. I also think the screen is better than my work assigned 15" 2015 MBP. Battery life there isn't exactly stellar due to the Parallels Mac management software and other work required software. Off VPN, I am seeing about 7 hours of predicted battery life.

Quality laptops are a solved problem, the innovation is pretty much over for now. It is what it is, and while overpriced, I like the machine. And I don't mind the premium over having to settle for an XPS running Linux. A Windows machine is not going to be on my personal computer, I just don't like it.
 
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Seriously guys, watch one of Steve's keynotes from back in 2001-2003 (maybe it was earlier than that, don't remember). I forget which one, but I watched it recently and he went on a discussion about "Why are we putting in USB?"

USB-C is the future. Get over this ridiculous whining about lack of ports. USB-C provides everything from all previous ports before it. From charging, to data, to video, to chaining. Every other post here is just complaining about USB-C.

Guess what? I have needed dongles forever. Does my 2013 rMBP have ethernet? What about VGA? DVI? Three USB ports which I need?
[doublepost=1482343081][/doublepost]
And why am I incorrect? There are millions computers and billions of devices aren't going to cease to exists after you received your Macbook Pro. How many device are now sold with USB-C after the macbook released almost one and a half year ago? iPhone is still USB-A...

Of course eventually it will be USB-C, but that will take years.

USB-C and USB-A is not exclusive, they could easily have added one USB-A port and saved the world from a million of new adapters and cables. But that doesn't line their pockets.

iPhone has USB-A because the Windows PC environment needs to be able to plug their phones in the computers too. A few people complaining about iPhone not having USB-C is NOTHING compared to millions complaining if iPhone did not have USB-A. I certainly would. Just get a damn adapter.
 
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You can chase that "bigger battery" wish all the way to the point where you have a 10 pound slab. So, where do you draw the line?

Apple did put in FOUR ports people actually use: USB. And the industry will prove them right in about a year, mark my words...
The line has been drawn for several years. 100 W-hr is the FAA battery limit to be allowed on an airplane. Stop pretending like there isn't an obvious target they can hit.
 
Why would a battery design be the driving factor in price point? That doesn't make sense.

Exactly. I guess the price increase has NOTHING to do with the touch bar itself right? Or the P3 panel?
[doublepost=1482343512][/doublepost]
Oh you're absolutely right. Despite the qualms with the new MacBooks, I believe they are still pretty solid prosumer machines.

And I believe that is where Apple have decided their place is. The prosumer market. Good enough power and performance for MOST folks, including those doing video and photo (and maybe some AutoCAD) work. But for those that need the Xeon processors, for those that need a beefy graphics card (and I believe I know there are many, many of those folks out there), for those that need a LOT of RAM, they just aren't Apple's priority. And it's sad. Especially when you look at Apple's roots and how they used to be a company for the professionals. But Apple goes where the money is. It's the truth. They are a consumer / prosumer electronics company.

And to be frank, we'll see how long "prosumer" remains part of their business plan. The bit in the article about Apple wanting to make the Mac more like the iPhone is worrisome.

This changed once the switch to Intel was made. You could always build or buy a better system elsewhere with a better Xeon or whatever you needed. These computers have never came with a Quadro video card which is required in most areas. These were never the "PRO PRO PRO PRO" systems that everybody thinks they were. Real pros like Pixar and others need multiple Quadro cards. Not that stupid AMD 5770 that came with the 2010 Mac Pro when it came out.

And BTW, when the 2010 Mac Pro came out, I could still get a more "pro" system from Dell for cheaper.
[doublepost=1482343709][/doublepost]
How is the current MB Pro future-proofed if/when Thunderbolt 4 comes out in a couple of years? The way to future proof your products is to allow the user to open them up and do upgrades, including the possibility of adding a board that would provide future connectivity.

So don't do anything then? How is it future proofed when I got my GTX 1080 if/when the GTX 1180 comes out?
[doublepost=1482346432][/doublepost]
Missing the holidays?
They had like 4 years or more to create a completely new design! My 2008 macbook unibody more or less looks the same as their 2015 MBP.

Its very clear its a messy gloop, no bluray support, itunes, new iphone can't connect with new mbp, abandoning current standards, forever creating new iPad sizes and combinations confuses all customers.

Who cares about the design? I do not care it the 2030 mac looks the same as the current ones. Why does the design NEED to be changed? Just for fun?
 
I've bought this computer because I needed a new Mac and this is the new Macbook Pro. I couldn't care less about the Touch Bar because as it is, the fixed buttons are the ones I most regularly use. It's a good computer, even if all default specs are on the low end (battery lasts about 7h for general use, memory, sdd, processor). If only the price was about € 300 less, it would be a steal. Now the Apple premium is what you pay for a good OS, a good screen, a free office suite and photo editor, a brilliant track pad, nice keyboard, good speakers, and a very portable device. I do not complain about the ports, never use them much anyway, and my peripherals connect with just one adapter. Maybe I've always been in the MBA segment or just poor.
 
Ordered a 15" three weeks ago, delivered Monday morning.

The keyboard is actually really nice, I was surprised at how much I like it after reading the belly-aching about it. Never used its predecessor, so the complaints could be valid with the older design of this keyboard, but this keyboard is nice. What I don't like is having to hit escape on the touchbar. That is jarring when using Vim. But I do appreciate one-touch lock for the screen now (no more control, shift, power)

The battery indicator was showing 21 hours of life between 100% and 93% on Monday and Tuesday. That is stupid silly, so something was wrong with it. After update, I now see estimated
7-8 (under Activity Monitor). It was in the ballpark to that on the first run-down of the battery.

I'm coming from a 2009 15" MBP, so this thing is head and shoulders above my 7 year old beast. I also think the screen is better than my work assigned 15" 2015 MBP. Battery life there isn't exactly stellar due to the Parallels Mac management software and other work required software. Off VPN, I am seeing about 7 hours of predicted battery life.

Quality laptops are a solved problem, the innovation is pretty much over for now. It is what it is, and while overpriced, I like the machine. And I don't mind the premium over having to settle for an XPS running Linux. A Windows machine is not going to be on my personal computer, I just don't like it.


Red, thanks for the quality, thoughtful objective post. Sad, that that merits noting, but it does.
[doublepost=1482354162][/doublepost]
Curious, how billions of flys get it and we don't. **** is actually good!

I do have to add: I just asked for a quote for the macbook pro and they could deliver it almost instantly. I believe that huge demand when I see one of those actually used anywhere.

[doublepost=1482336412][/doublepost]So instead of fixing the battery issues they decided to fail another key test and release a half-finished product with mediocre battery life. Not that it matters with that keyboard.


Perhaps some sleep and then some careful reflection will enable you to put these two thoughts together so they more effectively troll Apple. As it stands, they are too incoherent to cause the rancor you desire. Good luck and Merry Christmas.
 
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Apple doesn't really care about the Mac. If they cared none of this crap would be happening. Their focus is almost solely on the iPhone as that's what brings the money in. That's rather short-sighted.
I agree, all talk, no action.

My SSD for my iMac is almost ordered, that'll serve me Mac-side for the time being, as for heavy lifting and gaming:

Dedicated Windows 10 PC here I come.

I'm done playing the waiting game, especially when Cook keeps jabbing about pipelines.

Call me when you got something to show, something that isn't yesteryear tech at tomorrow's prices that you'll keep selling for 3 years straight.

Glassed Silver:ios
 
The touch bar is a good example of Cook-era innovation. Appears marvelous on the ads, in person looks like cheap plastic, isn't clear or bright enough, is too small, seems half-baked and no way in hell is worth a $300+ premium.
 
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The touch bar is a good example of Cook-era innovation. Appears marvelous on the ads, in person looks like cheap plastic, isn't clear or bright enough, is too small, seems half-baked and no way in hell is worth a $300+ premium.

According to you. Lots of people have different views on this. It looks great to me.
There is no reason at all to believe that the price premium is solely because of this as compared to the newer better screen, much faster ssd, and touch id. Those all contribute to the higher price its not just the touch bar. Not that I'm really justifying the higher price but it makes no sense to assume its all because of the touchbar.
[doublepost=1482355726][/doublepost]
I agree, all talk, no action.

My SSD for my iMac is almost ordered, that'll serve me Mac-side for the time being, as for heavy lifting and gaming:

Dedicated Windows 10 PC here I come.

I'm done playing the waiting game, especially when Cook keeps jabbing about pipelines.

Call me when you got something to show, something that isn't yesteryear tech at tomorrow's prices that you'll keep selling for 3 years straight.

Glassed Silver:ios

Windows 10. :). I've seen so many Microsoft fans who can't stand it.
[doublepost=1482356359][/doublepost]
Last year's processor and 'next' year's I/O, and it costs more.....Such a deal!

It is well known that Kaby Lake is many months from full production and could not be used in this laptop as a result. A tiny trickle of PC laptops are advertising Kaby Lake but they can't ship many of them.
[doublepost=1482356500][/doublepost]
Wow. The state of the Mac is even worse than I thought. Definitely seeming like 90's Apple is making a comeback, and there's no one to save it this time.

Uninformed and you totally believed the little information contained in this link bait article.
Touch ID
Wide gamut Retina display
Touchbar
USB-C
Better speakers.
Fastest SSD drive by a wide margin over anything else.
[doublepost=1482356567][/doublepost]
Anyone else think there's a silver lining in all this? Namely, that the Mac line is NOT under the sway of Sir Jony Ive!
He seems more adept at making pompous, self-congratulatory videos than in designing real-world products (and OSs) that people truly care about or need!
The videos have become spoofs of themselves. The last video, e.g., could have been produced by The Onion... :)

So you are really unaware that Ive is behind all the designs that have had dramatic success over the last 20 years.
 
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I wonder what name they could use for a proper Macbook Pro now.

- Macbook Pro Pro
- Macbook Pro^2
- Macbook Really Pro

Macbook Pro/E
Macbook Pro/P
Macbook Pro/C
Macbook Pro/G

Engineer, Programmer, Consumer, Gamer
 
Last year's processor and 'next' year's I/O, and it costs more.....Such a deal!
You don't have to like it, but get your facts straight.

It has the current processor that is actually available from Intel. Are they supposed to put in a processor that Intel can't supply?

It has current I/O. Lots of it. ~80GB/s. But go ahead and buy a computer with USB2 or 3. Just know it can't keep up with a modern SSD raid and multiple 5k displays.

You all know your 2011 through 2015 MBPs all have middle of the road CPU and GPU [if any] available at the time right? Because MAC keeps winning on an all around package, not a GHz race.

But the haters refuse to see all the improvements; DISPLAY, SSD, 2133 RAM, jaw dropping I/O bandwidth, awesome trackpad, better cooling that makes it faster under heavy use, quieter, lighter, a great keyboard [that is maybe a love/hate feature]

And for reference its much cheaper than the 2011 13" MBA with 4GB RAM and 256 GB SSD. I remember because the best notebook buying decision I ever made was an i7 MBA for $1799 [maybe $1999? with i7+256 SSD]. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4512/the-2011-macbook-air-specs-and-details
 
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Windows 10. :). I've seen so many Microsoft fans who can't stand it.
I won't use it for general computing, only when I need the beefy power, it'll be plenty good for what I need it for.

Also, last time I checked the later releases of macOS aren't universally received without critique as well, so yeah...

Either way, I already use Windows a lot more these days again, whilst I still prefer macOS in general I just can't be bothered waiting forever until the hardware is adequate again.

It's cheaper to buy a beefy PC and a low-end Mac than one powerful Mac.

And you end up being a lot more flexible.

I come out ahead, I wish one purchase would do it, but Apple doesn't want my money. Joke's on them.

Glassed Silver:ios
 
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